2.3 dev update feedback mega thread

[bitstorm]

I don't know, can they?

If I'm the helmsman I get my normal pips don't I? Otherwise what is to stop me getting some people on in a station and gaining access to those pips and dropping them again? How long do I have access to these extra pips for if someone does drop? what about in a SLF fight? I can only have one AI but 2 people, what if a person drops? Does the SLF autodestuct? Does it just sit there? I'm losing a significant tactical advantage if one of my two fighters drops mid battle etc etc

I think nothing changes for the helmsman, you don't have any extra pips to play with if someone arrives, but the extra player has 1 pip to play with. When they leave there is no extra pip.

SLF? I'd hazard a guess at it just sitting there, but when another crew member arrives they can take it over. I don't know though, something to test in beta.

 

[raymondo the great]

I think nothing changes for the helmsman, you don't have any extra pips to play with if someone arrives, but the extra player has 1 pip to play with. When they leave there is no extra pip.

SLF? I'd hazard a guess at it just sitting there, but when another crew member arrives they can take it over. I don't know though, something to test in beta.

I would guess the same on the pips, but that still leaves you with the possibility of losing those potentially very valuable pips during battle. Probably the same with the SLF though I doubt it would last long enough stationary for someone else to take over lol

Will it be possible for people to say be at a CG, ask if anyone wants to crew up, get some crew, get interdicted and it turns out the crew were communicating with the other ship and after you've engaged thinking you are going to win with your crew they desert you and show up on the other ship? Again leaving you high and dry? Unlikely sure, but I don't think dropouts/leaves mid battle will be unlikely given the nature of the internet and p2p gaming.

Hence IMO the importance of having AI crew who can take over should the connection drop or the player leave so that you don't lose significant advantages mid combat

 

[Ozram]

I would guess the same on the pips, but that still leaves you with the possibility of losing those potentially very valuable pips during battle. Probably the same with the SLF though I doubt it would last long enough stationary for someone else to take over lol

Will it be possible for people to say be at a CG, ask if anyone wants to crew up, get some crew, get interdicted and it turns out the crew were communicating with the other ship and after you've engaged thinking you are going to win with your crew they desert you and show up on the other ship? Again leaving you high and dry? Unlikely sure, but I don't think dropouts/leaves mid battle will be unlikely given the nature of the internet and p2p gaming.

Hence IMO the importance of having AI crew who can take over should the connection drop or the player leave so that you don't lose significant advantages mid combat

Yep. I've been trying to say the same thing.

 

[bitstorm]

I would guess the same on the pips, but that still leaves you with the possibility of losing those potentially very valuable pips during battle.

But as the helmsman you see a drop you readjust. It shouldn't be any issue, good helmsman move power allocation all the time. It's just I don't see why this is an issue.

Will it be possible for people to say be at a CG, ask if anyone wants to crew up, get some crew, get interdicted and it turns out the crew were communicating with the other ship and after you've engaged thinking you are going to win with your crew they desert you and show up on the other ship? Again leaving you high and dry? Unlikely sure, but I don't think dropouts/leaves mid battle will be unlikely given the nature of the internet and p2p gaming.

Hence IMO the importance of having AI crew who can take over should the connection drop or the player leave so that you don't lose significant advantages mid combat

From what I gather it sounds like a random matching service, OR you bring in a friend.

It could happen I suppose, I can't help feeling it's the spectre of the all powerful griefers that (if you believe the forums) ruin everything, but in reality don't.

For folk who think this will be a real issue I'd say invite only friends if you are that concerned. For everyone else, just play and have fun with it.

On significant advantages lost, I dunno, it's just a pip, some weapon recharge rate, or you suddenly turn a little bit slower, I mean just bug out if it's that bad. I just don't think any of this is actually that big of a deal.

 

[Gryphorim]

Much of this has probably been stated before, but some additional roles to consider:

-Flight Engineer, deeper level power/heat management, with shield directional control for combat function. Has combat utility for those ships that are 2 seaters but work best without turrets. Works well with non-com roles as well. Could tie into scientific and mining hardware also.

-Non-combat functions for "gunner" as sensor or telescopic controls. Can see POI from orbit, or enhanced ability to see barnicles/trees/ruins/etc from high altitude.
-Non combat SLF con roles, like limpet control for mining and salvage work, or utility SLF types

-Comms stations that can "phone ahead" to stations prebooking cargo or docking pads, or get station trade info whilst in flight. Can also Send SOS calls and the like for quicker response to interdictions, perhaps even asking for local security escort or extra attention as preventative to interdiction.


I think it's important to allow the owner of a ship to be able to manually control turrets even if flying alone. Also to allow a ship to carry multiple SRVs for all crew to explore together.

 

[raymondo the great]

But as the helmsman you see a drop you readjust. It shouldn't be any issue, good helmsman move power allocation all the time. It's just I don't see why this is an issue.



From what I gather it sounds like a random matching service, OR you bring in a friend.

It could happen I suppose, I can't help feeling it's the spectre of the all powerful griefers that (if you believe the forums) ruin everything, but in reality don't.

For folk who think this will be a real issue I'd say invite only friends if you are that concerned. For everyone else, just play and have fun with it.

On significant advantages lost, I dunno, it's just a pip, some weapon recharge rate, or you suddenly turn a little bit slower, I mean just bug out if it's that bad. I just don't think any of this is actually that big of a deal.

TBH if I'm flying with max to shields and rest to wep on a ship with OC beams an extra pip to wep would make a massive difference, I can't actually fly my OC beam build with 4 pips to shields because otherwise I cant fire my guns! So losing an extra pip my gunner bought mid battle? Yes that would be HUGE

Sure if you've got a bog standard pulse/MC build it's likely not going to be an issue. But for many people they compromise on weapons so they can keep four pips to shields, with a gunner they could pack some more powerful weapons - and yes I do see people building specific ships for multicrew, especially those in tight player groups who regularly play together

Many people equate a fighter to having another huge hardpoint. so a drop/walk could lose you the equiv of 2 huge hardpoints mid fight. How could that not be significant?? Some say its more like a large, but still losing 2 large hps mid fight? Again that's going to be a noticeable drop in "your sides" dps.

Now we don't know if FDev have thought stuff like this through or not, we could say "it's so simple course they have"

But then they implemented engineers without any in game tools for locating your micro materials, components data etc. So assuming that because something is simple it has been considered and solved is IMO a dangerous game to be playing given past experience! I think they are often focused on the "cool" the "fun" the "big picture" that they don't see the small stuff. And the small stuff can cause big problems!

 

[Drink!]

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Talk about playing up your weaknesses...Pips were never fun. They never made ANY sense. I mean...My ship only has the power to use afterburner if I take power away from other stuff?

That's...A poorly built ship. Period. An F22 doesn't have to wait for a recharge to use guns after hitting max thrust. It's just unforgivable levels of stupidity. And now, they want to bill it as something of a FEATURE? Pips should have allowed LONGER use of stuff...Not determined it's availability...Good god.

How's Star Citizen coming along, again? It No Man's Sky? Least it has stuff to find when Exploring...And ships with adequate power plants...

Power management kind of comes from Syfy shows like Star Trek or Star Wars. Like the captain asking for more power to shields, we can do the same. Some would say, why not just always have shields at max all the time....that's not fun and exciting or "safe". This aspect of the game is not a sim, just arcadey, but it adds a level skill needed to play/do well. In real life, a spaceship with shields..."could" work like that. The same way giving more power to an electromagnet will make the magnetic force stronger.

Also in an F22, what makes the guns work is unrelated from what make thrust work. That like saying you have to turn down your radio to drive faster.....

 

[raymondo the great]

Power management kind of comes from Syfy shows like Star Trek or Star Wars. Like the captain asking for more power to shields, we can do the same. Some would say, why not just always have shields at max all the time....that's not fun and exciting or "safe". This aspect of the game is not a sim, just arcadey, but it adds a level skill needed to play/do well. In real life, a spaceship with shields..."could" work like that. The same way giving more power to an electromagnet will make the magnetic force stronger.

Also in an F22, what makes the guns work is unrelated from what make thrust work. That like saying you have to turn down your radio to drive faster.....

Well turning that radio off will improve your MPG lol

On a serious note it reminds me of current F1 cars. They don't carry enough petrol to run flat out for a full race. Why not? Because doing so actually slows them down! They take the absolute minimum "power" they can get away with. Because it reduces the mass to the point it makes them faster.

Sure in space it's different, the ship has x power, y of it is used for running things you cant turn off, the rest can be divided as you will. Why does the ship not have a bigger power plant? Because it would be too big? and the point is that if you skimp so you can't power everything 100% you get better performance than if you made it bigger to power everything, and it's cheaper. You don't always need full power to all systems so why "pay" for power you don't need? Now if we got to this situation because we slapped bigger guns on the ships than they were designed for, or bigger engines or shields who knows.

But also remember many of the ships we fly are very old designs, just with some updated components. Perfectly reasonable that the new components are more power hungry but that there just isn't the space to power them all.

TBH it's not something I've ever thought about till now, because it was this way when I bought the game and my brain never said "that's odd, it doesn't make sense, it's not immersive, its not fun" etc. Its a very simple mechanic that for me makes combat far more interesting than if I just always have the equiv of 4 pips in every system!

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another thought I've just had on implications.

Do you have to have turrets to have a gunner? If not then can you just get a gunner to give you an extra pip, they go AFK and watch a movie while you earn extra in a res by being able to shoot more stuff due to more wep power and they earn money for nothing? (Credit transfer)

Heck even if you need a turret, I'd sacrifice 1 small turret not being used on my conda for an extra pip to weapons! and the AFKer gets money for nothing.

Or will they build in systems to stop this happening?

 

[cluelessforumuser65578]

The gunner role allows a crewmember to take control of all turreted weapons on the ship. They do not need to jump between turret views though. Using a third person interface, they control a reticule that all turrets within their arc will automatically follow; giving them improved spatial awareness and easy control of all turreted weapons. They also have access to two “quick slot” fire buttons, in addition to normal fire groups, that they can customize with modules, allowing them more options for activating weapons and scanners.

Furthermore, the gunner has access to advanced sensor systems, allowing them three hundred and sixty degree tracking arcs. This lets them activate advanced scanners (such as the kill warrant scanner) and missile launchers in any direction.

this sounds awfully like a proper 3rd person cam that ive wanted since i got the game. all i want to know is, as someone who will never entertain other people on my ship will i be able to use this awesome sounding feature?

 

[bitstorm]

TBH if I'm flying with max to shields and rest to wep on a ship with OC beams an extra pip to wep would make a massive difference, I can't actually fly my OC beam build with 4 pips to shields because otherwise I cant fire my guns! So losing an extra pip my gunner bought mid battle? Yes that would be HUGE

Sure if you've got a bog standard pulse/MC build it's likely not going to be an issue. But for many people they compromise on weapons so they can keep four pips to shields, with a gunner they could pack some more powerful weapons - and yes I do see people building specific ships for multicrew, especially those in tight player groups who regularly play together

Many people equate a fighter to having another huge hardpoint. so a drop/walk could lose you the equiv of 2 huge hardpoints mid fight. How could that not be significant?? Some say its more like a large, but still losing 2 large hps mid fight? Again that's going to be a noticeable drop in "your sides" dps.

Now we don't know if FDev have thought stuff like this through or not, we could say "it's so simple course they have"

In all honesty I think they'd take the common sense approach, and see that it's not really any sort of issue.

I mean with this sort of "issue" how on earth do wings work, where a player could drop at any moment resulting in a significant drop in power.

How have people "coped"? Do you think this has been a serious issue for the game or, given wings have been in a long time now, is it actually a bit of a non-issue.

I would also say if a CMDR is worried about the loss of pips due to a drop, they should probably go in the game and practice moving pips around.

 

[Sterling MH]

And aside from the instant drop in drop out, to which there is no possible explanation for,

I personally have given several. Why am I so much more capable at immersion than you?

so I wish people would just stop trying,

It is possible to explain, just impossible to make you listen or accept it, because you just want to scream and shout about it. What you mean is you want people to stop trying to make you happy.

Wilco.

 

[PyrateLV]

My fear is that Elite Dangerous is going to become an Actiony Arcade Lobby Game (Space MOBA) to appease the Insta-Gratification Pew-Pew Console Kiddies. While the Open World aspects are being phased out or left to collect dust and rot

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

In all honesty I think they'd take the common sense approach, and see that it's not really any sort of issue.

I mean with this sort of "issue" how on earth do wings work, where a player could drop at any moment resulting in a significant drop in power.

How have people "coped"? Do you think this has been a serious issue for the game or, given wings have been in a long time now, is it actually a bit of a non-issue.

I would also say if a CMDR is worried about the loss of pips due to a drop, they should probably go in the game and practice moving pips around.

This.

Have no idea just how safe ray likes to play but it sounds ridiculous.

Does he high wake out if one of his weapons gets damaged too?

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My fear is that Elite Dangerous is going to become an Actiony Arcade Lobby Game (Space MOBA) to appease the Insta-Gratification Pew-Pew Console Kiddies and the Open World aspects are being phased out.

2 years too late for that speculation bud.

 

[Sterling MH]

This explains and rationalizes the game and design choices nicely, and makes things convenient for those who would rather ED was an arcade game (whether they admit it or not).

And whether your assertion over someone else's mind's content is correct or not.

To those like me who want more of a feel I'M IN SPACE!, The whole concept comes across as shallow and pointless to play.

So don't.

If making a game you will play is going to be such mental torture for the developers, they have no winning move, whatever they make will be stretched to insanity if it's not exactly what you want. And then there's someoen else wanting something different. And neither of you two will get together to hash this out and compromise, you both scream and shout and go "NOT PLAYING!!" at the devs.

If this tiny thing THAT YOU MADE UP YOURSELF makes you think the game not worth playing - Don't.

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Don't forget proper, or more traditional, camera controls, rather than feeling like we're flying another ship around our ship

That's an important thing to remember when it comes to "space legs". They already have the class hierarchy set for "Ship" as the base class that moves, hence a movable camera is a non-body instance of a ship and you are its pilot to get the camera view. Other base casses like "Object" don't move, so won't work with a moving cam.

Likewise when it comes to "you" in the game, you're probably a component of "Ship", hence you are your ship in Elite.

And for space legs, you have to become a new human-sized "ship" or they need to write an entirely new class for "people" and a new (FPS) engine to move that "people" around. Or put you in an EVA suit which becomes a 2m tall,partially articulated ship.

 

[Sterling MH]

Talk about playing up your weaknesses...Pips were never fun. They never made ANY sense. I mean...My ship only has the power to use afterburner if I take power away from other stuff?

That's...A poorly built ship. Period. An F22 doesn't have to wait for a recharge to use guns after hitting max thrust. It's just unforgivable levels of stupidity.

All the ship systems are paid out of power. You have a 10A ring circuit. Put without power routing 3 3A draw devices, and you're golden, but if you put another on, the lights go out entirely. With power, you can pass all you like on to 2 devices and a max of 4A to any others, and when you put the second 3A device on, only it's power-shared pair goes out, not the entire system.

Your capacitors are recharged from the same power that fires your boost: the fusion engine.

Since to extract power from your powerplant will cool it, you need some reserve to boost with. And to direct more of the vented plasma in your reaction engines requires more energy in the controlling magnetic fields that stop the plasma deviating from the open path to the material of your craft and melting your ship. The magnetic fields have more work to do to boost.

So if you have too much draw on other power systems, you don't have a hot enough plasma to eject at higher velocity (Boltman's law and equipartition of energy), and no spare energy to direct this greater momentum where needed, you can't boost.

And, clearly, if your lasers draw all the energy from the capacitor, that capacitor can only recharge from the energy your distributor has assigned to it.

How many times does this have to be done for you?

Use your own imagination!

 

[raymondo the great]

In all honesty I think they'd take the common sense approach, and see that it's not really any sort of issue.

I mean with this sort of "issue" how on earth do wings work, where a player could drop at any moment resulting in a significant drop in power.

How have people "coped"? Do you think this has been a serious issue for the game or, given wings have been in a long time now, is it actually a bit of a non-issue.

I would also say if a CMDR is worried about the loss of pips due to a drop, they should probably go in the game and practice moving pips around.

If a wingman drops my own ships stats aren't affected.

Like I said if I design my ship to run with 4 to shields and need an extra to weapons from the gunner to run them dropping will massively reduce my ship viability. No moving around of pips is going to change that.

I doubt it will be an issue for most people. But I'm sure it will prove to be an issue for some

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My fear is that Elite Dangerous is going to become an Actiony Arcade Lobby Game (Space MOBA) to appease the Insta-Gratification Pew-Pew Console Kiddies. While the Open World aspects are being phased out or left to collect dust and rot

I do wonder how the whole lobby thing will work..... what am I doing before I get in your ship? Do I need to be docked somewhere for example waiting at a screen? if not what happens if I get interdicted? Joining friends won't be a problem as I can ensure my ship is "safe" but if I want random jump in jump out? I will be interested to see what they come up with, and hope that its good enough they could use it for queuing for CQC too!

 

[Gryphorim]

RE: the telepresence or live crew instant drop in from anywhere vs boarding at same station, my suggestion is to allow both, each with different degrees of risk vs reward. If you board, higher reward percentage, but if you leave ship anywhere other than when it is docked, you forfiet any and all credits, rep, etc gained while being on that ship. If you use telepresence to instantly jump in from elsewhere, your avatar is a hologram, and you only gain some percentage of earnings, but you can opt out at any time.

Another minor issue I'd like to see addressed, is the poor placement of turrets on a range of ships that have 2 or more seats. Namely Asps, Cobras, Type7s, Orca and maybe the Fed Dropship/Gunship. Most of these have no rear firing arc, and if you have a gunner flying with you, the rear arc is typically what they'd be protecting.
My suggestion: Turret mounting packages, armed with a pair of class 1s, like an SLF, that can be stowed very tightly against the hull like an SRVs turret. They bolt onto the ship like a shipkit, and deploy only when a gunner deploys them. Typically rear facing, but some ships might gain dorsal mounts as well. Range of weapon options would resemble those on SLFs. For balance purposes, fitting a turret takes up the extra pip gained from having the extra crew.

 

[Ghost1]

My fear is that Elite Dangerous is going to become an Actiony Arcade Lobby Game (Space MOBA) to appease the Insta-Gratification Pew-Pew Console Kiddies. While the Open World aspects are being phased out or left to collect dust and rot

you should be more worried about the people complaining about how much "realism" need to be inserted into it ruining good ideas an limiting the experience
for newer players, thats the main problem right now. People were already super mad when they took out the detailed planets because the forums when on a crying fest of about "realism"
in a sci-fi game. It becoming way less of a sci-fi game an more of a DCS world is my fear. Besides it's already looking that way with people crying about instant drop into ships being add in,
if it gets removed its really gonna be annoying

 

[DAOWAce]

No idea if this has been discussed because this thread has over 1,300 posts.. but I just want to say:

I hope we can transfer ourselves TO other ships we have in storage alongside being able to bring them to us. I was going to have certain ships docked at certain stations for doing specific things (ie; mining, mission running, etc.), but then realized in order to get back to my other ships I'd have to fly there anyway.. as if I transferred them it would take 20x longer than if I just flew to them myself and I would be paying out the bum for it.

I'd rather have the ability to transfer myself to a docked ship than the other way around. Y'know, shuttling!


Other than that, I do hope multi-crew with AI will come in the future. I've got no friends who play this game so multi-crew would be one feature I never get to experience.

 

[Sterling MH]

No idea if this has been discussed because this thread has over 1,300 posts.. but I just want to say:

I hope we can transfer ourselves TO other ships we have in storage alongside being able to bring them to us. I was going to have certain ships docked at certain stations for doing specific things (ie; mining, mission running, etc.), but then realized in order to get back to my other ships I'd have to fly there anyway.. as if I transferred them it would take 20x longer than if I just flew to them myself and I would be paying out the bum for it.

I'd rather have the ability to transfer myself to a docked ship than the other way around. Y'know, shuttling!


Other than that, I do hope multi-crew with AI will come in the future. I've got no friends who play this game so multi-crew would be one feature I never get to experience.

It's been asked, but that's no different from before. The ship teleport is the same as instant (and free this time) ship ferries, and that's 70% NO. AI multicrew is another no because if you didn't need anyone else, then there'd be no point to multi-crew. It's a team multiplayer mechanic. Don't demand it be for non-teams, that's not what it was written to do.

Those of us who want NPC wingmen are satisfied if it's just behinds in the cockpit, dummies not moving and adding nothing more than a seat cover to stop it feeling so lonely in the big ship cabins. But so many people want them to do "something" like the players add in multi-crew just means that adding manikins as set dressing, enough for most of us, is conflated with making them give us perks and that means the idea we'd put up with is dropped.