50,000+ tons of CMM Composite at 792t a trip = 64 trips. From the Port to the FC. 64 trips from the FC to the Colonization ship. 127 total trips.

Liquidor

L
Jinx Chrome said:
what's the size of their FSD and shields? ;)
Comparing land vehicles with space ships doesn't work in a linear fashion.
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I don’t think he was aiming to make a direct comparison between a space ship and a truck, but moreso the idea that, just like in the ‘real world’, if there is a demand for a certain type of vehicle, some company will jump in and statisfy that need. The niche example given was a semi with 3 trailers.

When compared to E: D, it would make sense from a logical but also a roleplay perspective, that ship building companies such as Lakon would react to the frontier of system colonization by designing/building/selling ships that accommodate this need.

I mean, they were bright enough to see a lucrative option in the Medium sized market and as such designed the Type-8. Let them come with a Type-11!

Thinking about how they handle this in EVE online..
Would these new cargo ships still count as ‘L’? Though? #daretodream, what if they intruded ‘XL’ ships? Then you could also ‘solve’ the problem of this new ship becoming the meta for all others, since it would sit in its own category. You could also argue that such large ships should not enter mailslots, but rather dock externally. This gives options to decide where such an ‘XL’ ship can go and park. Maybe only at an Orbis and at fleet carriers? External docking could also mean that you can only GET stuff from the station (fuel, ammo, commodities), but you can not Give or Sell anything to the station. Only at a fleet carriers can you both load and unload, perhaps? This way you can limit how XL cargo ships get used.

At this point I should head to the suggestions forum :p
 

Jinx Chrome

Jinx Chrome
Liquidor said:
I don’t think he was aiming to make a direct comparison between a space ship and a truck, but moreso the idea that, just like in the ‘real world’, if there is a demand for a certain type of vehicle, some company will jump in and statisfy that need. The niche example given was a semi with 3 trailers.

When compared to E: D, it would make sense from a logical but also a roleplay perspective, that ship building companies such as Lakon would react to the frontier of system colonization by designing/building/selling ships that accommodate this need.

I mean, they were bright enough to see a lucrative option in the Medium sized market and as such designed the Type-8. Let them come with a Type-11!

Thinking about how they handle this in EVE online..
Would these new cargo ships still count as ‘L’? Though? #daretodream, what if they intruded ‘XL’ ships? Then you could also ‘solve’ the problem of this new ship becoming the meta for all others, since it would sit in its own category. You could also argue that such large ships should not enter mailslots, but rather dock externally. This gives options to decide where such an ‘XL’ ship can go and park. Maybe only at an Orbis and at fleet carriers? External docking could also mean that you can only GET stuff from the station (fuel, ammo, commodities), but you can not Give or Sell anything to the station. Only at a fleet carriers can you both load and unload, perhaps? This way you can limit how XL cargo ships get used.

At this point I should head to the suggestions forum :p
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Really good ideas! They just won‘t solve the core problem of Colonisation: the monotony of only hauling goods.
 

Dillon Fallon

Dillon Fallon
Happy Daze said:
If it holds 1500 tons of cargo I'm happy. Now, when is that coming out???
Stay Frosty
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Given that apparently whenever someone says Panther Clipper, release gets pushed back 6 months, probably around the real time year of 3312 at this stage.

Or did I just push it to 3313 by saying Panther Clipper again?
 

Liquidor

L
Jinx Chrome said:
Really good ideas! They just won‘t solve the core problem of Colonisation: the monotony of only hauling goods.
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True. I guess E: D has always been about finding a balance between realism and fantasy (and what’s practically/technologically achievable for Fdev).
For ‘real world’ big constuction projects, hauling all that concrete is also dull as hell. Thats why it’s pretty much perfected to the extent its possible.
You could argue “Hauling that much stuff is boring so please change it”. On the same token you could argue “Having to make 300 jumps to get from starting point to SagA* is boring so please have the Sidewinder have a jumprange of 300ly”.
But you could also argue “Given that a part of constructing such big structures is hauling a lot of commodities (more so than E: D has ever seen so far) please give us some renewed and more efficient ways to do it”

Edit: and as someone already pointed out, even though most of us like to have our own little baby system(s), I’m not sure Fdev ever intended on CMDRs wanting to claim, architect ánd supply colonized systems alone and on their own. But admittedly that’s an assumption on my side, I’ve only gotten back to E: D quite recently so I don’t know all the ins and outs.
 

vicwarrior

vicwarrior
Like making FCs able to "mass driver" "shuttle transfer" or just give the cans to joe witht he big arm so that he can yeet them directly at the construction site?

Could be a bandaid to avoid double hauling goods, althought i would insist that a better way to go about it would be to allow to leverage local economies. Zones already in economically diverse areas should of course be easier to develop by having minor factions send stuff from their markets... for favours of course...
That way theres more of a reward to developing an economy, or being interested in your neighbours and helping them develop what you lack so that you can further leverage them for your own developments, saving you hauling... But only so much, if the construction costs get rebalanced across economies (instead of being 90% refinery) and you lack some economy in particular (or its too weak and its markets are perpetually drained) you still have to haul stuff in (or wait for them to refill while you do something else).

Yes, the current implementation of colonisation is the worst posible, really wishing fdev acknowledged that colonisation needs to get some flesh on its bones.
 

Landorin

L
Dillon Fallon said:
I don't understand why people are building tier 3 stations by themselves. Some form of self loathing I assume.

Although I do agree with us having a bigger cargo ship. Even an outpost is a good deal of hauling for one person, even compared to wing hauling missions.

Although if FDev made something that handled worse than a T-9 for shifting 1000t - 1200t, I guess that would just come with the territory.
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I wouldn't mind a bigger hauler in general either. :) I am not really the hauler player but when I do want to haul I do enjoy it while I dream of some Nostromo freighter for role playing purpose alone (but also efficiency). ;)

Though I agree. Being a long term veteran for quite some online games I do like the fact that you technically CAN build tier 3 stations all by yourself - it will just take a lot of effort and time. Many other online games restrict similar things to guilds only or make it practically impossible to do it all on your own. In general, building some big star port should take time and (coordinated) effort. After all, in reality such a big project would take a lot of time and resources. ;) Yet again, the fact ED at least gives the option doing it on your own at the cost of more time and effort is a great thing for an online game.

From a pure game design perspective someone above already summarized it decently: there gotta be a balance between "too easy / too fast" and "too grindy / too long". That balance has to also meet the balance of "keep players in the game / keep them interested to make money".
 

Jinx Chrome

Jinx Chrome
Liquidor said:
True. I guess E: D has always been about finding a balance between realism and fantasy (and what’s practically/technologically achievable for Fdev).
For ‘real world’ big constuction projects, hauling all that concrete is also dull as hell. Thats why it’s pretty much perfected to the extent its possible.
You could argue “Hauling that much stuff is boring so please change it”. On the same token you could argue “Having to make 300 jumps to get from starting point to SagA* is boring so please have the Sidewinder have a jumprange of 300ly”.
But you could also argue “Given that a part of constructing such big structures is hauling a lot of commodities (more so than E: D has ever seen so far) please give us some renewed and more efficient ways to do it”

Edit: and as someone already pointed out, even though most of us like to have our own little baby system(s), I’m not sure Fdev ever intended on CMDRs wanting to claim, architect ánd supply colonized systems alone and on their own. But admittedly that’s an assumption on my side, I’ve only gotten back to E: D quite recently so I don’t know all the ins and outs.
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You're absolutely right. And I am also completely against extreme jump ranges for exploration ships. Luckily, I am able to spice up my explorations with more variety (i.e. planetary exobio, stellar phenomena, the random DSSA or a beautful nebula). :)
I believe, a more efficient way to transport the goods won't change much of the monotony - if a player complains that it is boring to create a single orbis or, when made 10x easier, they won't stop and build 10 orbis - and complain again. I could say now that this is a self-imposed grind but I also understand those players pursuing a certain goal like reaching their favourite system or build something for their squadron. Personally, I believe that the colonisation rush will ebb down soon. Players will either return to previous game loops or mix them into Colonisation or abandon colonisation entirely.

I will try out that Colonisation game loop next year or so when the mechanics are mostly understood and bugs have been fixed. Meanwhile, my friend is waiting for the Corsair to be released next week and I have my Mandalay kitted out already, so we will do what a good Hitchhiker has got to do: Know where their towel is and travel. :)
 
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Exeider

Exeider
vicwarrior said:
That then calls for any future hauling thing to just be rebalanced around the new "meta" hauling capacity.

It would also be pretty scummy to design an entire mechanic around goddawful gameplay, consisting of hours of hauling borefest then sell a bandaid as a p2w ship, even if temporarily. Particularly condemnable in an already paid game.

It would make way more sense to redesign and rebalance colonisation so that people aren't bored to tears hauling crap for hours.
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There is a MUCH MUCH simpler solution here. A Staging Area installation. They should have a staging area installation or platform that you can put in one of your space slots OR have the platform spawn in the same instance as your "starting station".

You drop all goods you haul at this Staging Area. When you queue projects, it automatically pulls from the stores albeit with a timed delay (basically implying the NPCs are hauling the stuff across the system for you.)

This is how real construction projects work, they bring ALL supplies for everything to ONE spot, and then people there pull from it, as they need it.
 

Dragsham

Dragsham
What I'd like to see apart from a bigger hauler, npc assist, cmdr assist (salary based on how much they haul), is fleet carriers laden with loaded commodities, able to dock with construction sites and offload. Now that's neat.
 

damastes

D
To use a meme, We have one of those at home. It's called a Fleet Carrier. Problem is the gridlock around popular source systems and for some reason FCs are not treated by the game in the same way as stations. What I mean by this is that if you have an FC with a buy order for Steel at GalAvg+25% near a Station selling at GalAvg-10% logic dictates NPC pilots would be rushing to fill that order to make their living. This does not happen, I propose it should as it would provide a number of benefits;

  • Incentivises players to invest in a Fleet Carrier
  • Removes credits from the player economy
  • Drives local economy background simulation (FCs offering the highest value buy orders will be fulfilled first/faster)
  • Player can fly off and do something else while their carrier is being filled, or speed up the process by hauling goods themselves. Player choice.

Same would apply at the other end, sell order below the "buy price" of the construction zone, NPCs ship to construction site. The other option if this is too much would be the ability to, from the Fleet Carrier, create a buy order targettted at an in-system station or settlement and pay a fixed surcharge per ton to have it delivered to your FC. This would be less dynamic but would allow for targetted delivery at the other end.
 

EnmeiNZ

E
Another idea would be if we could hire NPC ships to haul cargo from our FCs to the settlements/ports we're building.
 

aRJay

aRJay
damastes said:
To use a meme, We have one of those at home. It's called a Fleet Carrier. Problem is the gridlock around popular source systems and for some reason FCs are not treated by the game in the same way as stations. What I mean by this is that if you have an FC with a buy order for Steel at GalAvg+25% near a Station selling at GalAvg-10% logic dictates NPC pilots would be rushing to fill that order to make their living. This does not happen, I propose it should as it would provide a number of benefits;

  • Incentivises players to invest in a Fleet Carrier
  • Removes credits from the player economy
  • Drives local economy background simulation (FCs offering the highest value buy orders will be fulfilled first/faster)
  • Player can fly off and do something else while their carrier is being filled, or speed up the process by hauling goods themselves. Player choice.

Same would apply at the other end, sell order below the "buy price" of the construction zone, NPCs ship to construction site. The other option if this is too much would be the ability to, from the Fleet Carrier, create a buy order targettted at an in-system station or settlement and pay a fixed surcharge per ton to have it delivered to your FC. This would be less dynamic but would allow for targetted delivery at the other end.
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The stations buy orders are not fulfilled by NPCs in ships any more than those in FCs are.

Goods appear and disappear in stations by the magic of its a game or by the actions of players.

Apart from shooting or being shot at NPC ships are pretty much cosmetic.
 

angusmadmac1

angusmadmac1
What ask for a bigger ship ?.why not go the whole hog and just ask for Fdev to drop the requirements down to say 700 t ? No bigger ship required . I mean let's make it easy enough to do in an hour full colonisation of a system .
If you don't want to haul don't colonise or you could help others ?
You don't have to do it ? Yeah I get it it's new stuff and you want to try it out at least once.
I admit I expected the requirements to be higher and not completed in a week or so, but admit that I'm just a different gamer.
 

veryDead

veryDead
All the complaining is by solo players trying to build systems alone.

Colonizing is not a solo effort and it should not be. It should be (and is) geared toward group effort. Go make some friends and share the effort. Four friends with t-9s can make very short work of even the big stations. A group of 10 or more is the best, it becomes a social event.
 

GroG79

G
veryDead said:
All the complaining is by solo players trying to build systems alone.

Colonizing is not a solo effort and it should not be. It should be (and is) geared toward group effort. Go make some friends and share the effort. Four friends with t-9s can make very short work of even the big stations. A group of 10 or more is the best, it becomes a social event.
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Yea we heard that about FCs too

So nope
 
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