Distance is actually a huge indicator of whether or not anything can actually be arranged. The farther I am from the friends I intend to hang out with, the less I can actually hang out with them, if at all. It's actually a real drag and there's no way around it because life isn't a video game.
News 2.3 Dev Update
- Thread starter Edward Lewis
- Start date
Distance is actually a huge indicator of whether or not anything can actually be arranged. The farther I am from the friends I intend to hang out with, the less I can actually hang out with them, if at all. It's actually a real drag and there's no way around it because life isn't a video game.
What if matchmaking is limited to the people in the same system ONLY? Would that appease everyone? Since you wont have to teleport anywhere so distant, virtually it will be an acceptable level of "telepresence". Also I believe being in the same instance may stabilize networking issues during matchmaking since you aren`t teleporting all the way across the galaxy.
You make too much sense for this forum. Virtual rep.
No, it would appease the immersion, or my-achievement would be devaluated if-crowd, who wouldn't recognize competent game design if it kicked them into the privates. When you limit the multicrew-joyning it to being in the same system, it's the same QoL as meeting up in a station or rather lack thereof. Adding the same-station-requirement from there would only add a more or less fixed amounbt of additional minutes required.
I suspect that it would make the handful of people with whom I occasionally play not bother (because evening play time is limited and 20+ minutes just for ingame meetup is nothing a sane person would do regularily), log out and have a good laugh at another spectacular messup brought to us by "Frontier Game Design™". At least that was what ship transfer has caused for us in the past. Wanted to meet up for a CG, friend would have had to crawl their in their only bounty hunting worthy ship while I was already there, and we simply called it a day. Evenings are short, work and life are a thing and Elite is a game, we didn't come back the other day. If ship tranfer hadn't been completely ducked up beyond recognition for the purpose it was originally proposed for, the picture would've been a different one, seeing as getting there in their Asp would've been quiet a bit quicker.
Well, this dev update makes me at least hopeful that Frontier are starting to learn what QoL and game design mean. Even though iut sounds as if all multicrew amounts to, is the canonical implementation of taking over combat roles.
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Lets be honest, though, the kinds of people who are most likely to use Multi-Crew probably already hang out in the same wing.....so distance is rarely a factor there. As I said, though, I reckon Ozram's solution is an elegant one which will appease everyone....even the "anti-social" people (like me) who were really hanging out for NPC Multi-Crew
.Lets be honest, though, the kinds of people who are most likely to use Multi-Crew probably already hang out in the same wing.....so distance is rarely a factor there. As I said, though, I reckon Ozram's solution is an elegant one which will appease everyone....even the "anti-social" people (like me) who were really hanging out for NPC Multi-Crew
Yea, you're probably right. [hehe]
I'm just thankful I wasn't drinking my coffee when I read this.
finally i think telepresence is a good thing ... and i propose to upgrade the fsd range of all FSD to jump in all the points of the galaxy too !!! cool ! it's fun for those who want go to beagle point , sag a ...colonia ...and other systems !! i propose to give all ships at max grade ingé to all players too ... it's fun for players wanna do pve/pvp but dont wanna spend their time to farm ... i propose to give us max rank ...it's mega fun for all players too ... in fact ... i propose too kill the gameplay ! are you happy ????
Ridiculous strawman argumentation aside, who are you exactly to presume to tell these players they ought to play the easy or the hard way?
But that particular analogy ship has sailed. Elite has already both, gimbals and turrets, with the latter maybe even becoming interesting with multicrew. That is if, if multicrew arrives intact and doesn't make people bend over backwards to partake in it, which would of course limit it to the echo chamber that is the ma-immershun crowd. Are you the one to tell people they ought not to use gimbals, because that's an easy cop out? Who are you exactly to determine that for any person who is not yourself?
Yes, that post makes a terrible lot of sense. Because the poster has recognized apparently, that telling other people what to do and how to do or enjoy something is a no-go. Something frighteningly many people here don't. A toast to the maturity of that poster, don't you think?
Edit: If you were inclined to role play an Elite parallel universe, where gimbals and turrets don't exist, there's always the option to open a group and invite others to join you in your roleplay. More power to you then. But that's just also the mark of good roleplay: It doesn't try to harass everybody into joining in, whether they want or not.
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Repped, and repped. *Commence incantations to David: God of Elite*
I'm not sure I understand, is there really some concern that David and Sandro don't communicate about the game?
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I am convinced the forums have come up with their own mythos about how the various people at Fronier Development interact.
Slashfic is the inevitable next step.
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50 Shades of Braben: No ETAs, No Guarantees?
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Can someone please explain what happened to the original plan??
Can someone PLEASE explain to me what happened to the entire Pilot, Navigator, Engineer, and Systems positions????? So is it 3 players in one ship now or are we still at 4?? If it is 4, then what is the 4th position besides Helm, Gunner, and Fighter Con?? Passenger?? We need another dev update explaining this better!
Can someone PLEASE explain to me what happened to the entire Pilot, Navigator, Engineer, and Systems positions????? So is it 3 players in one ship now or are we still at 4?? If it is 4, then what is the 4th position besides Helm, Gunner, and Fighter Con?? Passenger?? We need another dev update explaining this better!
dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
Max of three: Helm (the ship owner), Gunner and Fighter Con Roles. Navigator and Engineer didn't make it in I'm afraid. If you want to be a passenger then you take the Gunner or Fighter Con seat but just don't do anything.
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Oh, hello there, valid concern and criticism. Stand aside for a moment, the very important issue of can't-bloody-let-anybody-else-have-something-convenient-if-I-don't-find-it-immersive has to be settled first.
No really, that's a question Frontier ought to explain in the coming livestreams, preferrably. But it's drowned out by people trying to impose their personal RP requirements on others.
Here's the problem.
You being able to "teleport" onto another ship and experience what it is devalues exploration, and devalues the achievements that FD implement with stuff like Beagle Point Hatton station. Now you don't have to travel to such places by yourself...you just have to accept an invite from someone already there.
There is a problem with Immersion as far as the "Telepresence" aspect is concerned because it breaks the rules of the game universe. And to a large degree, with something like Multicrew, that is unavoidable. At the same time, you cannot form a Wing with someone who is on the other side of the galaxy so game restrictions on this type of activity already exist.
Frontier's goal here - of having an easy drop in type of activity where players and friends can easily work together - is good. It also already exists in the form of Arena. And if those friends are already interested in working together as multicrew, one might wonder why they are not involved in wings right now.
As I said - the goal is laudable. But the design you laud is actually poor.
The drop in drop out style of play FD are going for.....one can ask is it actually needed? QoL is important...but inconvenience within a game, operating within the games rules and constraints, is often what makes the game work for players. Beagle Point is an achievement because it is so far, away. I f anyone can see it simply by accepting an invite...will it be the same? Look at other games...World of Warcraft introduced flight early on in its life cycle. That was and is a huge QoL boost. It is also recognised by many as a huge mistake because it provided shortcuts and allowed players to bypass critical game elements and devalued achievements and activities such as exploring. There was no fun to trying to find new content when all you had to do was get on a mount and zoom up and over any obstacles. And ever since then, Blizzard have been trying to pare it back and players keep complaining about their efforts.
So - QoL is good. But it MUST be balanced against other factors.
What would the ideal solution - for immersion - be? Having each member of the multicrew be docked at the same station before allowing the invite to be made.
What about the drop in crowd Blizzard want to attract? Would a greater push on Arena help? Perhaps a CQC terminal on every station allowing you access to the local contests?
But yes…Arena is not quite the same as being on anothers ship. It has the drop in element, it has the same combat element as the multicrew that has been described, it can operate as a team but it doesn’t have the same work together on the same ship aspect.
So – what problem is this Drop In aspect, this QoL “improvement” trying to solve? The obvious one is that Frontier doesn’t want to make friends jump through hoops to play together. The counter is that such hoops already exist and no one seems to complain overly much about most of them.
So the other problem is that aspect where friends only occasionally meet up. Where they might be scattered and hundreds of light years apart. Where it would be inconvenient – time wise – for them to meet up. Where one might not want to disrupt what he is doing simply to spend ten minutes helping a friend. Where the intention is to avoid said players travelling hundreds of LYs simply to join a friend based upon a spur of the moment decision. Where CQC is not a desired option for them.
As I said, a laudable goal. But FDs solution has a very real impact on gameplay. Scenario….a player is in trouble. He invites two friends to join him. They do so. The ship gets an SLF, it gets a gunner and its get 2 power PIPs. Player beats the fight and his friends leave.
Is this type of scenario acceptable? I suspect, to many it would not be. Your QoL is having an impact on actual gameplay. And not necessarily a good impact.
So – let us say that having this drop in aspect is important enough to overlook at least some of the impact on gameplay. How should it be implemented?
Me? I would offer a new gameplay mode accessible from the main menu. The player would accept an invite and “possess” an NPC crew member. As for rewards….he would not get any credit, and it would be up to him to get a share of the reward from his friend. The game should set up a trade system between players, similar to the ship transfer, whereby credits and goods can be exchanged. Not instantaneously, with a delay, and it’d be more of an authorised transfer – one pilot giving goods and credits to the broker on his station, and the broker giving the recipient goods and credits from his store on the destination station after receiving the electronic authorisation and request to do so. At the same time, I’d also push Arena and make it more accessible, by allowing players to access it from any station, by limiting the contest to one of two maps (which may be an asteroid field) and allowing for NPC opponents. Let players interact that way.
This wouldn’t solve all issues with the system. And yes, it’d raise some of its own.
That leaves the actual mechanics of multicrew –which in this implementation are bad. Shockingly bad. Combat focussed with nothing for any other aspect of the game, duplicating already existing systems? Not good.
dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
It's odd, but I was strongly opposed to instant ship transfer. I thought it would be awful, but I can't give you a good reason why. I was very pleased with the final decision, and having used ship transfer many times now I haven't changed my mind. The delay we have now seems perfect to me and I don't believe it is a detriment to gameplay.
When it comes to multi crew though, I have the opposite view. I think instantly joining a crew is the right way to go. Less immersive for sure, but I don't think it would work without it.
Suppose this makes me hated by both camps
When it comes to multi crew though, I have the opposite view. I think instantly joining a crew is the right way to go. Less immersive for sure, but I don't think it would work without it.
Suppose this makes me hated by both camps
This unicorn magic will probably turn out to be Space Loach's idea!
Sandro, please have a word with Loach...
No, you can't travel there. Your ship stays where you last docked it, you don't magically gain all exploration data and rank progress of the person who travelled there. You only get to play in their ship for a short while, not even being able to control it, for - hey - if the dev update is any indication, explorer game mechanics will again be a non-entitiy for multicrew.
What it devalues is your perception of the value of sitting through all those loading screens to get there. That's your personal problem however.
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