Because we also don't have players drifting through space in their escape pods for weeks after having been shot down. If you think this is a huge departure from immersion, then you should complain about the instant respawn at the last station you were at, which can be tens of thousands of lightyears away, as it's implemented since day one.
News 2.3 Dev Update
- Thread starter Edward Lewis
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Because we also don't have players drifting through space in their escape pods for weeks after having been shot down. If you think this is a huge departure from immersion, then you should complain about the instant respawn at the last station you were at, which can be tens of thousands of lightyears away, as it's implemented since day one.
I think the obvious thing that should have happened is
1. Make npc crews much cheaper. They get a salary thats it. 100 cr a day!
2. Require you to have an npc that is taken over by a human. Indeed why not like elite3 insist you have npc crew on big ships when using turrets?
This would be logically consistent and still fun game mechanics. So i have two fighters can launch them both but have two humans take over if i want. Currently a single player is massively disadvantaged (as max one fighter)
1. Make npc crews much cheaper. They get a salary thats it. 100 cr a day!
2. Require you to have an npc that is taken over by a human. Indeed why not like elite3 insist you have npc crew on big ships when using turrets?
This would be logically consistent and still fun game mechanics. So i have two fighters can launch them both but have two humans take over if i want. Currently a single player is massively disadvantaged (as max one fighter)
You can't please everybody. (Don't really care about "magic transports" it's a game, use your imagination!)
Personally I am really excited about this update. I can finally invite the family aboard my Anaconda
Personally I am really excited about this update. I can finally invite the family aboard my Anaconda
I'm excited by it too, especially the avatar creator for some reason. Doesn't mean there aren't good (both well intended and very probably improving) reasons to push Frontier, to keep as much consistency in the game as possible though. I'd have thought a 'crew-member log in' (CQC Arena type new product, aka. revenue stream) would make ears stand up.
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I'm skeptical, I do like some immersion to the game, but at the same time it has to be practical. They made some tweaks to ship transfer during the last beta, so I'm sure they'll be open to adjustments again.
I'm happy to keep an open mind and see how the beeta plays (yes it's beeta. not bayta)
I'm happy to keep an open mind and see how the beeta plays (yes it's beeta. not bayta)
Yes, and two different characters, one for our own ship and one for a crew member for boarding other vessels. Two separate realities so to speak.
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Deleted member 38366
D
The more I think about the "Easy Access" in terms of Gameplay idea behind Crew Member Teleportation, the more I dislike the idea.
1) Ship Transfer :
- was initially envisioned to be instant
- luckily, realism wasn't thrown out of the Window in favor of "Easy Access" and eventually realistic factors were included. Still, it turned out to be a darn useful feature.
2) NPC Crews :
- I forgot to pick up and assign one of my NPCs to my SLF? Well, I have to turn back and pick it up then. Silly me!
- "not onboard" means just that : not onboard
- easy fix : dock and correct the issue, next time plan my departure procedure a bit better if I want my NPC Crew to be on the Ship
3) I'm just imagining these Conversations amongst Players :
Player A (Home System : Colonia) : Hey B, you wanna get a scenic tour of Colonia?
Player B (Home System : SOL) : Why sure, never been there! It's way too far away for my taste. Hang on, I'll be with you in a Second
Player X (Combat CG System) : Eh, I could use a hand in the CG, I keep almost getting it handed there a few minutes in. Would you mind helping out?
Plater Z (current Location SPHUQOU Sector WT-I D9-7) : I'm 46k out and haven't done Combat in months! You sure about this?
Player X : Don't worry, I'm all Gimbals anyway. Just need 1 more Pip for Shields. Just relax and enjoy the Show. You can take the SLF for a spin if you like thou xD
Player Z : Haha okay then, just gimme 30 sec to scan that ELW, will be right with you.
Player G : Hey guys, wanna gank a few Xplorers @ Ancient ruins?
Player R : *lol* sure, where you at?
Player Q : Only if you got good guns!
Player G : @R 1st site, at least 3 n00bs parked down there, easy meat. @Q 4x G5 Turrets, Thermal Beams & OC Cannons - you better aim well xD
Player R : lets rock!
Player Q : only got 45min, but lets wipe dem n00bs!
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IMHO : ELITE has been called alot of things so far - but Easy Access has never been amongst the descriptions.
For that, there's plenty of Smartphone and Casual Games.
Hence : Space is big - and it should remain big.
No handwavium CMDR Teleportation.
Want to crew up? Then gather your Players at a Station, Planetary Base or Outpost and head out. As in : do your bit of homework & minimal coordination and prepare your Ship accordingly.
1) Ship Transfer :
- was initially envisioned to be instant
- luckily, realism wasn't thrown out of the Window in favor of "Easy Access" and eventually realistic factors were included. Still, it turned out to be a darn useful feature.
2) NPC Crews :
- I forgot to pick up and assign one of my NPCs to my SLF? Well, I have to turn back and pick it up then. Silly me!
- "not onboard" means just that : not onboard
- easy fix : dock and correct the issue, next time plan my departure procedure a bit better if I want my NPC Crew to be on the Ship
3) I'm just imagining these Conversations amongst Players :
Player A (Home System : Colonia) : Hey B, you wanna get a scenic tour of Colonia?
Player B (Home System : SOL) : Why sure, never been there! It's way too far away for my taste. Hang on, I'll be with you in a Second
Player X (Combat CG System) : Eh, I could use a hand in the CG, I keep almost getting it handed there a few minutes in. Would you mind helping out?
Plater Z (current Location SPHUQOU Sector WT-I D9-7) : I'm 46k out and haven't done Combat in months! You sure about this?
Player X : Don't worry, I'm all Gimbals anyway. Just need 1 more Pip for Shields. Just relax and enjoy the Show. You can take the SLF for a spin if you like thou xD
Player Z : Haha okay then, just gimme 30 sec to scan that ELW, will be right with you.
Player G : Hey guys, wanna gank a few Xplorers @ Ancient ruins?
Player R : *lol* sure, where you at?
Player Q : Only if you got good guns!
Player G : @R 1st site, at least 3 n00bs parked down there, easy meat. @Q 4x G5 Turrets, Thermal Beams & OC Cannons - you better aim well xD
Player R : lets rock!
Player Q : only got 45min, but lets wipe dem n00bs!
-----------------
IMHO : ELITE has been called alot of things so far - but Easy Access has never been amongst the descriptions.
For that, there's plenty of Smartphone and Casual Games.
Hence : Space is big - and it should remain big.
No handwavium CMDR Teleportation.
Want to crew up? Then gather your Players at a Station, Planetary Base or Outpost and head out. As in : do your bit of homework & minimal coordination and prepare your Ship accordingly.
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Agree. Instant multicrew gameplay separated from long term CMDR character multicrew (which could require actual meeting in-game).
I don't see why both solutions cannot work in tandem with eachother. telepresence is a good way to make people engage. While being picked-up at station can work when Space legs are introduced, there is no reason to demand that everyone conform to a certain playstyle, especially in the name of "realism" or authenticity, because if that's the case then there is a whole can of inconsistencies that should be worked through also.
I hope that the instant telepresence thing is going to be kept but is restricted in the sense that it is a person sitting in front of a screen. This can even be expanded upon ONCE space legs are going to be released. But for now? There is absolutely no reason to have such a system for the sake of realism, because there are so many other instances, where gameplay supersedes immersion.
Rather have both systems in place, when it makes sense to implement them both.
I hope that the instant telepresence thing is going to be kept but is restricted in the sense that it is a person sitting in front of a screen. This can even be expanded upon ONCE space legs are going to be released. But for now? There is absolutely no reason to have such a system for the sake of realism, because there are so many other instances, where gameplay supersedes immersion.
Rather have both systems in place, when it makes sense to implement them both.
How about a compromise. The potential crewmember travels to the nearest station equipped with a Telepresence Terminal (new feature suggestion there!) hops into the booth and can then be a crew member
Either that or Professor Palin needs to invent Transwarp Beaming lol.
Okay you've convinced me you have to dock / land at the same station / base as the owner of the ship you are going to board. [up]
Did you have to go through such a lengthy RP to explain it though? [woah]
Exactly. Just let me add: you could also star multicrewing docking in your friend's ship with SLF, or with SRV on planet surface, no need to be at a station (but obviously need to meet). That way explorers could also multicrew. Just met another explorer thousands of LY away from bubble and spent a couple days exploring together: multicrew travel, shared scanning/planetary mineral search, ...
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It seems "I want insta naow pewpew" people are not considering those scenarios, which are just the situations also I am fearing could happen.
Agree with you. From the ED website "Take control of your own starship in an evolving, connected, cutthroat galaxy." For me it would be ridiculous from this premise to 'log out' of your starship (see the OP). You 'leave it', via airlock, hopefully taking the keys .. with you.
I don't mind one bit if it comes in stages. For instance for crew network testing, it's definitely convenient to put you in the cockpit by telepresence (as well as being fun to play with your friends right away, and which is also where the extension of a second commander log-in idea comes from). For me that's all fine as long as it's OBVIOUSLY telepresence for now.
BECAUSE consistency (big galaxy, even with added convenience) can I think only viably come later if Frontier don't blow their wad now, by making it so convenient, it's a real downer for everyone to return to any kind of consistent state at a later date.
Just stick "telepresence active" across the top of the screen, as a HUD watermark, while crewing? (That's 'if necessary' for a quick fix, we don't know how it will look of course but telepresence isn't obvious to me in SLF). Or at least stress telepresence in every press release on the subject? A watermark might ruin a few screen shots but it keeps things consistent, and ppl can still play with their friends in an instant and convenient way while the game goes forward in development (and the Thargs work on a way to disrupt telepresence, which may be hackable by opposing navies, or a perceived threat to the alien hive mind etc.)
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There are two groups of players.
First group is against instant-teleportation. Second one is supporting it.
I do not want to say which opinion is better. It already discussed in details, with many good (and not so good) reasons and details to support each approach.
I suggest “hybrid solution” which allows both variants with their pros/cons.
Telepresence.
One CMDR can instantly take available slot in another’s ship, but with some limitations. I am against unlimited distance, but like with many other things, FD is set to make it this way and nothing can change that.
Only original functions are available (same as if ship flown by one person). No new capabilities (such as 360 view or advanced pip management) at all. No CMDR’s avatar in ship. Limited credits and rank progression.
Limited consequences of ship’s destruction and/or crimes for “distant” players.
Physical presence on a ship.
Need to be in same station to board ship. Full “advanced” functionality.
If ship’s owner disconnects return to your ship (on station where you boarded) OR even remain in control of current ship in absence of the owner. Access to 360 view, advanced pip management and so on. Presence of CMDR’s avatar on the bridge. Full rank progression and credits (shared, not added on top).
Full consequences (including of 50/33% of ship’s insurance cost).
So there are two options.
You either a remote observer with limited access to non-critical functions OR full-time crew member who share both benefits AND responsibilities.
First group is against instant-teleportation. Second one is supporting it.
I do not want to say which opinion is better. It already discussed in details, with many good (and not so good) reasons and details to support each approach.
I suggest “hybrid solution” which allows both variants with their pros/cons.
Telepresence.
One CMDR can instantly take available slot in another’s ship, but with some limitations. I am against unlimited distance, but like with many other things, FD is set to make it this way and nothing can change that.
Only original functions are available (same as if ship flown by one person). No new capabilities (such as 360 view or advanced pip management) at all. No CMDR’s avatar in ship. Limited credits and rank progression.
Limited consequences of ship’s destruction and/or crimes for “distant” players.
Physical presence on a ship.
Need to be in same station to board ship. Full “advanced” functionality.
If ship’s owner disconnects return to your ship (on station where you boarded) OR even remain in control of current ship in absence of the owner. Access to 360 view, advanced pip management and so on. Presence of CMDR’s avatar on the bridge. Full rank progression and credits (shared, not added on top).
Full consequences (including of 50/33% of ship’s insurance cost).
So there are two options.
You either a remote observer with limited access to non-critical functions OR full-time crew member who share both benefits AND responsibilities.
This is exactly the problem. Easy Access and magic-teleportation is Trump of this game...
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How about a compromise. The potential crewmember travels to the nearest station equipped with a Telepresence Terminal (new feature suggestion there!) hops into the booth and can then be a crew member
Either that or Professor Palin needs to invent Transwarp Beaming lol.
Doesn't work - otherwise why can't I hand in my exploration data/bountyvouchers from anywhere, as long as the station has one of these terminals?
I totally agree. A feature that I was really looking forward to seems cheapened to the nth degree for convenience, and for who? Those picking up the game for a quick 20 minute burst and want the instant gratification of being able to group with friends? I group with friends most nights, we will meet up in a system, form a wing, contribute towards a CG, farm some RES sites, assist with mining etc., all good fun. Now multi-crew is announced and some ridiculous handwavium nonsense is suggested to explain how 'Geoff' on the other side of the galaxy can instantly appear alongside me.
I don't know about anyone else, but friends that I game with in Elite are generally close by, it's no great hardship for any of us to meet up at the same system. Plus, I don't group up with 'Geoff' for the same reasons I don't invite him into a wing .. he's on the other side of the galaxy and I'm not gaming with him anyway, not a big loss. Again, which audience is this catering for? It seems to be rather console-centric and by that I mean 'quick pick up and play', Elite Dangerous though has never been that type of game, CQC however is a perfect fit for that kind of fun.
Then you have the 'Open ship invite'. Really? Who on earth is allowing some complete random to just jump aboard their ship. "Ah, you're leaving an Orbis station, I'll man those turrets for you .." and for a laugh shoots at the station and/or police and then quickly decides to leave, picking the 'no penalty, no profit' option. It sounds like a crazy addition and doesn't seem like the right fit for Elite Dangerous.
Personally I cannot believe that this telepresence nonsense got beyond a passing thought before being instantly dismissed. Surely it cannot be that much of a hardship for friends wishing to multi-crew to agree to meet in the same system? You guys and gals at Frontier have so far come up with some very sound ideas to explain the features and mechanics that currently exist in the game, whilst considering the fact that it IS a game and therefore has to be fun. Please do not undo the balanced gameplay rules you've already implemented with this 'Cmdr Appearo' nonsense, at least make it a requirement that friends have to meet up and in turn, dropped back off at the station where their ships are parked. This would at least give some physicality to this new multi-crew addition and imho, sit well with the rules that you currently have in place.
All these it will break my immersion people, can play that way. Want a friend in your ship go meet them. For the rest of us, let it be instant, and your good to go. Sorry but this is a feature meant to be used and made FUN. yes FUN is the real immersion for any game, because if it isn't fun why play what is after all called a game?
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Keep it instant, anywhere, anytime, and any place (location). Remember those playing solo will never use this feature, those in Mobius will never use it to grief another player, so open is the only place where this could possibly (and lets face it, if your going to grief others, you do not need this feature to do it). If your in open and want to join up with a friend out 30,000 light years or more, well go join them and have fun. want to see the ruins and a friend is there. Join them, have FUN.
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All these people wanting a delay or a station to use it? Then play that way and let the rest of us enjoy it instantly.
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Calebe
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Keep it instant, anywhere, anytime, and any place (location). Remember those playing solo will never use this feature, those in Mobius will never use it to grief another player, so open is the only place where this could possibly (and lets face it, if your going to grief others, you do not need this feature to do it). If your in open and want to join up with a friend out 30,000 light years or more, well go join them and have fun. want to see the ruins and a friend is there. Join them, have FUN.
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All these people wanting a delay or a station to use it? Then play that way and let the rest of us enjoy it instantly.
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Calebe
Easy "It's station policy not to accept such items via Telepresence"
ED can work in many ways, we see few people complaining that when your ship blows up, that your materials and data are miraculously retained!