400+ Billion Stars but to what end?

[RealNC]

Do you think we will ever explore all 400+B stars in the ED galaxy? I wonder to what end that ceases to be a selling point and turns into a detriment. Lot of space for a lot of nothing to happen in. Is there inherent value in touting such a high number of PG stars in the virtual sky? Is it the notion that you could maybe, possibly be the one to see that one spec of space before any one or ever again? How do we as players not get ourselves dispersed, lost and ultimately unphased by that vastness of untapped space when most of our interactions require instanced and generated interactions with other humans / NPCs to advance?

To what end does it matter how big this place really is?

It's just a marketing gimmick. 400 billion systems is not useful by any stretch of the imagination. It could have been 400 million, or even 40 million, and it would have made zero difference gameplay-wise. But "400 billion" sounds cool to potential buyers, especially space nerds (like me.)

I wonder why "400 billion" didn't turn into a meme yet

 

[CMDR_Justin_Bieber]

Is there inherent value in touting such a high number of PG stars in the virtual sky?
To what end does it matter how big this place really is?

The first thing I thought when I heard of Elite: Dangerous was, man, If I ever have grandchildren, I could pass on this saved game to them, it could be a gamers family heirloom. Though, the game would need to be around for that long.

It is nice that I'll never see the whole of this game within my lifetime. Sure I'll see all the event types, and types of stations, and types of stars, and other celestial bodies, but I'll never see each individual one, and to me, not being able to do everything that can be done in a game so quickly is refreshing.

 

[orfeboy]

400,000,000,000 systems leaves scope for FD to hide things in the game. Special systems that will not be the norm as time and development continue. SC has 100 systems if you consider how many player will be playing that game and then divide that number into the number of planets etc. you will have a game where you will rarely ever be alone. ED has a galaxy where it is very easy to be alone and very easy to see just how vast space really is. Putting new things in the game will always be doable. A smaller galaxy like that of SC will be much harder. You imagine the PVP moaning that will go on when SC is released...

I prefer ED's way of doing it to be honest

 

[xondk]

xondk, maybe I'm just branded of the huge amount of companies promising tons of stuff and in the end never bringing it out the proper way, because, from what I can see, FD already counts with the projects death when Star Citizen comes out.

No matter how you turn it, I'm angry of having spent 50 bucks to a company which, once again, promised too much - but the most parts of it aren't working properly yet. It even seems like they've no idea of what they're doing when it comes to certain parts of the game. It's like they're standing there and trying to improvise how to go further with the project - NOW.

But honestly, that for I'd have let the game stay in BETA. The fact they've brought it out already seems like it's because of a huge lack of cash in their offices and E|D is the last try to stay over water.

I mean, did anyone know that you can trade Credits with another player? Well, actually cou CAN. Both just have to dock in the same station, write each other and then click on his nickname and select trade.

I was just like... WOW.

I can't see where they promised all this at release, my impression is that they promised a gigantic open and explorable universe at release, which was given.

But I totally understand being burned out by companies promising big things and delivering nothing, I am the same.

However Space simulators (in general all sim games) are games that are very very different from other games. You see quite a bit of people complaining about things taking too long like super cruise and such.
That is the kind of people that want instant gratification, however simulator games, aren't instant. You need to invest time to learn how it works, learn how to do things correctly and such. and I enjoy these kind of games, much much more then any of the other game genre's out there.

in terms of it isn't ready for release, personally I feel that the game is running smooth and working great, sure there are bugs, but they are fixing them VERY fast compared to many other games, where there can go months for fixes to go in, even mmorpgs can have bugs for a long long time before they get fixed. So yeah I only have a positive experience so far, that said as long as Frontier Development keep making the game they want to create, expanding it with things they want to expand it to, Making a game they enjoy and are passionate about, then I believe things are going to only get even better as things go on. And I seriously doubt star citizen will kill elite dangerous, however I will agree that star citizen is on my list, but Elite dangerous and star citizen are two different approaches to this whole thing, star citizen is denser and 'seems' to be more action orientated, at least initially there is very little exploration since there are just the 125 systems.

So yeah I doubt Star citizen will kill Elite Dangerous, I actually think because star citizen is wider known (so it seems at least) that Elite Dangerous might actually get a boost when star citizen comes out, players that want both kind of experiences, people that want more exploration and faction stuff.

But yes Elite Dangerous isn't right off the bat for the 'masses', neither is star citizen, but star citizen might actually make people realize that space sims are great and want a bit 'bigger' game like Elite and then jump over to Elite.

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It's just a marketing gimmick. 400 billion systems is not useful by any stretch of the imagination. It could have been 400 million, or even 40 million, and it would have made zero difference gameplay-wise. But "400 billion" sounds cool to potential buyers, especially space nerds (like me.)

I wonder why "400 billion" didn't turn into a meme yet

Uhhh 400 billion is useful because there is ROOM from the start for a TON of expansion, as it is the game now is a very very big and solid foundation. We all know that expansions can feel tacked on, depending on how they are made, so 'extra' systems might feel odd in star citizen, but yeah we don't know, they may do it right when they add more systems.

However Elite Dangerous' approach is in my opinion one that has a greater potential then Star Citizen.

 

[Panzer]

It has mostly upsides and a fairly big downside.

If the galaxy wasn't as it is - finite, but broad beyond imagination - soon people would call for more systems, more stuff in them and generally be dissatisfied with certain areas becoming overcrowded. It's what happened almost instantly in Freelancer. The stock game's galaxy can be entirely memorized after a while. One of the first things done by mods was to add more systems. In the longer run, a gigantic galaxy allows for seamless additions that would require several systems' worth of space. Thargoids, maybe... but the galaxy is big enough to accommodate hundreds of more or less imaginative things.

The downside is that most of those systems will remain pretty useless and unvisited. Much as things stand today - player activity only happens where there's something important for players - moneymaking, equipment purchases and the like.

And I still say, that blank billboard is a lot more useful than an A5 that's all printed over already.

 

[xtridence]

Man, SC will offer you a FPS module, it will offer you a deeper immersion in order of setting up social interactions which don't have to do anything with flying around at all. Sure, I complain about supercruises being LONG, because, honestly, adding a simple minigame to keep yourself entertained or adding a ingame browser would be great after all. If you were experiencing such a long jump of 30 minutes+ you'd be maybe even watching an erotic movie and fap to it in order to keep yourself entertained if you don't have anything else to do.

I mean, wow. SC will definitely outperform ED in any imaginable way, because of all kind of modules. You'll keep entertained - if you want to be. All the time.

E|D is just 12/7 Trucking / PvE and that's it.

How does SC solve that PVP problem in certain sectors? It implements - beatable - high security sector measurements. Just like in Freelancer and EVE. Why didn't FD think about this?

And just saying: The reward for having explored something is... quite minimal. Besides being curious, I bet my , that if you've been exploring 2-3 times in a larger scale, you'll quit it.

 

[RealNC]

Uhhh 400 billion is useful because there is ROOM from the start for a TON of expansion

There would be more than enough room with 40 million system too. Even you reserve something in, say, 100 thousand systems, that still leaves you with 39.9 million...

I don't think that most people here understand how incomprehensibly big the number 400 billion is...

 

[xondk]

Man, SC will offer you a FPS module, it will offer you a deeper immersion in order of setting up social interactions which don't have to do anything with flying around at all. Sure, I complain about supercruises being LONG, because, honestly, adding a simple minigame to keep yourself entertained or adding a ingame browser would be great after all. If you were experiencing such a long jump of 30 minutes+ you'd be maybe even watching an erotic movie and fap to it in order to keep yourself entertained if you don't have anything else to do.

I mean, wow. SC will definitely outperform ED in any imaginable way, because of all kind of modules. You'll keep entertained - if you want to be. All the time.

E|D is just 12/7 Trucking / PvE and that's it.

How does SC solve that PVP problem in certain sectors? It implements - beatable - high security sector measurements. Just like in Freelancer. Why didn't FD think about this?

hmm, if you have report crimes on, they will come to your aide. BUT here's the thing, it takes time, and if you are in a system that doesn't have a good security or any then well no one will come to your help. From what I understand if you report crimes, npc allies will also come to help you.

And star citizen isn't out yet so we don't know how they handle PVP, personally I think that it takes time for the help to arrive is alright, they need to find you first. and get form A to B.

And you are going 'all kinds of modules' what kinds are you refering to? imersion? via walk around and such? Elite is getting that too, fps? last I checked that's also on Elite's plan.
We do not know how fast travelling will be in star citizen, we will have to wait and see, but I SERIOUSLY doubt it will be significantly faster then Elite dangerous, we are talking about enormous distances, it takes time to travel such distances, Elite dangerous is more simulator then Star citizens, and that is a good thing in my eyes, that said star citizen is likely going to be great as well, but I seriously doubt it is going to kill Elite dangerous. There are quite a few big mmorpgs around, and there is more then enough players for all of them. So I think that there are more then enough players for both even with space sim being slightly niche.

Also make note, Elite Dangerous has a significantly shorter development time, so of course it starts with less.

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There would be more than enough room with 40 million system too. Even you reserve something in, say, 100 thousand systems, that still leaves you with 39.9 million...

I don't think that most people here understand how incomprehensibly big the number 400 billion is...

I am aware of how big it is, however I do believe it was chosen because the milky way was chosen as location, and the estimated amount of stars in it is...200–400 billion. And since Elite Dangerous is a simulator, well, they do it realistically.

 

[TannakaObi]

Do you think we will ever explore all 400+B stars in the ED galaxy? I wonder to what end that ceases to be a selling point and turns into a detriment. Lot of space for a lot of nothing to happen in. Is there inherent value in touting such a high number of PG stars in the virtual sky? Is it the notion that you could maybe, possibly be the one to see that one spec of space before anyone or ever again? How do we as players not get ourselves dispersed, lost and ultimately unphased by that vastness of untapped space when most of our interactions require instanced and generated interactions with other humans / NPCs to advance?

To what end does it matter how big this place really is?

For one thing it means that no matter how long this game goes on there will always be something to explore. I don't see how it will be detrimental, Populated space will expand a little which is where you will need to be for interaction. The rest is there for exploration. If anyone finds something interesting then the news will break and people will head there for a while. I expect this will happen over and over. People that are not explorers are better to stay around the populated area's.

 

[DCello]

For one thing it means that no matter how long this game goes on there will always be something to explore. I don't see how it will be detrimental, Populated space will expand a little which is where you will need to be for interaction. The rest is there for exploration. If anyone finds something interesting then the news will break and people will head there for a while. I expect this will happen over and over. People that are not explorers are better to stay around the populated area's.

One thing that I agree with the OP is that only like 2%-5% of the game is populated (value may be wrong, I read somewhere a dev say that it was in the single digits). That makes the 400 billion ridiculously useless unless there is some sort of content added -- there are only about 15 types of stars on the galaxy and 154 different celestial phenomena -- that's hardly enough things to keep 400,000,000,000 stars interesting.

 

[TheDayman]

Man, SC will offer you a FPS module, it will offer you a deeper immersion in order of setting up social interactions which don't have to do anything with flying around at all. Sure, I complain about supercruises being LONG, because, honestly, adding a simple minigame to keep yourself entertained or adding a ingame browser would be great after all. If you were experiencing such a long jump of 30 minutes+ you'd be maybe even watching an erotic movie and fap to it in order to keep yourself entertained if you don't have anything else to do.

I mean, wow. SC will definitely outperform ED in any imaginable way, because of all kind of modules. You'll keep entertained - if you want to be. All the time.

E|D is just 12/7 Trucking / PvE and that's it.

How does SC solve that PVP problem in certain sectors? It implements - beatable - high security sector measurements. Just like in Freelancer and EVE. Why didn't FD think about this?

And just saying: The reward for having explored something is... quite minimal. Besides being curious, I bet my , that if you've been exploring 2-3 times in a larger scale, you'll quit it.

I just want to scream "GO PLAY STAR CITIZEN"... but then I realize this is an internet message board and I might as well throw pebbles at a leaf boat floating on a lake.

 

[Hilight]

It's got 400 billion stars because the real galaxy has 400 billion stars. They were not created with a purpose in mind either, AFAIK.
.
No other space sim conveys the unimaginable vastness of space and also its unimaginable beauty. You can set off and fly for weeks, if not months, on a solitary journey and suddenly come across a sight that is so unexpectedly beautiful that it leaves you speechless. And nobody has seen it but you. These procedurally crafted systems lay dormant in the server, possibly never to become shape and light on a screen; to remain undiscovered and unwitnessed forever, just some unknown bytes in a machine. But you found them; only you, and like a waveform collapsing under your observation their quantum state shifted from bytes to pixels and blazed into being. Their sight is yours alone. They dance for no one but you.
.
It is as close as you can get to what it must feel like to explore the stars. For that alone Elite Dangerous is not just a game; it is a work of art.

Outstanding writing and point of view. I couldn't agree more R+

 

[NumptyScrub]

I'm sorry, but those "clashes" are pathetic. They have zero amount of role-play and are caused by childish ego, where one group gets angry at the other for "undermining their authority" or "stealing their system" or whatever it is the reason that no one except the half a dozen people involved care about.

When they begin roleplaying, with characters, ideas, intrigues, and reasons, then I may care. But if that's the extent of "player generated content", I'm sticking to Solo and group for now.

They do, however, illustrate that existing multiplayer mechanics already allows for groups of players to interact with other groups of players.

Which is something that was quoted as "missing" from the release product, and thus something I saw fit to challenge as an incorrect assertion.

I saw a list of "FDEV said they would give me this and this and this but they didn't!" and handed over a list of "all of that seems to be in already, look here" as a rebuttal.

I'm merely commenting on the existence of these things, not their quality or even their appropriateness, because those values are subjective to each individual.

I just want to scream "GO PLAY STAR CITIZEN"... but then I realize this is an internet message board and I might as well throw pebbles at a leaf boat floating on a lake.

So, does SC have anything beyond a hangar module and an arena combat module yet? I'm waiting for it to get the persistent universe / Squadron Thingy bits playable before I buy $15,000 worth of internet spaceships for my internet hangar. Every time I check it's still arena combat or go home though

 

[Commander Azriel]

If we had 1 billion systems, would anyone notice?
Honestly I think it wouldn't change game-play that much if at all. Perhaps only to the few that spend enough time to somehow reach every single system.

If you wanted to spend one single minute in each of those ONE billion system it would take you over 1900 years, lol. There are 'no few' that will ever do that...

 

[TheDayman]

So, does SC have anything beyond a hangar module and an arena combat module yet? I'm waiting for it to get the persistent universe / Squadron Thingy bits playable before I buy $15,000 worth of internet spaceships for my internet hangar. Every time I check it's still arena combat or go home though

No idea, I don't really keep up with SC news - I was just commenting on the OPs constant SC references.

 

[Mkkt Bkkt]

If you wanted to spend one single minute in each of those ONE billion system it would take you over 1900 years, lol. There are 'no few' that will ever do that...

Yes, my fault. I forgot to check how long that would take, but 1B is a whole lot, anyway. In that case, if it was designed right there would be very little losses. However, like I said, now is too late to take back 399B systems.


Instead of saying how useless even 399.5B systems are, despite them actually being useless. I would spend time on suggesting much-needed features to the devs, perhaps even explaining the way it would work.

Yes, it is tedious, yes, some features should have been put here since the beginning. But what's done is done, if something is so terribly implemented, (galaxy map could be an example) that the game even becomes unplayable, (which seems to be a matter of personal perspective) then either try to suggest a fix or leave temporarily/permanently.


Don't take this the wrong way, this isn't a message directly to you. I am just annoyed by the amount of people who think that pointing out how useless something is on the forums will fix the game. Especially if most of us are immature white-knights living under a basement (exaggerated example of forums in general), then posting on the forums would be a terrible idea.


Anyways, hopefully the devs get to fixing most of the simple yet annoying issues that seem to annoy many, and then we can live happily ever after in our own personal slice of the galaxy, or something.

 

[N-Zed]

No idea, I don't really keep up with SC news - I was just commenting on the OPs constant SC references.

I don't think I mentioned SC all that much in this did I? I forget now. Don't get me wrong, I really like ED, for a multitude of reasons. I wanted to get insight on what players think about how the size of the map may or may not affect game play. Didn't expect so much heat to come off of this one, but here we are.

 

[Kars Vandor]

maybe try EVE Online. seems like more your flavor.

Cutthroat? sire. I played 10 hours before my install broke, got interdicted three times, escaped once shot down twice. poor helpless starter ship with a pilot with 2 hours of training, no voice attack, and a stick,mouse and keyboard. nobody took my cargo. Pretty cutthroat to me.

In that time, I didn't have enough to mine, but I explored 3 systems, found some cargo, blackboxes. illegal, so along with being a pilot, and explorer, i was also a smuggler.

flying to dock, i was spotted by a patrol. I instantly got fined 6K. Then interdicted a half hour later trying to find a port to sell the boxes on. But i escaped.

sold the boxes. saved up the money, tried to do a mission, taking clothing. did not know how the cargo system worked thought i had to buy it myself. canceled contract got fined, now i was a pirate/smuggler.

flew out got killed. now i was a victim.

that's a bonus because there's a lot of cargo hauling victims right, but I didn't see that on the ad you showed, so it's an easter egg for me, i get to play the victim to people who blow me up, with those players all the while secretly or openly hating that there is not more easy blowing up of real players.

But I'm good with it.

Oh, and i do not think i am captain Kirk, flying around.

I'm commander Vandor.

I'm not trying to be Kirk. I'm living the dream I had as a kid when i first got a telescope, and saw the moons of Jupiter, live, in space, across a few billion miles. real places i wanted to go.

It's a game. but the subconscious can't distinguish the imagined from the real. This is why playing First person shooters gets your adrenalin going.

All of the stuff they say they will build will come in time.. how do i know this?

I can see what they've done already. If they can do that, they can do more.

I played EVE since 2006.

i recall at the beginning it was- here's a ship smack on the butt and good luck kid, don't sail into .4 security space.

Now it's videos and turtorials and skill ships and salvage and huge factions and 100 ship battles. but it took time to get all of that in play.

I got patience. I like the views of space, and the noises of supercruise.

I just today rigged up voice attack and was amazed.

Those who can't wait, right on, bail and ask for a refund. I've said elsewhere, I'm here for the long haul, despite my install being broken the last 5 days. how boring must that be for me? not at all.

I've been practicing the combat tutorials, and rigging up my voice attack profile, using the voice of the AI desktop assistant that I built on my laptop a year ago.

I'm retired from the military. I've seen planes crash and people who lost a hand or a foot or killed. All of that pales in comparison as excitement for the POSITIVE things that will happen here.. IF it doesn't collapse.

I see people here proud to show their 3000 plus dollar gaming rigs who want to be explorers and bounty hunters, and traders.

And I am one of those guys that is never bored, because i always have something i can do; writing, art, or just watching a movie or working on the PC I am building that i bought Just to play this.

I know I am not alone, and there are people very much like me, roleplayers, space enthusiasts or just PC gamers who got tired of the cubicle dwelling life of the IT professional some years ago. maybe they still do it, but at night? they are flying past next start to the right, and straight on until morning.

See you all out there.

 

[Kars Vandor]

that blank billboard is a lot more useful than an A5 that's all printed over already.

great analogy, totally agree.

 

[N-Zed]

Kars did they finally help you get the install working as intended?