400 ARX per week max - How Come?

[Sysmon]

Probably need to give up the day job to max Arx over the week...!

Arx will be the new forum PvP meta!

S

 

[StuartGT]

They weren't available in game before. Putting them behind a massive grind wall instead of just paying up front I'd exactly what these other companies always do. It's designed to get more people paying.

Whales are people that will continually pump money into it via microtransactions. That's all. It doesn't matter what they're spending it on. It's a steady cash target.

"Making cosmetics earnable by playing the game is a bad thing. If they had kept them cash-only then there'd be less whales" or something

 

[Sysmon]

My take on it is it is a number they've come up with that will not encourage people to make Elite a job. I found the implied necessity to do dailies made it so that I didn't have time to do what I wanted to do. Indeed, guilds even began to berate those who didn't do their dailies. They became a chore.

That implies that those players don't value their time, or value their money much more if they are decrying they have to pump in excessive hours to somehow meet a weekly Arx target. But they don't! There is no reason to "grind" for Arx unless there is somehow an advantage to be had in the game to maximising the amount of cosmetics one can accrue over time. Yet, there is no advantage to cosmetics.

And comparing Arxs to in-game currencies from dailies in MMOs is just silly: In WoW, for example, the badges or tokens or whatever gained from dailies are ways to get better gear for end-game content. But these cannot be bought for cash. Arx buy cosmetics only, and the player can choose to pay for them with cash or let them accrue in-game.

Why do we even have these threads?

S

 

[Sunyavadin]

"Making cosmetics earnable by playing the game is a bad thing. If they had kept them cash-only then there'd be less whales" or something

That's an absurd oversimplification of the criticism.
It's more that this is a common tactic used by publishers to generate a sense of investment, and get people to have "one foot in the microtransaction pool", as it were.
It comes in a few forms, like back before Bungie split with Activision, Destiny 2 had a slot machine system which gave you one free spin every week. With the promise of more goodies if you just put down some real money for the next go.
It's well known that people are more willing to become repeat customers if they've already experienced the act of buying something. It's why businesses have given away vouchers for free stuff for as long as there's been trade.
And in the current environment of the games industry, yes, it's always going to be viewed with suspicion, and rightly so, no matter who is doing it.

 

[Stealthie]

That's an absurd oversimplification of the criticism.
It's more that this is a common tactic used by publishers to generate a sense of investment, and get people to have "one foot in the microtransaction pool", as it were.

My main concern is that it puts a framework in place that'll make it easier to implement less desirable features later on.

There's no sign of that happening now but it'd be short-sighted to not be concerned about what might happen in the future, perhaps with a change of management or company circumstances etc.

 

[Tikanderoga]

Arx acquisition is activity based so there will be no afk way to get it.

It encourages botting basically.

 

[StuartGT]

That's an absurd oversimplification of the criticism.
It's more that this is a common tactic used by publishers to generate a sense of investment, and get people to have "one foot in the microtransaction pool", as it were.
It comes in a few forms, like back before Bungie split with Activision, Destiny 2 had a slot machine system which gave you one free spin every week. With the promise of more goodies if you just put down some real money for the next go.
It's well known that people are more willing to become repeat customers if they've already experienced the act of buying something. It's why businesses have given away vouchers for free stuff for as long as there's been trade.
And in the current environment of the games industry, yes, it's always going to be viewed with suspicion, and rightly so, no matter who is doing it.

So in summary what you're saying is "Making cosmetics earnable by playing the game is a bad thing. If they had kept them cash-only then there'd be less whales" or something.

I appreciate you agreeing with my oversimplification

 

[Chaparral]

Those whose gameplay doesn't get them close to the cap won't feel as though they're being denied something significant, while those who hit the cap easily will quickly learn to ignore its impact on their gameplay because it's something they'll be achieving without really trying. But they will notice their arx balance creeping towards the threshold for that paint job they really want, and the closer it gets the larger the temptation may be to buy just a small pack of arx...

If FD are playing the psychological games well they will have looked at their metrics and chosen an arx accrual mechanic that puts most players firmly in one of those two camps, leaving a relatively small number in the grey area and hoping that they will be encouraged into the second group rather than giving up on the game altogether. It's a fine balancing act, and may actually cost them some players from that middle ground who will feel as though the game manipulating them is the final straw. But if done right, the bulk of players will either ignore it or they may be nudged towards further arx purchases.

A few will of course play the mind ga cappedmes better than FD; maxing free arx, never buying packs, picking up free skins every few weeks or months. History with other games suggests they will not be a significant proportion of the overall numbers, otherwise FD and their partners would not be doing this at all.

Just my tencents.

(I suspect the whole reason for the OP was excuse to liken ED to a "last gasp MMO", but since most replies are treating the subject seriously I figured I'd play along.)

You raise a fair point. I think that if grinding ARX was not capped it would feel more like a regular game grind, whether it was rep or credits or mats. But capping the amount feels like a bad design choice. Sort of consistent with the first iteration of the guardian grind. An extension of a basic mechanic just because. The cap feels like a daily to me.

 

[Chaparral]

Are you legit asking why FD put a cap on how much free money they give to us?

Yes. Playing a game to earn skins is not a new model. The return business is in grinding for new skins, not for grinding for a limited supply. Try some other games. You'll see.

 

[Gorr]

You can always do a real job and enjoy the game without forcefull Arx grinding... just buy them and do whatever you like to do in the game.

If you get some Arx in that process even better.

 

[Chaparral]

400 Arx per week is fine.
The very fact that they seem to be both making it possible to earn cosmetics for free, and reducing the costs of some of the cosmetics (looking at the real-world conversions which show the cheaper items dropping from £1 to like 20p) considerably... no, I think they're about right on the accumulation rate here. Remember:
Decals, engine and weapon colours - okay, a single designer could probably throw them together as a side project quite quickly, so they're happy to practically give them away, or earn a little scratch from them if necessary.
Paint-jobs - similar deal really, a couple of people could come up with some simple designs relatively regularly, but the process seems to be more involved, and there's the aesthetic value of them as well to consider. So some paint-jobs FD are happy to release for nothing, but the majority of them need a bit of cost-offsetting.
Ship-kits and bobbleheads - these ones clearly take a lot more effort to put together than paint-jobs. They're full 3D objects that need to sit well with the ships original lines, and work in some way with any of the paint-jobs that could conceivably be applied (whether they do this manually or through some dynamic automatic means). They're going to be costing a lot more to produce, so they're obviously going to sell them for more. Frontier won't want many of these to be given away easily for nothing, so naturally their Arx values are going to be comparable to their original real-world currency values (and we see their prices are going up slightly, probably to ease the hit of the lower paint-job and decal prices, and account for earned Arx).
COVAS - well this one's a no-brainer. I imagine costs are going to be higher for these when they hire third parties in to do voice acting. So, same with the previous entry, they don't want these slipping away easily, so they retain their comparable real-world prices.

At the end of the day, Frontier still want to make money through their store. They have a history of being very generous with cosmetics, and I still believe they have a heart for the community (and not just our wallets). So it's all about striking the right balance between making us feel like we're getting value, and keeping the store profitable. I don't begrudge them for that at all.

Obviously it remains to be seen, but 400 Arx per week could be in the right kind of range to do just that. If it turns out that FD feel that the accumulation rate is too slow (or even too fast), I'm sure they'll adjust it further down the line.

So the bobbles, COVAS and paint are already built. There isn't really a current cost associated with them - I am sure the previous sales have covered those costs or game earnable ARX wouldn't be a thing.

I don't have a problem with the cost structure of the cosmetic items. I am questioning the design choice of capping weekly earnings. If the earn rate is extremely fast for game play, and is capped at 400 ARX/ week, once the target is hit, continued game play is disincentivized. This is the daily check in model - extended to a week.

Slowing the earning rate, and removing the cap would incentivize extended and more frequent game play.

 

[Chaparral]

Well if its a bad design choice then its one made by pretty much all games companies that have premium currency.

Most don't cap earning. Incentivising continuous and long game play is usually the model.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

So the bobbles, COVAS and paint are already built. There isn't really a current cost associated with them - I am sure the previous sales have covered those costs or game earnable ARX wouldn't be a thing.

I don't have a problem with the cost structure of the cosmetic items. I am questioning the design choice of capping weekly earnings. If the earn rate is extremely fast for game play, and is capped at 400 ARX/ week, once the target is hit, continued game play is disincentivized. This is the daily check in model - extended to a week.

Slowing the earning rate, and removing the cap would incentivize extended and more frequent game play.

This all comes with an awfully big assumption about the earning rate. We have no idea as yet what earning 400 arx will look like. It could be that we have to do the equivalent of 72 hours of gameplay in a given week to get the full amount. Or it could be that we rack up Arx at such a rate that we're done in six hours.

The former leaves no room for disincentivisation, whereas the latter does as you say.

But we don't know what way it's going to swing yet.

If it's fast then the cap becomes noticeable. If it's slow, then the cap is invisible.

 

[JetsonRING]

Stops them being pulled into Parliament with other companies and being asked why they try to get children to play excessive hours on the game? Is the responsible thing to do when you know there are people with addiction issues in the community? That kind of thing. Being a responsible company.

what? You're kidding, right?

 

[MagCynic]

Consider this, I currently pay $14 a month for the privilege of playing World of Warcraft. If Frontier pushed out content for E at the same rate Blizzard did for WoW, I'd be happy spending $14 a month on Arx currency in order to support the life of the game. Is Frontier at that point yet, though? I'm not sure. I only just recently returned to the game.

 

[Scubadog]

I'm utterly amazed that anyone would complain about something they get for free. If you are getting ANY of the Arx for simply playing the game, shut up and use them. I would have be perfectly fine converting to Arx and never getting any for free--simply buying increments as I needed. It's not that big of a departure from what we are currently doing on PC. Good grief, some people.

 

[Maolagin]

This all comes with an awfully big assumption about the earning rate. We have no idea as yet what earning 400 arx will look like. It could be that we have to do the equivalent of 72 hours of gameplay in a given week to get the full amount. Or it could be that we rack up Arx at such a rate that we're done in six hours.

The former leaves no room for disincentivisation, whereas the latter does as you say.

But we don't know what way it's going to swing yet.

If it's fast then the cap becomes noticeable. If it's slow, then the cap is invisible.

Indeed, IIRC in the livestream Will earned 12 Arx from a session that, if you cut out all the chatter, amounted to about five minutes of actual gameplay. If that's accurate, players could be knocking out the weekly cap in a single night's session.

That feels more like a "thanks for playing" tip that they expect basically all regular players to usually get. Has the benefit of giving all players a reason to dive into the store now and then even if they weren't planning on buying any cosmetics, while ensuring that there's no viable return on gold farming.

 

[Ezren]

That's an absurd oversimplification of the criticism.
It's more that this is a common tactic used by publishers to generate a sense of investment, and get people to have "one foot in the microtransaction pool", as it were.
It comes in a few forms, like back before Bungie split with Activision, Destiny 2 had a slot machine system which gave you one free spin every week. With the promise of more goodies if you just put down some real money for the next go.
It's well known that people are more willing to become repeat customers if they've already experienced the act of buying something. It's why businesses have given away vouchers for free stuff for as long as there's been trade.
And in the current environment of the games industry, yes, it's always going to be viewed with suspicion, and rightly so, no matter who is doing it.

Oh, I think that criticism was plenty simple to begin with.

There's a whole lot of "but this game does this" which doesn't really compare to this. You just brought up a slot machine system in Destiny 2. How does that relate to ARX? It doesn't, it's just a thing you said, two completely different things; a lootbox system and a system where you know exactly what you're getting operate in completely different manners, their mechanics are different, their outputs are different, their inputs are different.

The only thing they have in common is somebody might spend money on them. So you may as well compare ARX to a hot dog cart for all the relevance your example had.

 

[StuartGT]

Oh, I think that criticism was plenty simple to begin with.

There's a whole lot of "but this game does this" which doesn't really compare to this. You just brought up a slot machine system in Destiny 2. How does that relate to ARX? It doesn't, it's just a thing you said, two completely different things; a lootbox system and a system where you know exactly what you're getting operate in completely different manners, their mechanics are different, their outputs are different, their inputs are different.

The only thing they have in common is somebody might spend money on them. So you may as well compare ARX to a hot dog cart for all the relevance your example had.

Also, down with that Hot Dog stand giving out free samples and loyalty coupons to regular customers, they'll only make me think of buying more yummy Hot Dogs when I want them. Those corporate fiends!

 

[sollisb]

Yeah, I don't know what they're getting at either. Anything of any value on the crown store isn't earnable ingame, and you never get crowns for playing.

You get free crowns every month (with sub) you get daily rewards for logging in. You get daily rewards for doing dailies.