400+ Billion Stars but to what end?

[OnePercent]

Because why not? Are you arguing with real life and how the universe is so huge but to what end?

 

[N-Zed]

Because why not? Are you arguing with real life and how the universe is so huge but to what end?

Haha no I mean literally in the game, how would this affect actual game play. As I see it, right now it's completely irrelevant how big or small the play area is since most of the interactions happen in instances like USS or after you break out of hyperspace and enter into a star system. Active player limits, and the very nature of SC are to make it so each player can travel across very long distances. When the player base is spanned across, I am very interested in how that may affect things. No one will have any influence, power, control or dominance in this situation - again, for better or worse, it is up to the individual person to decide. I am hoping people will chime in with their take on how the 1:1 scale affects things, if at all, for them.

 

[Commander Azriel]

Me personally, why does the size of the game playing field matter? It only matters to me if it directly detracts of the gameplay mechanics and overall sense of community and unity inside the game world. I worry that overall, having a massive procedurally generated environment that is for all intents and purposes copy and paste, lends to a very empty feeling GAME. Note game, not theoretical thought experiment.

Enough with your incessant whining! Oops, sorry, lol. Let the soup geek tell you how wrong you are, because you enjoy games to ...umm...be games. If you like the idea that you can play this game for the rest of your natural life and never visit 399.9 billion of the systems, great for you. I don't mind, but it's only the idea that they are there that seems to matter.

The question is valid, to only reason for liking the fact they are there is for philosophical reasons. The fact that you like the idea that they are there, even though there are no gameplay reason for them to be there.

 

[Kars Vandor]

What affect will having such a large sandbox to play in, overall, affect player experience - for better or worse from a GAMEPLAY stand point.

Here it is. Truth, As i see it. I write this stuff for a secondary income:

At first there will be a stage which we as a community are barely entering now...Where there is all this space, freedom to just go out there, not be interfered with, fly as far and as long as you like. Limited only by return trips to dock at stations in what passes for controlled space.

There will not be any wars of any large size generated by players other than the you and me, let's fight.. because we wanna scrap and wave our manhood and compare sizes.

Major fights that do occur in that stage will be those generated by the lore and conflicts set up by the devs to get some action going, although it will probably feel artificially generated, and not spurred by economics, all feels the same. That could be.. rough guess 6 months to a year or more.

Stage 2 will be where there is the ability, either from discovery of alien outposts, or the ability to set up and run stations that buy cargoes and cartography / survey data. Then you'll get clusters of civilization spread out a few thousand light years apart. With the ability to build those stations will or should come the ability to control those stations and access. The devs might not go that way, I am not privy to their plans.
Call it a year to two.

Assuming for argument stage 2 passes then there will be a sort of setup in stage three where people will scout and find the most profitable clusters or worlds, and the easiest triangle trade routes to go to and from them.
That could be any time from now on, but probably not likely until 6 months to a year in at least, because we'll need a galactic encyclopedia / gazetteer to handle that data. the map might do that function.
Beyond that, guesswork, but the limit for all of this will be in they have wormholes or not.

if every system is set up along jump route lines and a string of pearls sort of clusters along those lines then the practical limit is speed of travel to and from the core, which I imagine until a secondary core of rich worlds is found, with be Sol / Terra.

if there are wormholes and large scale distance travel, it's anyone's game.

also, at any point the devs could dream up hostile or friendly aliens, rifts in space to channel movement whatever, to work along with their plans up to and including artificial or in game restrictions on interdicting lanes, routes, sectors, etc etc.

All depends on their plans.

Is that what you are asking?
If not, borders and polities will form, and eventually the whole setup will fragment because of distance.

Meanwhile, explorers will be pushing the limits of space.

I could be way off, but It will be something like that.

 

[Commander Azriel]

... you simply refuse to understand me in the least. Fine by me.

You said the game would 'bore you' if there were only 1 billion star systems, I'm sorry I don't understand you.

 

[N-Zed]

I am on the fence. I don't particularly feeling anything remotely close to philosophical euphoria from being in a PG simulated sandbox that more than half of which is pretty much made up. However, I DO like the idea that we have the option to explore it any way. Reality sets in at some point however, and I start to wonder if this is a good or bad thing. As it was posted before, I guess my question is premature since we just don't KNOW yet how things will be affected, but I was hoping for some kind of discussion on it. For the sake of argument, I choose to ignore any "Eurotruck Simulator" comparisons, since this game never claimed to be just space trucking - since it clearly has weaponry, stats, upgrades, and warring factions to build a "world" around. I think it safe to say FB always intended this to be a full on gaming experience, and not just a social experiment. I dunno, I could be way off base here.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Here it is. Truth, As i see it. I write this stuff for a secondary income:

At first there will be a stage which we as a community are barely entering now...Where there is all this space, freedom to just go out there, not be interfered with, fly as far and as long as you like. Limited only by return trips to dock at stations in what passes for controlled space.

There will not be any wars of any large size generated by players other than the you and me, let's fight.. because we wanna scrap and wave our manhood and compare sizes.

Major fights that do occur in that stage will be those generated by the lore and conflicts set up by the devs to get some action going, although it will probably feel artificially generated, and not spurred by economics, all feels the same. That could be.. rough guess 6 months to a year or more.

Stage 2 will be where there is the ability, either from discovery of alien outposts, or the ability to set up and run stations that buy cargoes and cartography / survey data. Then you'll get clusters of civilization spread out a few thousand light years apart. With the ability to build those stations will or should come the ability to control those stations and access. The devs might not go that way, I am not privy to their plans.
Call it a year to two.

Assuming for argument stage 2 passes then there will be a sort of setup in stage three where people will scout and find the most profitable clusters or worlds, and the easiest triangle trade routes to go to and from them.
That could be any time from now on, but probably not likely until 6 months to a year in at least, because we'll need a galactic encyclopedia / gazetteer to handle that data. the map might do that function.
Beyond that, guesswork, but the limit for all of this will be in they have wormholes or not.

if every system is set up along jump route lines and a string of pearls sort of clusters along those lines then the practical limit is speed of travel to and from the core, which I imagine until a secondary core of rich worlds is found, with be Sol / Terra.

if there are wormholes and large scale distance travel, it's anyone's game.

also, at any point the devs could dream up hostile or friendly aliens, rifts in space to channel movement whatever, to work along with their plans up to and including artificial or in game restrictions on interdicting lanes, routes, sectors, etc etc.

All depends on their plans.

Is that what you are asking?
If not, borders and polities will form, and eventually the whole setup will fragment because of distance.

Meanwhile, explorers will be pushing the limits of space.

I could be way off, but It will be something like that.

Thank you Kars, yes that is exactly the kind of input I was holding out for. I appreciate your time to post that. I hope others will chime in too with their opinions.

 

[ollobrains]

It would be interesting to see where players are going core, fringe or unsettled. And the meetins of the dvs as to what they want to work on each day week etc

 

[Commander Azriel]

It's much more basic than that. Like soup, it's not for everyone. Obviously, given your comments, this game is not for you. You don't seem to be having a very good time. Equally obvious, there are players who are having a great time. This game is for them.

Calling the people who are enjoying it sycophants is really rather pointless. I don't see how it furthers your point at all.

I enjoy it for what it is, fly around, sight seeing. Blow some stuff up, upgrade my ship. But sheer size doesn't impress me, depth does. I also understand that if I lived for 1,000 years I would never see 99% of this game. So I don't see any tangible benefit for it being there. I only see the drawback that it dilutes the limited content, and diminishes the amount of influence that the plays can have.

The game might as well be static, if we the player can have such little impact on it. The dynamic universe and faction influence were major selling points, but they have such little impact on the game.

Pointing out these short comings is called "incessant whiling"? And I'm accused of peeing in my own soup as if my issues with this game were of my own making, rather then a failure of the game designers.

 

[ollobrains]

I enjoy it for what it is, fly around, sight see. Blow some stuff up, upgrade my ship. But sheer size doesn't impress me, depth does. I also understand that if I lived for 1,000 years I would never see 99% of this game. So I don't see any tangible benefit for it being there. I only see the drawback that it dilutes the limited content, and diminishes the amount of influence that the plays can have.

The game might as well be static, if we the player can have such little impact on it. The dynamic universe and faction influence were major selling points, but they have such little impact on the game.

Pointing out these short comings is called "incessant whiling"? And I'm accused of peeing in my own soup as if my issues with this game were of my own making, rather then failure of the game designers.

They do need to enhance this element the mmo pve element seems important, and allowing expansion of space. More missions and more co op toys ie chat improvements, wings etc

 

[ket halpak]

...stuff...

This is exactly what I am thinking, it will be one hell of a ride

 

[Kars Vandor]

Social experiment is a good point. Given infinite space, what do players do with it?

A core group wants to fly out there and score stunning visuals. another group wants to make money / gamedollars. still another group wants to blow those people and each other to bits.

What I'm on is 5 years of Physics, some decades of Zen, and a near-lifetime (38 years total gaming) of science fiction RPG Refereeing. I started running Traveller at age 11 in 1977, with vector physics, which inspired me years later to actually study physics, and do space art. My space art is not that good, or realistic, but I'm learning.


I played the original Elite when it came out in 1984. Because it reminded me of Traveller.

so now I write sci fi and do space art. Waiting for my broken install to get fixed by the next patch.

 

[gumbie]

Me personally, why does the size of the game playing field matter? It only matters to me if it directly detracts of the gameplay mechanics and overall sense of community and unity inside the game world. I worry that overall, having a massive procedurally generated environment that is for all intents and purposes copy and paste, lends to a very empty feeling GAME. Note game, not theoretical thought experiment. I personally did not purchase ED solely for the "accurate" representation of our galaxy, but that we would be able to experience space travel and interact in ways we can't normally in real life using current technology and graphics. The selling point of it all being encompassed in a gigantic simulation of the galaxy first wowed me, then didn't phase me while playing, and now it starting to concern me.

Your issues with the game aren't caused by the simulation of the galaxy which is actually pretty good.

They are caused by the non-simulation of life in inhabited space.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Me personally, why does the size of the game playing field matter? It only matters to me if it directly detracts of the gameplay mechanics and overall sense of community and unity inside the game world. I worry that overall, having a massive procedurally generated environment that is for all intents and purposes copy and paste, lends to a very empty feeling GAME. Note game, not theoretical thought experiment. I personally did not purchase ED solely for the "accurate" representation of our galaxy, but that we would be able to experience space travel and interact in ways we can't normally in real life using current technology and graphics. The selling point of it all being encompassed in a gigantic simulation of the galaxy first wowed me, then didn't phase me while playing, and now it starting to concern me.

Thus the reason for the thread, to get insight from others about what they have to say about it.

Ah, gotcha.

Ok, my response then, its brilliant. It is empty... its a brilliant representation of the galaxy. FD have done something here very brave and bold. I doubt any AAA publisher would have touched this with a 10' pole of disarming. They took a risk, and it looks like it has paid off.

And even though the systems are mostly proceedurally generated, it doesn't feel repetitive, every new system i enter is an awesome discovery for me. Love seeing the variation in systems, and keeping an eye open for those special worlds, the earthlikes and similar.

 

[N-Zed]

Enough with your incessant whining! Oops, sorry, lol. Let the soup geek tell you how wrong you are, because you enjoy games to ...umm...be games. If you like the idea that you can play this game for the rest of your natural life and never visit 399.9 billion of the systems, great for you. I don't mind, but it's only the idea that they are there that seems to matter.

The question is valid, to only reason for liking the fact they are there is for philosophical reasons. The fact that you like the idea that they are there, even though there are no gameplay reason for them to be there.

haha yeah silly me. I still like the game though, what little of it there is is enough to bring be back and enough for me to care to ask these sort of question. I am sure I'm not the first nor will I be the last to bring it up either.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Your issues with the game aren't caused by the simulation of the galaxy which is actually pretty good.

They are caused by the non-simulation of life in inhabited space.

No, I am pretty sure my concern is with the actual game space. I can't really make myself any clearer here but I can try

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Ah, gotcha.

Ok, my response then, its brilliant. It is empty... its a brilliant representation of the galaxy. FD have done something here very brave and bold. I doubt any AAA publisher would have touched this with a 10' pole of disarming. They took a risk, and it looks like it has paid off.

And even though the systems are mostly proceedurally generated, it doesn't feel repetitive, every new system i enter is an awesome discovery for me. Love seeing the variation in systems, and keeping an eye open for those special worlds, the earthlikes and similar.

So for you it is all about the eye catching and ponderous nature of man versus the power of the universe. Certainly nothing wrong with that. Do you feel that is sufficient to sustain you through the game's natural life cycle or does that not matter to you? It's more of a personal journal I am assuming.

 

[OnePercent]

Haha no I mean literally in the game, how would this affect actual game play. As I see it, right now it's completely irrelevant how big or small the play area is since most of the interactions happen in instances like USS or after you break out of hyperspace and enter into a star system. Active player limits, and the very nature of SC are to make it so each player can travel across very long distances. When the player base is spanned across, I am very interested in how that may affect things. No one will have any influence, power, control or dominance in this situation - again, for better or worse, it is up to the individual person to decide. I am hoping people will chime in with their take on how the 1:1 scale affects things, if at all, for them.

No I was meaning to extened your argument into the real world. To what end is human life and progression of our civilisation in the REAL world seeing as the Universe is equally huge as the one presented in this game.

The answer was hidden in my question. Because there IS no end, there IS no point to it, It's what you make of it.

It is also a bragging right that frontier developments use in their marketing campaign. But the answer has always been, There is no point, it's because we can and will.

 

[Kars Vandor]

I'm accused of peeing in my own soup as if my issues with this game were of my own making, rather then a failure of the game designers.

Yes. Because there are others that do not have the same issues, meaning your issues are base in perception of the reality, which some find quite engaging, and inspiring. you don't. You want it to be different, and find fault with the lack of content currently, In the end how much content will be enough, for you personally?

At what point will stunning visuals, gameplay interaction, and whatever else triggers you think you need to give yourself permission to like it?

I'm going with this this is what it is. there's 400 billino worlds here. That's great. Tickets are slow, that's great. I got blasted after an interdiction 4 days ago, that's great.

There is nowhere else in the planet i can have this experiience and i am choosing to be here, and look forward to a golden age of sc fi gaming with this, star citizen, no man's sky, and whatever else is coming down the road.

5 to ten years out there will be content here either procedurally, manually by humans, or artificially by AI or Near AI routines, maybe managed by humans.

I watched EVE online grow from nothing to what it is right now, and i'm glad i was part of the relatively early game in 2006. I have had some many wonderful, and dramatic experiences there, and met so many cool people, and participated in game events that were very, very cool.

This, if it does not collapse under the strain of a visionary not keeping up with customer service, has the potential to become more epic than EVE because it is not focussed on Dog eat dog hyper capitalism.

It, like no man's sky is a new paradigm. Allowing computers to create whole new world for us to imagine, and spend real world hours walking upon.

I've played Star trek online, and seen what can be done if people are willing to buy into it, and plumb the depth of having a character in a galaxy to be explored.
A whole team of people beaming down, solving problems, fixed in the setting, working together on alien worlds.

I watched men land on the moon when i was 3. I watched Kirk and Spock, take on the bad guys that same year.
I believed both and knew that both related to each other. They eventually named the real world shuttle Enterprise.

If it doesn't collapse, those days will come, here. It's a game but it can inspire.

Because it is a simulation and we are drawing in people who would rather live in space, displaced by accident of time of era of birth, or situation or circumstance. many of us would want to be bounty hunters, explorers, miners, pirates. and this will be the place to do it... again it if doesn't go to a house of cards. but with diligence, teamwork, and a dedicated fan base, I swear this place will endure as something wonderful, and marvelous.

Next up for me, day 5 on my game still broken,hoping to hear from the support team, that my problem has been fixed. people were up at i am guessing 2 AM? in the UK helping me.. But that's great.

It's not all sunshine and roses. But it doesn't have to be a steaming pile. I have a cat,it does it's business, I dump it out. That's great.

Did the game designers fail? It's a matter of perception. I'm not kidding.

 

[GlumReaper]

Most games don't give you this kind of freedom!

Except for Minecraft....

 

[ollobrains]

Except for Minecraft....

This equals minecraft in terms fo space, starmade is a sapce mincraft

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So for you it is all about the eye catching and ponderous nature of man versus the power of the universe. Certainly nothing wrong with that. Do you feel that is sufficient to sustain you through the game's natural life cycle or does that not matter to you? It's more of a personal journal I am assuming.

Not only that. Exploration is my main trade as it were, but when i'm in civilized space i break up my journeys with bounty hunting, running missions for the Empire, joining in conflicts. I'm also a bit of a RPer, so i have a lot of RP type thoughts going through my head, like building up the story of my commander and his life.

As for sustaining me, hell yes. For years. Especially with some of the planned expansions. I mean, the whole planetary landing things is going to be a massive bone for the explorers.

 

[Kars Vandor]

the whole planetary landing things is going to be a massive bone for the explorers.

*high five* Scouts, a la Traveller. Can't damn wait.