News 2.3 Dev Update

[Paramemetic]

Funny, just did this exact thing over the weekend. Teamed up for some group system scouting 1,000 LY north of Colonia. We found the system we were looking for, then began a group search for the iron magma volcanism that exists there. Found it.... and began racing around like lunatics. No shooting. No scooping. Plenty of fun.

Repeated the process a few days ago. Four people group searching for water geysers. Found a great site, and had a lot of fun racing around in SLFs and SRVs. I've mapped three new SRV courses in a week's time and am loving (most) every minute of it (POI bugs notwithstanding). And again: no shooting, no scooping.

Know what would have made it better? If I could have told my wingmate Jonuss (who blows up EVERYTHING) "No, don't go back to the station for more SRVs. Jump in my ship and deploy one of mine. I have plenty."

That owns, but in terms of multicrew, this worked because you all had your own ships there. If you'd all been on the same ship, it would've been different. That said, I agree that him being able to jump into your ship and drive your SRVs would've been great. And I'd point out that you would be able to do this regardless of whether it was "instant teleportation" or "same system required" or whatever.

But yeah, this kind of thing could be cool, and facilitating this kind of experience is exactly what I was asking about in terms of what might be compelling exploration play for multiplayer. Thanks.

 

[Cpt.Badger]

I don't think you understand what this means to me! My life is in ruins if Elite isn't the perfect image I have in my mind made manifest! You can't take that away from me, it will destroy me. Everything must make sense and follow the rules I have set for this universe and it will tear me apart if it doesn't!

Wait no it's just a video game and I like to have a fun chill time in space.

I think you should open your mind to a very simple concept. That concept is "fun means different things for different people".

Some people have fun playing a game in a most immersive way possible, while others don't care about it and prefer simplistic and quick gameplay sessions.

The problem is that you can't really please both sides.

That being said I'm in the NO boat for insta-join and teleporting across the whole milky way in an instant. Design-wise, this mechanic is just very incohesive.

Overall, I really expected much more from multicrew. Guess I gotta rethink my future bobblehead purchases.

 

[Apec Valorian]

No, if you think that going there on your own is an achievement, go there on your own, and don't insta-zap. Being there doesn't impress you? Okay, don't respect people who insta-zapped there. Be all "yeah well I flew out there myself."

Going there is an achievement. Being there is presumably impressive, but not an achievement if insta-zap gets you there.

And maybe -- just maybe -- to actually set out and embark on a task as challenging as going to Sag A* (instead of, say, telling myself that I'll do that some day later) I might require two achievements worth of a reward. Did that ever cross your mind?

 

[PyrateLV]

With a hundred pages, the thread got a bit TLDR.
I'm sure it will have been said though - If there is nothing else to add, this update will be a big bowl of steaming 'meh' for us solo players.

Its not even steaming.
Its Cold Porridge Meh and us Solo, Explorers, Miners and Traders are poor little David Copperfield.

 

[DawdlingEgg]

Way back when, I carved a pretty neat little figurine out of wood. Now there exists CNC machinery that can carve the same figurine. It cheapens my hobby!


Except that it doesn't. I still did it all by myself. I appreciated the time it took to craft. I don't and wouldn't bemoan people using a CNC machine or a 3D printer to do the same thing.


Now replace "carve a figurine" with "traveling to Sag A" and replace "CNC machinery" with "telepresence" and I think we're kind of close. The people arguing about losing the value or the special feeling of doing something? I don't think they value the accomplishment, I think they value being in a special club. Which is fine, too, that's okay to admit. But the way some are presenting their arguments just plain doesn't make sense.

 

[Maitolee]

Who cares about teleporting the body there, I have zero interest at all in the in-game lore justification for how I can remote control a spaceship, because I am a real life human being playing a video game where I fly a spaceship and the reason I am that kind of person is because it is fun. If I wanted to do things that aren't fun instead, I'd do those things.

I have no, none, not one need for an explanation as to how mechanics in games work.

Well, I guess having flying cows and sidereal unicorns would be plenty fun gameplay. Why don't implement it? In the end who cares this is a space simulator?

Wait, was that you saying that no one should say to others how to play the games they like?

 

[Paramemetic]

I think you should open your mind to a very simple concept. That concept is "fun means different things for different people".

Some people have fun playing a game in a most immersive way possible, while others don't care about it and prefer simplistic and quick gameplay sessions.

The problem is that you can't really please both sides.

That being said I'm in the NO boat for insta-join and teleporting across the whole milky way in an instant. Design-wise, this mechanic is just very incohesive.

Overall, I really expected much more from multicrew. Guess I gotta rethink my future bobblehead purchases.

As I have already said many times, you're absolutely right! Fun means different things for different people. For some people it means immersion, which is something you can optionally enforce on yourself if to you immersion means "waiting for stuff" or "meeting people in system before multi-crewing" even if the game allows it to be instant.

On the other hand, for some people, fun means "simplistic and quick gameplay sessions" which those people cannot do if the game straight up requires the long waits, or the being in the same system.

So if you want to make the game provide the greatest amount of fun to the greatest number of people, the better solution is to not require those things, so that people who want to do things quickly can, and people that don't want to do things quickly also can by playing how they choose.

RP is a great thing. I haven't unlocked Zach Nemo because he requires me to sell him Xihe Biomorphic Companions and that is deeply disturbing to me based on my RP. Jane Turner of Communism Interstellar doesn't have Palin unlocked because it would require her to blow up unknown artefacts which are living things and violate her roleplay of principled pacifism. Both of us are making decisions to play the way we want to play. We don't find it necessary to forbid other players from selling XBCs to creeps or to stop other people from murdering aliens.

If you want to roleplay that things take time to do, then that's cool! Do it, it's great. The game does not need to hard program those things in for you. Other people want to sell XBCs or kill artefacts, and they should be able to. Other people want to play with their friends and do not care about or need a lore explanation for how they can get to another ship without being in the same place at the same time. That's cool too. Just be cool with that thing and let us all enjoy space together.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

wont happen

If multicrew is limited to connecting at stations or staring at a timer, only a very small percentage of players will take advantage of it. Multiplayer needs to be fast, convenient, and rewarding to work well. Otherwise you're just trapping people into unsatisfying mechanics. Not everyone enjoys being locked into hyper-realism in a game. Realism is sweet, but its best when optional. Sitting in someone else's cockpit just to wait out the trip to the station and get back in my ship would be so aggravatingly boring. it'll just be car ride simulator 3303. Probably spend the time away from the computer, fixing tea or dinner. And no, I'd not be happy doing extra mini-game button pressing to gain fsd advantage, or exploring advantage. I'd like the option for that, but not if its the only thing i'm able to do for next x minutes. I'd also not be happy taking control of my friend's ship temporarily either. There comes a time where I want to be in my ship, to do my thing, and the worst thing a game can do is block me from that. What if my buddy disconnects? Am I going to be stuck in space or stuck watching a timer while i get back to the station? Sure a big message saying "You can't play game for 30 minutes" will be really attractive...

A game should never have a mechanic that prevents you from playing the game.

Want a cool mechanic of getting out of your ship and into someone else's ship then wait for 3.0 when legs are a thing. Keep the realism optional. Lets have a game that's easy and fun to play together with the optional ability for realism.

Given how limited Multi-crew sounds, its already going to be used by a small percentage of the community. Wings will, I fear, continue to be the preferred method for people to play together.

 

[Maitolee]

Can you explain it to me?

I mean, seriously, can you explain to me how my logging onto a friend's ship instead of logging onto my own ship actually changes the game at all?

I'm really curious.

For example, right now my ship is not in space. You cannot find it anywhere because I am not logged in. It's gone, I do not exist.

When I log in, my ship appears out of nowhere in the last place I logged out. It literally poofs into existence, along with my little dude in the cockpit (I guess), from not existing.

If I log in and go to multicrew, then my ship will poof out of existence (exactly as if I have logged out) and I will poof into existence on his ship (exactly as if I have logged in). When I log out again, I will poof out of existence on his ship (exactly as I do now), and then when I log in later, I will poof into existence on my ship again (exactly as if I have logged in now).

So in what way does this change anything about the game actually?

Because now you cannot poof anywhere anytime, distances have a meaning that would change if suddenly yes you can poof anywhere anytime.

 

[Marc_Hicks]

wont happen

One more fact to add to discussion.
I have a friend who recently purchased a game. Naturally I have much better ship and more experience.
When multicrew was announced but no details were clear we agreed to meet and fly together. For that I decided to cancel my exploration trip and turn back to bubble. Planning to arrive in 2-3 weeks. After that, we wanted to meet at some system and fly some time together, doing different types of activities (combat, missions, mining) to show him some “tips and tricks”.

Both of us seen requirement to actually meet at some location in game as absolutely necessary and logical. I never even considered any other implementation. And it never seen as “less fun”.
You want to be inside someone else’s ship – you meet him and board that ship.

Infinite range insta-jump looks both illogical and unnecessary to me.

Exactly, how many people arrange to meet up to see a movie, only to have one person say "nah, too far to go......can you just send me a video of the experience?" Making arrangements is one of the joys of the social experience.

 

[Apec Valorian]

Multiplayer Crews and Distance -- an Opportunity Wasted

Rather than treating distance as an enemy to the Multiplayer Crew feature, and fighting it by allowing players to insta-teleport across the entire galaxy, it could just as well be embraced.

Have you ever taken a trip to Colonia or Sagittarius A*? Takes a while, doesn't it!

Wouldn't it be great if you could take turns with another player piloting that damn ASP of yours across the vastness of space? Find some player a few timezones away to team up with, and do the trip in shifts, so you both get there faster? Like a real team of pilots would?

Heck, this is a hell of a wasted opportunity to give multiplayer crews another purpose, while also preserving -- nay, enhancing! -- the special flair of distance in the ED galaxy.

 

[CMDR Quar Damek]

Rather than treating distance as an enemy to the Multiplayer Crew feature, and fighting it by allowing players to insta-teleport across the entire galaxy, it could just as well be embraced.

Have you ever taken a trip to Colonia or Sagittarius A*? Takes a while, doesn't it!

Wouldn't it be great if you could take turns with another player piloting that damn ASP of yours across the vastness of space? Find some player a few timezones away to team up with, and do the trip in shifts, so you both get there faster? Like a real team of pilots would?

Heck, this is a hell of a wasted opportunity to give multiplayer crews another purpose, while also preserving -- nay, enhancing! -- the special flair of distance in the ED galaxy.

Have a rep, sir. Absolutely brilliant idea...

 

[Bardolin]

Way back when, I carved a pretty neat little figurine out of wood. Now there exists CNC machinery that can carve the same figurine. It cheapens my hobby!


Except that it doesn't. I still did it all by myself. I appreciated the time it took to craft. I don't and wouldn't bemoan people using a CNC machine or a 3D printer to do the same thing.


Now replace "carve a figurine" with "traveling to Sag A" and replace "CNC machinery" with "telepresence" and I think we're kind of close. The people arguing about losing the value or the special feeling of doing something? I don't think they value the accomplishment, I think they value being in a special club. Which is fine, too, that's okay to admit. But the way some are presenting their arguments just plain doesn't make sense.

I suspect it might be because to some being in that "special club" is important enough that they don't notice their arguments don't make sense.

 

[TacticalNecromancy]

Because now you cannot poof anywhere anytime, distances have a meaning that would change if suddenly yes you can poof anywhere anytime.

Woah woah woah. So I'm not allowed to play with friends because I've not earned the 'right' to do so yet?

I've popped out to Colonia and Sgr A*, which was an experience that took a few months. Would you want to do that every single time you and a friend wanted to meet up and actually do something? Distances have a meaning right now, you're right.

'Distance: That space between yourself and fun currently occupied by pressing 'J' 2250 times in a row.'

 

[DawdlingEgg]

Exactly, how many people arrange to meet up to see a movie, only to have one person say "nah, too far to go......can you just send me a video of the experience?" Making arrangements is one of the joys of the social experience.

I play dungeons and dragons in person with a group. But one of the players lives in california and he skypes in. It's great. What do D&D and E have in common? They're both games. Y'know, the things you do for fun? Things that shouldn't be a chore?

 

[Maitolee]

Also this doesn't work within the lore because SLFs are remote controlled and you do not physically get onto an SLF. Your NPC doesn't and neither do you. They are literally controlled via telepresence.

So how can you get on an SLF and dock with with a friend's ship? This is not possible within the lore and very inconsistent.

Last time I looked into my friends imperial fighter there was an avatar inside piloting. Frontier does not have an answer to "what if I die when piloting a SLF?" so says "telepresence" but there already fits (and actually sits) an avatar in those fighters, so you could perfectly board on another mothership via SLF.

Again, I'm against instant teleport anywhere anytime, not against reducing meeting with friends time. I've already posted some posible solution to this so that all of us can play and have fun.

 

[Paramemetic]

Because now you cannot poof anywhere anytime, distances have a meaning that would change if suddenly yes you can poof anywhere anytime.

How? Because I can't poof my ship anywhere any time. I can join a crew that is already there. When I leave the crew, I am where I left off. I cannot actually travel like this, I cannot transport my ships like this, I can only poof a little imaginary avatar man out for the purpose of being either a gunner or a fighter controller on someone else's ship.

So I am not actually poofing out there anywhere, my role is very limited when I do this. If I wanted to fly my own ship, I'd still need to fly it to the place.

So?

 

[Cpt.Badger]

Given how limited Multi-crew sounds, its already going to be used by a small percentage of the community. Wings will, I fear, continue to be the preferred method for people to play together.

I have to agree here. What FDev described sounds super simplistic and quite unrewarding gameplay-wise.

"I'm a turret now and all I can do is shoot things". Sounds fun. For about an hour.

 

[Maitolee]

Woah woah woah. So I'm not allowed to play with friends because I've not earned the 'right' to do so yet?

I've popped out to Colonia and Sgr A*, which was an experience that took a few months. Would you want to do that every single time you and a friend wanted to meet up and actually do something? Distances have a meaning right now, you're right.

'Distance: That space between yourself and fun currently occupied by pressing 'J' 2250 times in a row.'

Multiaccount: you leave your secondary avatar at the bubble so you are close to possible non explorer friends to quick meetup while your main avatar may be far away. That way you still have to travel to reach distant places, but you are not tied to stay only there during all the trip.

- - - Updated - - -

Rather than treating distance as an enemy to the Multiplayer Crew feature, and fighting it by allowing players to insta-teleport across the entire galaxy, it could just as well be embraced.

Have you ever taken a trip to Colonia or Sagittarius A*? Takes a while, doesn't it!

Wouldn't it be great if you could take turns with another player piloting that damn ASP of yours across the vastness of space? Find some player a few timezones away to team up with, and do the trip in shifts, so you both get there faster? Like a real team of pilots would?

Heck, this is a hell of a wasted opportunity to give multiplayer crews another purpose, while also preserving -- nay, enhancing! -- the special flair of distance in the ED galaxy.

THIS is a good one I had not though about. Glad that someone give some solutions.

 

[Kermit Laphroaig]

Multiaccount: you leave your secondary avatar at the bubble so you are close to possible non explorer friends to quick meetup while your main avatar may be far away. That way you still have to travel to reach distant places, but you are not tied to stay only there during all the trip.

- - - Updated - - -



THIS is a good one I had not though about. Glad that someone give some solutions.

Just as an aside, but you do play in Open, right?