Oh, that's interesting. Along with the ability for players to create bases and stuff out there tehy say they want to add, things in distant systems will really pick up.
400+ Billion Stars but to what end?
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Oh, that's interesting. Along with the ability for players to create bases and stuff out there tehy say they want to add, things in distant systems will really pick up.
I support every opinion said in this thread, and I am shocked at how large the discussion has grown - very inspiring. I do think that NeilF has raised a VERY important note. He postulates that yes, the vastness is important, but the execution is lacking in terms of scope, depth, and honestly "stuff". I understand there is a divide between those who want the truest form of space simulation currently possible, and those who are more interested in an epic adventure that teams with daring, intrigue and danger - and of course those like myself who are aiming somewhere down the middle (don't harp on this example, I know they're permutations of what kinds of players are out there more vast than the scale galaxy itself. Moving on...) NeilF wants more inside what is already MASSIVE amounts of space, but what he asks for is not unreasonable nor would it hurt the fabric of the galaxy and would coexist with it. Player's get the freedom AND the mystery if there were more inhabiting these empty zones. I see nothing wrong with that, and in fact fully support it. SPACE TRASH ME BABY!
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It's got 400 billion stars because the real galaxy has 400 billion stars. They were not created with a purpose in mind either, AFAIK.
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No other space sim conveys the unimaginable vastness of space and also its unimaginable beauty. You can set off and fly for weeks, if not months, on a solitary journey and suddenly come across a sight that is so unexpectedly beautiful that it leaves you speechless. And nobody has seen it but you. These procedurally crafted systems lay dormant in the server, possibly never to become shape and light on a screen; to remain undiscovered and unwitnessed forever, just some unknown bytes in a machine. But you found them; only you, and like a waveform collapsing under your observation their quantum state shifted from bytes to pixels and blazed into being. Their sight is yours alone. They dance for no one but you.
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It is as close as you can get to what it must feel like to explore the stars. For that alone Elite Dangerous is not just a game; it is a work of art.
Bingo!
It wouldn't let me give you rep, so I quoted you instead!
There's some very interesting and thought-provoking posts on here.
Putting it back in black and white, 2 things
- You need more than a million stars to give anyone "later", a chance of exploring an undiscovered system
- The general estimation that there's 100-400 bn stars in the Milky Way
If anything, they could've settled on 100bn. At these scales it doesn't make a huge amount of difference. Having 300bn perhaps scaled better with frame shift drive limits and whatnot, in relation to all the other scales.
Putting it back in black and white, 2 things
- You need more than a million stars to give anyone "later", a chance of exploring an undiscovered system
- The general estimation that there's 100-400 bn stars in the Milky Way
If anything, they could've settled on 100bn. At these scales it doesn't make a huge amount of difference. Having 300bn perhaps scaled better with frame shift drive limits and whatnot, in relation to all the other scales.
It would be pretty neat if the game allowed explorers to actually be named as the first to find a system or what have you. A tag on the system map (discovered by CMDR xxxx) that way you have both the bragging rights, and incentive to go out as a game mechanic, again I stress the GAME aspect and not the philosophical implications. Having your name written in the stars is not too shabby I'd think.
So okay, we have the billions upon billions of stars, that for all intents and purposes are there just well... because they are. All good. We can choose to go to them on the fringe or stay clustered with our brethren in the "core" base systems. Also good.
Do you think it would even be possible for Frontier to develop enough material and content to occupy enough star systems to entice player groups to re-assign to a new area?
This is NOT a hardcoded MMO like the WoWs, FFXIVs, and what have you I get that, but when you accept there will be core systems everyone clusters to for the social bindings and activity - is it out of turn to think it would be possible for these "Space Cities" to migrate and travel around the galaxy? Where once we all called location A "home", over time we drift due to story, influence, cataclysmic event - location B which may very well be 1000s of LY away? Will our hubs drift and use more of this space, or do you think they will remain relatively stationary?
Things to think about.
So okay, we have the billions upon billions of stars, that for all intents and purposes are there just well... because they are. All good. We can choose to go to them on the fringe or stay clustered with our brethren in the "core" base systems. Also good.
Do you think it would even be possible for Frontier to develop enough material and content to occupy enough star systems to entice player groups to re-assign to a new area?
This is NOT a hardcoded MMO like the WoWs, FFXIVs, and what have you I get that, but when you accept there will be core systems everyone clusters to for the social bindings and activity - is it out of turn to think it would be possible for these "Space Cities" to migrate and travel around the galaxy? Where once we all called location A "home", over time we drift due to story, influence, cataclysmic event - location B which may very well be 1000s of LY away? Will our hubs drift and use more of this space, or do you think they will remain relatively stationary?
Things to think about.
> Do you think it would even be possible for Frontier to develop enough material and content to occupy enough star systems to entice player groups to re-assign to a new area?
Definitely. As mentioned earlier there are cordoned off sections of the galaxy just now, most surely for new content/civs/ideas to be placed in. Having 2 separate centres of population would add a whole dynamic in itself (needing better frame shift, possible worm holes, whether it's worthwhile having a utility ship parked on either side and an explorer ship to go between).
The potential is there and I hope that the game dev fulfils most player's expectations.
The galaxy is mind blowingly big to the point of meaningless, and if we'd already populated it all we'd be onto the next challenge (another galaxy)
Definitely. As mentioned earlier there are cordoned off sections of the galaxy just now, most surely for new content/civs/ideas to be placed in. Having 2 separate centres of population would add a whole dynamic in itself (needing better frame shift, possible worm holes, whether it's worthwhile having a utility ship parked on either side and an explorer ship to go between).
The potential is there and I hope that the game dev fulfils most player's expectations.
The galaxy is mind blowingly big to the point of meaningless, and if we'd already populated it all we'd be onto the next challenge (another galaxy)
I read recently where another space sim tried this, cool at first, but then the galaxy started to fill with names for genitalia, sex acts, and overall rudosity. So that game killed it. Cant recall which, might have been No Man's Sky?
Can you have such names as your CMDR in E|D? Also, if you have such a name, I'm sure you might be in it for the pew-pew rather than exploring the galaxy.
Yes. And SC is going that direction too, but system names will be reviewed before going live.
ollobrains
Banned
N
ah no mans sky is still in a pre release stage, theres not even a playable alpha. Theres nothing else out there except drifter but its 10000 sytems and in beta on steam. then theres limit theory which is a one man show but is close to releaise and promises to be a small challanger for elite D
Again, from my personal point of view, I see nothing silly about Elite having 400 billion star systems. I knew before I even bought the game that I wouldn’t see it all. But, I wanted the experience of exploration to feel real, deep, and seemingly endless. That’s what I always look for in a space game. It’s a reason why I loved Starflight, Star Control 2, and Evochron Mercenary. So, no, I don’t think that’s too much for a game.
And the comparison I was trying to draw between Skyrim and Elite was the same comparison I trying to draw between Wind Waker and Elite, and Starflight and Elite; which is that feeling you get when you have a true first glimpse at the world you’re going to have to explore and survive in; the wonder and awe and a certain measure of intimidation; and feeling small compared to the world around you. Yeah, Skyrim isn’t Elite, I know that. But that feeling is something all those games made me feel. That’s the connection. That’s the comparison.
Frontier Developments said that more content will be added to the Milky Way. You don’t have to hope for that, it’s part of the deal. I think generating a galaxy of 400 billion stars with as much modern astronomical data as is available is a very impressive start. And who’s to say that more variety won’t be added to the planets? Who’s to say that Frontier is going to leave the galaxy as it is? They put a 400 billion star galaxy out there, which gives us lots of time to explore and build rep and rank and become good at the game before they give us planet landings, the ability to walk on planets, hunt on them, mine them, or just gawk like tourists.
Don’t be so quick to judge the game as DOA because it doesn’t instantly have:::
It takes time to program all that stuff and add fine touches. I think what we got right out the box is pretty impressive stuff. When you take into account that FD did say more goodies were coming, then I can’t see the big issue. I’m glad you guys are posting ideas like what was quoted above, but Elite isn’t in a bad spot. As long as they continue adding to their universe, then I’m along for the ride. They already have the 400 billion stars out there, so at least we know they don’t have to add any more star systems. The foundation has been made, let’s see how they dress it.
In Evochron Mercenary players could build bases, and it was pretty cool. I’d love to see that happen in ED eventually.
I don’t think it’s necessary to question whether a person is truly happy with their experience if, well, they’re happy with their experience. I enjoy Elite as it is, as do many others. That’s not to say we all shun change. That’s not to say we’re somehow happy being bored, or see no reason to improve the game. I want the game to grow, to live up to its full potential. But that doesn’t happen overnight. Until FD drops those depth-providing expansions and updates, I’ll continue playing, enjoying myself, and coming to these forums to provide feedback to Frontier and help my fellow commanders.
I remember when I first arrived in these forums, there were all these Elite purists saying that “if you don’t like it, go play something else, like Eve.” It was a condescending attitude meant to shield the game from any and all change and criticisms. Now you are behaving similarly, where if people don’t agree with what you want, then they somehow “don’t get it”. If you think it’s too bland, then that’s your opinion. I love Elite, I want more depth and detail to the galaxy, but it won’t happen overnight, and won’t happen at all if people are not willing to compromise a little. Elite didn’t live up to my 100% ideal vision of the Milky Way Galaxy, but no space game could satisfy that ideal vision.
The setting of a story can be of the utmost importance. Especially for explorers, the attempt to model our own galaxy has complete relevancy.
Yep. I think many of us agree with this (and I think that’s the point the poster was making).
Thumbs up, man! Point well put.
Another excellently worded post that made your point without anger.
Another well-put post. I’m all about depth.
Another good post with excellent points. When the simulation is smoothed out, I could easily see groups migrating from one part of space to another. Over time, as expansions are released, I think this concept will become very interesting and immersive. Best of all, they have plenty of places to go when/if they do migrate.
Just to sum it up, I love Elite Dangerous, and knowing that more content will be added makes me love it more. The Elite galaxy does need more fine touches on astronomical bodies for variety, but I suppose it doesn't bother me because I know they will add more stuff.
It's made this way so I can claim my own little corner of the galaxy with ~54 star systems and call it Petoria.
In Peter we trust, look there is even a flag:
In Peter we trust, look there is even a flag:
I was under the impression that is intentional.
If your idea of "content" is limited to blowing up or otherwise controlling the actions of other players, I could see your problem. But I think overall maybe you just need to look at it from a different angle. Not all content is going to be diluted. Not to belabor the obvious but most of space is empty. I really doubt FD are going to spread out any new content all over the galaxy; most of it is almost certainly going to remain empty...and that is fine because content for a non-explorer might be events going on across dozens or perhaps even hundreds of systems, but for an explorer, that is a weekend.
True, but the game is released now, with hundreds of thousands of people playing it.
I took a break leading upto release, and I must admit now, just over a month from release the game is starting to wear a little thin for me due to how "thin" the gameplay, occupations and experience seemingly are. Depth needs to be injected across the board, starting soon IMHO.
As an example, I've spent the last few days looking for combat zones, which I've not tried since well before release. Yesterday I finally found one and within an hour or so was very "been there done that!" As if to demonstrate the lack of depth, consider the missions for combat zones. The Federation for example "employ" you to go to a zone and kill five ships. It doesn't matter which. You could kill five Federation ships for all they care. It's that "thin."
I'll soon have enough money to buy a Python, but TBH I'm not sure what the point will be in getting it. I'm hoping the "Wings" enhancement at least means playing with my friends adds some depth/interest.
ps: And I'll still swear combat in B1.06 was more interesting!
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A lot of game developers don't know how to make games any more, they don't really understand what a game really is. Too much technology just obfuscates their minds, they mistake fluffy for gameplay.
The fluffly shock and awe is gone after a few hours of gaming, the same will happen when we have realistic virtual reality. But that game does not make! To substitute rich gaming experience they invented 'the grind', a mindless purposeless 'mind and carrot' design to keep players playing their 'games' for longer periods. After a certain time players start hating that and abandon the ship with words of hate, you can see in literally 90% of the games released nowadays, it happens all the time. And happens because is not fun! It does not provide real entertainment or challenge, is just like being an industrial production chain, a chore.
When we get developers to learn to prioritize between the fluffy that sells well initially on first impressions and the gameplay we will get better games. But I cannot entirely blame them, as the consumers are too kin on buying games based on 'fluffy' first impressions, instead of analytically reviewing the prospects of the game they are buying.
As it stands ED could be potentially at excellent game full of rich gameplay, but now is just a skeleton, still in beta, released too early because marketing/financial pressure, with plenty of buggy features that do not even work as intended, and an outstanding lack of richness, mainly driven by 'the grind gameplay'.
The fluffly shock and awe is gone after a few hours of gaming, the same will happen when we have realistic virtual reality. But that game does not make! To substitute rich gaming experience they invented 'the grind', a mindless purposeless 'mind and carrot' design to keep players playing their 'games' for longer periods. After a certain time players start hating that and abandon the ship with words of hate, you can see in literally 90% of the games released nowadays, it happens all the time. And happens because is not fun! It does not provide real entertainment or challenge, is just like being an industrial production chain, a chore.
When we get developers to learn to prioritize between the fluffy that sells well initially on first impressions and the gameplay we will get better games. But I cannot entirely blame them, as the consumers are too kin on buying games based on 'fluffy' first impressions, instead of analytically reviewing the prospects of the game they are buying.
As it stands ED could be potentially at excellent game full of rich gameplay, but now is just a skeleton, still in beta, released too early because marketing/financial pressure, with plenty of buggy features that do not even work as intended, and an outstanding lack of richness, mainly driven by 'the grind gameplay'.
I think I have to agree...
To think we don't even have basic things such as:-
- Multi game-slots: ie: So we can have a number of different CMDRs/games on the go at once. And we must must MUST be able to transfer funds between them. I've done the startup grind more than enough now, so I never want to do it again. I'd simply want to chuck 5mCR across from an existing slot to a new slot. Done! Please don't force yet more grind!
- Ship transport: We're leaving orphaned ships around the universe, unable to get them transported to our new location 1000lr away. We need to be able to pay for them to be moved around.
- Cockpitless/HUD'less screen shots: OK, we don't have an external view feature, but at least let us take a "nose-cam" screen shot without the cockpit & HUD in the way.
- Working Coms: Even trying to chat to friends in a group doesn't work.
...and let's not even consider how simple/limited many of the "careers" truly are.
ps: I also think combat has gone backwards. I'll swear it felt more interesting in earlier Betas.
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+1 for those requests.