2.2's Instant Ship and Module Transport - Yay or Nay?

[Dbrn47]

How is that not obviously detrimental to gameplay, unless you're a player who wants everything everywhere anyway - in which case, why not just give everyone 100 Bn credits and be done with it?

Because you don't need to be that type of player in order to be fine with instant transfer and the latter isn't even close to being equivalent to this.

 

[Sans Daring]

Oh, I'm aware. Of course 3D printing will make the future look radically different than the ED universe does but then when there is universal 3D printing capability, the entire basis of the ED universe collapses and we don't need cargo pilots.

Oh actually, maybe that's why passengers is coming in this patch because that's the only type of transport that still makes any sense.

Thing with 3dprinting, as soon as you start using that in abudence, it clashes with game logic. The whole notion of the 3d Printing movement is it kills movement. Those parts we transport we don't need to transport anymore. Surely if stations can print ships, they can print components. It's a get-out clause that needs careful handling.

Color me shocked, but it sounds like fun has won again! I know hyperbole is an abundant thing on the internet, especially so in discussion forums, but come on. Seriously? This is what ruins the game for you? This is the hill you're going to make your stand? I'm sure the cost will make it prohibitive to go blinking about willy-nilly, it's just an option that's there for you to use for convenience. To make the game more accessible. I've literally had days where I think "I'd really like to go participate in X" but X is really far away, and I only have a limited amount of time to play. This is really going to open up some possibilities for me and I am quite excited! Don't let the naysayers get you down, developers. You made the right call!

The joke is, the big joke, is that how you paint the situation is as far beyond crazy as the crazy you suggest here. People aren't saying you can't haul ships, but there should be a delay. Not simply for realism, but there has to be a risk/burden for a reward. That's basic video game mechanics. But, and here's the big but, it doesn't actually stop you playing as you would play... now. You're not losing anything at all, just a delay. Just like there's delays throughout Elite and all games. Unless we are at a point when we should click the galaxy screen, choose a place to go, pay the fuel and miss the journey. Elite Manager. The game is changing, and its changing unnecessarily is the problem.

What you want doesn't fit what Elite does. That's what's being said here. You can want it, you may even get it, but it creates a giant concession which changes how people play, the value of the risk/reward system. It's a big deal. And guess what? Elite will be as fun as it is now. If you're playing it now, it's no massive deal, just more inkeeping with the space simulation Elite wants to be.

But you take the trip in a 40+ LY Asp, then summon the 10LY jump ship at the other end. That's not how it should be. There are systems you cannot get to with a small FSD, but now you can, regardless. Also when you get there you can have ANY ship you want instantly available - not just the one you flew there.

How is that not obviously detrimental to gameplay, unless you're a player who wants everything everywhere anyway - in which case, why not just give everyone 100 Bn credits and be done with it?

... and a great example of why this whole thing is just very very messy. Rep.

 

[mossfoot]

Somtimes the journey is as important as the destination, and until now ED and all previous Elites in the series have conformed to that. Now all that matters is getting there asap in your Asp-asp - then you can summon any ship you want - the journey to do the activity becomes irrelevant and the risk/planning/strategy/gameplay involved negated. As someone has already said - you now have a magic ship that can turn in to any other ship you own any time you choose.

All too true.

 

[Lupis]

And arcade/magic mechanics don't equate to a game which some of us want to play.

Oh what a shame. The developers want to do something you don't like. What are you going to do whine on the forum or ignore a completely optional mechanic?

It baffles me how so many seem to forget this is optional! FDev isn't holding a gun to your head whenever you dock at a station saying "transport your ship here matey​"

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

But you take the trip in a 40+ LY Asp, then summon the 10LY jump ship at the other end. That's not how it should be. There are systems you cannot get to with a small FSD, but now you can, regardless. Also when you get there you can have ANY ship you want instantly available - not just the one you flew there.

How is that not obviously detrimental to gameplay, unless you're a player who wants everything everywhere anyway - in which case, why not just give everyone 100 Bn credits and be done with it?

Its not detrimental .. And this is why .. Some of those combat ships may not have been able to get to some systems, and you know THAT fact creates inbalance. It actually balances it out by giving all types of ships the option to get to more systems.

Also lets say you create an uber combat ship that has a very small jump range (less than 5LY say - not sure if thats possible but probably), you are still limiting that ship as not every system has a starport with a shipyard don't forget, which you will need to transfer the shipm as shown in the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs7bYwtnp9s

It really wont make that much of a difference to the game in an overal sense. All it means is people will be able to run tighter controlled builds and get to them to more places, that doesn't create inbalance, it just moves the goalposts that's all.

 

[Kintch]

Well, the next step could be a WoW dungeon finder style LFG tool. Pick a system, pick a content type (CZ, RES), pick the ship you want to fly, press button. 30 seconds later, you are automatically teleported into the CZ/RES and put into a wing with 3 other people who selected the same.

Please stop... that vision is actually scarier than your signature pic!

 

[Mephane]

I recognize the instant gameplay argument but refute it because the scale of the ED galaxy and the requirement to travel through it is a defining characteristic of the game.

This.

The very act of travelling is a core element of ED. So are the different characteristics of the ships, including how well they travel.

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

Oh what a shame. The developers want to do something you don't like. What are you going to do whine on the forum or ignore a completely optional mechanic?

It baffles me how so many seem to forget this is optional! FDev isn't holding a gun to your head whenever you dock at a station saying "transport your ship here matey​"

Don't bother .. you are wasting your time.

 

[Frambitam]

Thing is you have to reach said station to summon said ship. So you still have to do a "long trip" you just don't have to do it multiple times.

you still have trade runs, you have all the res zones, there's still gameplay, tedious ship transporting runs isn't the sole gameplay element here. FDev just now offers an optional mechanic to cut some of the tedium out of moving ships enmass. This mechanic is making me want to come back since i have ships strewn all over the place.

I can't fathom how this has caused so many to be distraught and act like the sky is falling. Open players have thier immersion broken when people go into solo and group to avoid emergent gameplay events like player run blockades. But you lot don't have a hyperbolic crusade about that.

Tedium doesn't not equate to gameplay or fun.

Seriously, how many times? I need that hand clap emoji here. You. Can. Do. All. The. Same. Things. With. A. Time. Delay.

 

[AndyJ]

Interesting that even the moderators seem to detest it. I have seen multiple mod's post against it, exactly one with a post that could even possibly be construed as in favour of instatransfers. If even the house mod's dislike it, shouldn't that be a Clue to certain dev's?

Don't forget that the mods aren't staff but volunteers, and players just like the rest of us, and as such are allowed to have their own opinion (to FD's credit)

 

[Slopey]

Interesting that even the moderators seem to detest it. I have seen multiple mod's post against it, exactly one with a post that could even possibly be construed as in favour of instatransfers. If even the house mod's dislike it, shouldn't that be a Clue to certain dev's?

We're just players too you know. We have no official standing with FD other than we police the forums for bad words and objectionable content, and nothing a moderator says in a personal capacity should ever be taken as being representative of anything to do with FD, unless we've been instructed to pass on specific information.

My mod-hat was off on this topic from the get go, but it's too tedious to type it every time, so please assume for the purposes of this thread that I (and the other mods) are posting in a personal capacity.

(And be nice to each other )

 

[Paramemetic]

There's a lot of really emotional reactions to a very commonsense gameplay decision that prioritizes having fun over arbitrary limitations, and I feel badly for all the people who are upset by this, so I wrote a song



Yesterday all my spaceships seemed so far away
Now it looks as though they're here right away
Oh I believe in yesterday


Suddenly I'm not the pilot I used to be
There's fast travel hanging over me
Oh, yesterday came suddenly


Why there's no delay, I don't know, Sandro please say?
He said it's not fun, now I long for yesterdayyyyy


Yesterday Elite was such an easy game to play
Changing spaceships took all of my time away
Oh I believe in yesterday


Why it's instantly, I don't know, FDev please say?
"Gameplay should be fun" now I long for yesterdayyyy


Yesterday Elite was such an easy game to play
Changing spaceships took up my whole day
Oh I believe in yesterday



Meanwhile, I for one am happy about this turn, because Frontier usually makes horrible decisions that punish people for playing the game, but in this case they seem to be making decisions that enhance gameplay and funhaving. Cheers, Frontier.

 

[Leo Sagan]

Interesting that even the moderators seem to detest it. I have seen multiple mod's post against it

They detest it because they play the game and it doesn't make any sense. There are ways to keep instant transfer without opening HUGE exploits, they have been explained in details in the thread and *STILL* the devs won't even look at them. This is beyond ridiculous, this is suicidal. And I thought they learned their lesson after the CQC debacle that they can't even sell FOR FREE today... How gullible I can be ...

We did a stoopid move ? Yeah but nooooooooooooooooooooooooo : we put ourselves in a hole ? No problem, let's keep digging !

 

[Slopey]

Oh what a shame. The developers want to do something you don't like. What are you going to do whine on the forum or ignore a completely optional mechanic?

It baffles me how so many seem to forget this is optional! FDev isn't holding a gun to your head whenever you dock at a station saying "transport your ship here matey​"

I'm expressing an opinion, as are you. If I don't like it, I won't play it - it's simple. It's up the devs/FD to decide what they want to do, not me, but I'm free to submit my 2p on it on these forums as is everyone else, in a polite and respectful manner.

 

[Lupis]

Meanwhile, I for one am happy about this turn, because Frontier usually makes horrible decisions that punish people for playing the game, but in this case they seem to be making decisions that enhance gameplay and funhaving. Cheers, Frontier.

If i had the game updated i'd post the Gal map showing where all my ships are. This option will make my life easy and i can spend more time actively playing the game instead of trudging to point A to point B slowly bringing my ships back to home base.

 

[Cageman]

None of what has been said explains to me how it removes anything that makes Elite great.

Well.. first of all, one of the greatest things for me with Elite is that things do take time. And, one of the very few games that makes me think ahead, in a strategic way on ship placements etc. I do understand that people who are used to instant things here and there in other games, might find Elite being a hard game.

And, therefore, you should not really play Elite.

But, reality is here and the Developers have chosen to go down a path that supports players that can't play games that forces them to think.

At this point, I am OK with that, as long as those of us who still like the aspect of a real space simulation, can get something out of it.

So, I am asking YOU... would YOU mind, if there were some options to the Instant Transfer... lets say the Instant Transfer is the most expensive way of delivering a ship, while I, who enjoy Elite for what it is / should be; a space simulation game with a 1:1 galaxy, where I hire an NPC pilot to transfer the ship to me in the time it would take me to do it, if I would have done it myself, and therefore pay a hell of a lot less for it?

 

[OriginalBadBoy]

If i had the game updated i'd post the Gal map showing where all my ships are. This option will make my life easy and i can spend more time actively playing the game instead of trudging to point A to point B slowly bringing my ships back to home base.

Ironically thats what everyone will be doing as well as soon as 2.2 drops, even the people who are complaining about it.

 

[Sysmon]

There's a lot of really emotional reactions to a very commonsense gameplay decision that prioritizes having fun over arbitrary limitations, and I feel badly for all the people who are upset by this, so

However, the issue is in how "fun" is defined. It appears to pit the instant gratification crowd against those who like the immersive experience and feeling of size that comes with having to go places and have it take time. The term "punished for playing the game" indicates coming with one expectation and not having it met, then feeling it is somehow the games fault rather than a misconception on the players part.

The last thing this game needs more of is MMO insta-mechanics.

S

 

[Lupis]

I'm expressing an opinion, as are you. If I don't like it, I won't play it - it's simple. It's up the devs/FD to decide what they want to do, not me, but I'm free to submit my 2p on it on these forums as is everyone else, in a polite and respectful manner.

and yet so many aren't. Many are just simply tossing their toys out of their prams.

I still can't fathom how this is bad. This would allow little me who has ships strewn all over the place to gather them at one point, so i can then play the game and not just be jumping all over the place. I did that once when PP started and it took me a day to get my best combat ships to my powers HQ. This would now allow me to make one trip home and bring all those ships back. How is that a bad thing?

 

[Leo Sagan]

If i had the game updated i'd post the Gal map showing where all my ships are. This option will make my life easy and i can spend more time actively playing the game instead of trudging to point A to point B slowly bringing my ships back to home base.

Oh you like ships transfer. Newsflash : we all do !
Now that we're friend, tell me : do you think that having only haulers / asps / condas flying in this galaxy is nice or do yoyu prefer more ships ?