400+ Billion Stars but to what end?
- Thread starter N-Zed
- Start date
Really? We already know:-
- planets even in this system have aurora borealis and huge magnetic storms.
- some moons have ice geysers leaving trails behind them
- in the original Elite game there are ancient generation ships (now out of date) supposedly out in the galaxy on long journeys. Give us that 1 in 10,000 chance of bumping into one in a USS?
Wouldn't you like more variety and interest both visually and maybe even adding game mechanics?:-
- Odd huge asteroids with tunnels into their interiors (maybe even markings/glowing crystals inside) - Could contain periodic rare items? People turning up and fighting over them?
- Comets that can even be scanned and/or form a part of a mission (eg: go and find it in a system and scan it).
- Wouldn't you like to travel to that remote system to see the wrecked space elevator on a moon, destroyed in a previous war?
- Wouldn't you like a chance when in a remote system you might just get a distress signal asking for help, again injecting some variety and alternative game mechanic.
Are you really happy that hundreds of billions of systems will offer no variety other than number, size and colour of balls?
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Lol, because you CAN"T. Not if you lived for 10,000 years. All 300,000 player combined couldn't if they played for the rest of their lives.
By your logic the game would be even better if there were one trillion systems. But it wouldn't, just as the game wouldn't be worse if it only had 0ne billion. It would be the same, a randomly generated game that no one will ever see. And if no one will ever see 90% of it, what good does it do you that its there?
You like the abstract idea of it, nothing more. Because there is nothing more.
What exploration needs is new and deeper system maps.
I would love to have a magnetic map of systems, showing magnetic "battles" between stelar bodies.
I would love to have a gravitational map of systems, showing gravitational wells of bodies in relation with each others.
I would love to have a weather map for planets and gas giants, showing winds in the upper atmosphere (Neptune), special storms (Jupiter's red eye), dust devils (Mars) and so on.
Magnetic and gravitational maps would be "easy" to do, since the data already exist.
Weather map would require imagination and a bit more work, relatively.
But again, i know nothing about coding and making games.
I would love to have a magnetic map of systems, showing magnetic "battles" between stelar bodies.
I would love to have a gravitational map of systems, showing gravitational wells of bodies in relation with each others.
I would love to have a weather map for planets and gas giants, showing winds in the upper atmosphere (Neptune), special storms (Jupiter's red eye), dust devils (Mars) and so on.
Magnetic and gravitational maps would be "easy" to do, since the data already exist.
Weather map would require imagination and a bit more work, relatively.
But again, i know nothing about coding and making games.
The premise is simply that ED has the most accurate representation of our galaxy in any computer game, based upon current data. That data suggests that our galaxy has 400 billion stars in it, with X chance of gas giants, planets, asteroids etc. And it IS still just a game. And you are totally right of course, but that's missing the point that we're tiny little people in a huge galaxy in real life, and Braben/FDEV have chosen our galaxy as our sandbox. One trillion wouldn't be better. Just less accurate!
Once we exceed the level of complexity in Frontier (for example landings, mining robots, element-rich supernovae and more), then it will serve more of a purpose I think, but there will always by definition of scale be places that no-one has ever visited.
ollobrains
Banned
The premise is simply that ED has the most accurate representation of our galaxy in any computer game, based upon current data. That data suggests that our galaxy has 400 billion stars in it, with X chance of gas giants, planets, asteroids etc. And it IS still just a game. And you are totally right of course, but that's missing the point that we're tiny little people in a huge galaxy in real life, and Braben/FDEV have chosen our galaxy as our sandbox. One trillion wouldn't be better. Just less accurate!
Once we exceed the level of complexity in Frontier (for example landings, mining robots, element-rich supernovae and more), then it will serve more of a purpose I think, but there will always by definition of scale be places that no-one has ever visited.
we need a slow and steady expansion of gameplay features
Do you think we will ever explore all 400+B stars in the ED galaxy? I wonder to what end that ceases to be a selling point and turns into a detriment. Lot of space for a lot of nothing to happen in. Is there inherent value in touting such a high number of PG stars in the virtual sky? Is it the notion that you could maybe, possibly be the one to see that one spec of space before any one or ever again? How do we as players not get ourselves dispersed, lost and ultimately unphased by that vastness of untapped space when most of our interactions require instanced and generated interactions with other humans / NPCs to advance?
To what end does it matter how big this place really is?
ED simulates the actual Milky Way and is more of a space-sim than a game such as Freelancer, Privateer etc. We do not need other humans or npcs to advance our characters, there are no levels, there are no "end game" raids. We are given a ship, a fistful of credits and told "go play" in proper sandbox style. That is why I bought in to the game, not for shiney-bling planets and lootz.
A suggestion of mine was to increase SC speeds by allowing a slingshot vector to be shown/used around a star/planet. It would be nice if you scanned an object if a slingshot trajectory/vector was shown/calculated around it based on your next target (eg: a star 20,000ls away) which would increase your SC acceleration so you could cover (at least the first half of) the journey quicker.
While not exactly along the lines of your gravitational map, at least it is trying to use gravity to expand/improve/deepen existing mechanics - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94624
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TBH, we already need them IMHO. So the sooner the better!
People are actively out there exploring and flying around the ED universe right now. But at the moment they have passive coloured balls and little else.
If over the next 6 months the universe is fleshed out to add more dynamic/interesting procedural content (eg: magnetic storms on some planets), and even more interesting more hand crafted content (eg: asteroid with tunnels you can fly into to get rare items, or distress signals in remote systems), it could be considered by some, a little too late. ie: Those individuals who have explored a 1000 systems, would have missed the content that has since been introduced into them...
I'm not bothering to explore much at the moment, simply because I'm hoping FD deepen the sand in the sandbox before I go out into it
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It's got 400 billion stars because the real galaxy has 400 billion stars. They were not created with a purpose in mind either, AFAIK.
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No other space sim conveys the unimaginable vastness of space and also its unimaginable beauty. You can set off and fly for weeks, if not months, on a solitary journey and suddenly come across a sight that is so unexpectedly beautiful that it leaves you speechless. And nobody has seen it but you. These procedurally crafted systems lay dormant in the server, possibly never to become shape and light on a screen; to remain undiscovered and unwitnessed forever, just some unknown bytes in a machine. But you found them; only you, and like a waveform collapsing under your observation their quantum state shifted from bytes to pixels and blazed into being. Their sight is yours alone. They dance for no one but you.
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It is as close as you can get to what it must feel like to explore the stars. For that alone Elite Dangerous is not just a game; it is a work of art.
Beautifully put .....
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ollobrains
Banned
yes i think a rapid transition to colony expansion - and colonies dying and becoming economic wastelands if the players wish to do that to. More outpost types would also be a good idea plus a transition for terraforming candidate to terraforming to colony. For some outside planets to suffer atompsheric damage from space weather perhaps. Population and living conditions going up and down. Factions setting up scout outposts, prison colonies, who would have specific missions and have very limtied supply and demand ( unless they of course had enough wealth to grow)
The area where most people are and can be found in is the small inhabited bubble which propably doesnt take even 100k systems? Only explorers will get further and they know they'll mostly be alone. You're on a relatively "small continent", with a humongous "ocean" around it. You're free to or not to go. And with time there should be a little more out there than just "water". If you want player interractions stay in the core, stay close to those systems the galnet is talking about, or near the starting region. You do find players in a 400 billion stars galaxy when most stay in parts of a bubble of ~220LY in radius.
It would have been very different if there were stations and humans all around. Now i hope humans dont expand too quickly but so far going from one border of human space to the other doesnt take that much effort, especially when you get to 25/30LY of jump range.
Anyway Elite has never been about a small playing field.
It would have been very different if there were stations and humans all around. Now i hope humans dont expand too quickly but so far going from one border of human space to the other doesnt take that much effort, especially when you get to 25/30LY of jump range.
Anyway Elite has never been about a small playing field.
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I think ther crux of NeilF's posts is no so much player interaction as environment interaction for those hardy fools who want to explore the edge of the wonderful systems in place at the moment.
Seeing something different, or even the chance of seeing something different would be a nice fillip to players like me, I think.
Seeing something different, or even the chance of seeing something different would be a nice fillip to players like me, I think.
I love the vastness of space in this game! You can allways feel that there is more out there if you tire of trading, combating etc. Perhaps in future patches and expansions they will add more content and happenings to unexplored space. I think that it would be awesome to find a earthlike planet some 500 ly away which upon there is ancient ruins from some other unknown civilisation. Most epic would be to actually find some other living civilisation of some alienspecies. Perhaps some prespaceage civilisation that you cant interact with, just watch from afar and read about in the scanlog. It should be possible to traverse space and happen to find a massive star thats going nebula just when one arrives, then you die but in a cool way. There is so much possible to do in this Elite Dangerous universe and I cant wait to see what the devs come up with in the future of the game. If there is strange things going on in unexplored systems, randomized events and so on, then at least I would bravely go where no one ever has gone before..
At the moment, there really isn't anything out there of course (along those lines)...
But yes, even just finding a remote planet, where sometimes, on the night side you can see a few city lights? And maybe sometimes, there's USS around the planet, which are nothing more that simple satellites? You could maybe cargo scoop these and sell them as rares? Any sort of simple visual/game mechanics like this just to add some variation and depth to the ED universe.
Or a couple of planets/moons with wrecked/dead planetary rings around them. Or a wrecked/dead space elvator.
Hell if space elevators are do'able, but some around the inhabited galaxy as a new station type?
Anything! We need lots of little touches visually and game mechanic wise to actually make exploration (& space flight) more interesting/deeper.
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One idea is that the further you go out and explore, the weirder and more rare these USS type encounters could become. You might meet aliens, you could come across new kinds of phenomenon not catalogued before. Strange structures not built by humans. Bizarre interdictions with strange effects which leave you confused and frightened. Etc.
Nailed with a Fusion powered nail gun.
Electrons come with one charge. Protons another. You're not happy with that either, right?
Stars are classified the way they are, and they are what they are. If you are not a fan of astronomy and planetology, and have no wish to see the next system, why are you here, exactly?
I like to see how the next orbit is configured, what junk is floating around, the choices I have to make when I am in a patrolled system, and find some frieghter's dumped cargo of goods. do i leave it or risk it?
If when flying around, all you see is "Colored balls" then that's all there is for you. I see.. possiblities, and challenges. Far flung worlds that we as a community will build, and create, and explore.
It will take some time, both to implement the code, and explore and harvest and manufacture.
I'm all for seeing how it goes instead of rejecting the future.
It's been out a month. 30 days. It is up to us all to decide what we want to do. Choose wisely.
I like atomic particles, I've never seen one at a scale that I can resolve.
I like Andromeda, I've seen it via telescope, I'll never go there, but one can ponder the life out there.
My bet is you've never seen your brain, directly. What good does it do? What are the neurons that make up the network that is you? What about them makes you, who You are?
The game would be neither better or worse with a million galaxies of a million stars each. this is the universe we live in. We will never see those stars. but out there, there is in all likelihood worlds teeming with life.
so what if we never meet them? Lucas made a billion dollars telling the stories of a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
Roddenberry brought the idea of a world where we get along, and conquer our petty squabbles and go forth, to explore strange new worlds.
I wonder if it's just a case of the people pondering the infinite are concerned that when they die, that's it. Likely true. But while i'm here, i'm living it.
And having the on board comp remind me to drop the landing gear is part of it. rigging up all the stuff for my pc to make it run this game better is all part of this experience.
Even posting here, meeting all of you pilots. It's epic. I want to meet the guy that met an astronaut. I met charlton heston.
A half dozen of my friends are space opera authors that play here, and they are all as equally as inspired as i am to even be here to even have a small chance to be a part of this.
What is here is not nothing. It's inspiration, it's a dream of a possible future, of a setting that was pretty good in 1984, and even better now.
If you walk in the desert and pick up a handful of sand it's a few thousand particles of silicon, and I don't know what else. I'm not a geologist.
But as part of a larger world, that sand is there and belongs to us, the people of earth, our home.
“It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.”
- One of the few humans (in fact, the first) to walk on the moon, Neil Armstrong
He was humbled by how big this whole place is. So am I. We'll get there. On multiple levels, we will.
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Agree, 100% Exactly.
This is good stuff with needed food shipments or people starve and it is abandoned for lack of support. shuttling prisoners to prison colonies getting interdicted by their gangs trying to break them out if your ship's hold.
Let's hope that's how it goes. That stuff is right up my alley on the economics sim side of it.