53.59ly from a Mandalay? Really?

[Cmdr Snuffler]

A lot of builds you see for explorers are paper thin, which is "ok" for solo or PG.
Like others have mentioned, I also build explorers to be a bit more sturdy while sacrificing a small amount of jump range.
I don't see bi-weaves being useful for exploration, much prefer to use a smaller prismic, reinforced, with an e rated thermal booster. Generally equates to much, much, tougher shields.
Same for hull, Lightweight Reactive, with a single HRP engineered for thermal.
Also, almost all of my non combat ships use Engine enhanced engineering on the PD, which means I can always boost after 5s even with a smaller PD. No idea why people use charge enhanced, unless I'm missing something.
A rated engines are also a must, mainly because I don't want to fly like a snail when on a planet, plus has the added benefit of escaping an NPC or PvP combat scenarios.

As an example, taking Ian Doncasters Krait Phanton builds above, I would go for more something like this: https://s.orbis.zone/qAlD
Sure, it's lost 6ly jump range, but huge gains in shields, hull, top speed and boost. More survivable, certainly in Open mode.
At the end of the day build and engineer a ship that suits your flying/playing style. No one build is right, or wrong.

 

[Elpapo]

From what I've heard, a fully engineered D-Rated Mandalay with Guardian FSD Booster and outfitted as you would expect an exploration ship to be, is around 53.59ly jump range. Is this right?
If so, then FDev have royally screwed up IMO.

Didn't they say it would be on par with or just beat the Anaconda? Did they mean stock?

What a nonsense. That 53 ly mandy is not an exploration bulid, its more like random PVE bulid, that happen to be able to also explore, but certianly not optimized for sake of exploration by itself.

Donno whom you heard that, but whoever that person was, they dont know how to make bulid, and my suggestion is to look elsewhere for more proper info, with cmdrs who actually know how to bulid proper exploration ship.

Ive seen reports and vids already, that properly outfitted mandy for exploration has like 67 ly in range, with anything needed for exploration, shielded, with max sized A rated thrusters,plant and distro, including two SRV's, and even repair limpets.

It can easly reach way more than that, if downsizing would be used. 75+ is more than possible, with keeping bare minimum needed for exploration.

 

[Koma Pahu]

More survivable, certainly in Open mode.

TBF, I figured that if a player is targeting a DBX to interdict, they’re going to murder me anyway.

Being serious, I think the need for “survivability” in Open is overplayed. As an explorer in Open you rarely encounter other players.

Other than the well known gankers who used to hang out at Engineering bases and Sirius Atmospherics, I think I’ve only been swatted the once playing most of my time exclusively in Open.

Obviously, I’m not saying don’t beef up your exploration ship - I’ve always found the notion of entering the unknown in a paper aeroplane strange - but I don’t think the risk is really much greater in Open as an explorer.

 

[Kissamies]

That's different for everyone, as there even is no agreed upon definition for "exploration". For me, anything over 50 ly single jump range is luxury. Sure, nice to have if you want to get somewhere in a hurry, but not really necessary. I'd rather have:

I'll go through this too just for fun...

• robust hull (ok, that one is free, as heavy duty on zero mass doesn't add any mass)

I never think about this, but yes.

• A rated life support

Easier choice when you have access to G5 lightweight, but I also always go with A here.

• A rated, armoured power plant (you can't repair the PP, also adds a little bit of effciency)

I want to be as cool as possible, so I choose Low Emissions. Fuel scooping is what explorers tend to do a lot, so there shouldn't be a slightest chance of overheating. I'm not very worried about PP integrity. In a long haul I might make a couple of mistakes and lose a few %, but never more than that. I'm more likely to misjudge gravity and slam on the surface, losing all my hull before I wear out my PP.

• A rated FSD
• Guardian FSD booster
• don't forget the DSS!

Given.

• Thrusters, PD and Sensors no fixed preference, that depends on the specific performance after engineering in the respective ship.

Generally D-rated. There might be cases where I A-rate PD, but it's pretty rare.

• fuel tank often downgraded, 3 full range jumps is usually sufficient.

I'm the opposite. I never undersize that, and if there's space left over after everything else I might even carry an extra tank. Allows more jumps on the ol' neutron stars before having to stop to scoop. Now that there is SCO gulping up fuel, there is even more need for it. I'm pretty sure I will have one on the Mandalay.

• a backup SRV

I rarely lose my SRV, unless I decide to jump on brain trees or something. Even when I do, there's bases and carriers everywhere in the black in these days, so getting a new one isn't a big deal. Single SRV for me.

• a mining lance (alternatively, minig laser and a small beam)
• some people also used to take a plasma slug gun (to fine tune carried fuel)

Never did the mining laser thing, but carrying a small beam just in case I come across something like the Guardian beacon is something I have done. I've also used a lightweight missile launcher to shoot Guardian and Thargoid drones on the ground. Now I'd probably just use lw plasma slug rail or hammer and hope it also does enough thermal damage to interact with any Guardian artifact that requires shooting. On the other hand, one can burn excess fuel with SCO, so plasma slug weapon is not so necessary.

• bumper shields that should survive at least one automated landing...

Yup, helps with lithobraking, intended or otherwise. I've actually used my stockpile of prismatics for this. Heavier, but not so much so in the smallest slot they can work, ELP engineering and probably helped me survive when that one ganker tried to kill me at Beagle Point.

• selection of limpet controllers (repair, refuel, collector - in that order, depending on remaining open slots)

D-rate class 1 repair limpet controller is a must for a long range explorer in case hull damage happens. A research limpet controller is a maybe. Since Mandalay has all those class 1 slots, I guess I'm taking both. Don't need those other ones outside the bubble.

• an AFMU (one is sufficient)

Yes, though I prefer to make it as large as feasible for more ammo. Power usage is no concern because it only needs to be on when I'm repairing stuff and I can turn my thrusters off for that.

• limpet controller also implies a small cargo rack

Indeed and mine can be bigger if there's room. Doesn't weight anything when it's empty, but I do get bored and collect all sort of knickknacks from planet surfaces. I try to limit this behavior to when I'm heading for an asteroid base or something like that. Also, my exploration ships traditionally double for harvesting Thargoid stuff and such, so I like to make my cargo space corrosion resistant, at least partly.

• some people like to take one or two heatsink launchers, I haven't yet seen the need for those

I carry 1 lightweight one for hypothetical emergencies, which are very rare considering how cool I like to build my ships. Then on my current exploration ship has a lightweight PD because doubling up for Guardian sites thing and E-rate thermal resist shield booster. Pure indulgence, but perhaps that also helped me at Beagle Point, and removing it would give me just 0.1 ly increase to jump range.

• if I use a sufficiently large ship: a fighter hangar. For fun planetside, and for reduced risk when approaching unknown stellar phenomena (should you be lucky enough to find one)

I haven't built a large explorer, but I suppose I would also put one in. Some people seemed to want it for Mandalay too and I really don't see the point.

 

[Purged]

The real benefit will be the Speed when looking for Bio's

 

[Felix DiCestria]

Engineered hull; IIRC the collision damage is a % of your hull strength so engineering it actually works against you making it more expensive to repair whilst no actually providing greater protection.
Shield; D rated is insufficient as I found out early on. I'm not wasting a month of my life for prismatics and prefer a biweave to restore shielding quickly when it does get knocked down for whatever reason.

 

[Tifu]

A lot of builds you see for explorers are paper thin, which is "ok" for solo or PG.
Like others have mentioned, I also build explorers to be a bit more sturdy while sacrificing a small amount of jump range.
I don't see bi-weaves being useful for exploration, much prefer to use a smaller prismic, reinforced, with an e rated thermal booster. Generally equates to much, much, tougher shields.
Same for hull, Lightweight Reactive, with a single HRP engineered for thermal.
Also, almost all of my non combat ships use Engine enhanced engineering on the PD, which means I can always boost after 5s even with a smaller PD. No idea why people use charge enhanced, unless I'm missing something.
A rated engines are also a must, mainly because I don't want to fly like a snail when on a planet, plus has the added benefit of escaping an NPC or PvP combat scenarios.

As an example, taking Ian Doncasters Krait Phanton builds above, I would go for more something like this: https://s.orbis.zone/qAlD
Sure, it's lost 6ly jump range, but huge gains in shields, hull, top speed and boost. More survivable, certainly in Open mode.
At the end of the day build and engineer a ship that suits your flying/playing style. No one build is right, or wrong.

Neat trick with the prismatic shields, may adopt this technique - thank you

I've always thought the assumption that anything outside the Bubble is safe was at best only true in the medium term. Let's see what the Ascendancy patch brings

 

[Stabby_Dave]

Anyone know how many utility mounts It'll have?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Anyone know how many utility mounts It'll have?

4

 

[Silalus]

Also, almost all of my non combat ships use Engine enhanced engineering on the PD, which means I can always boost after 5s even with a smaller PD. No idea why people use charge enhanced, unless I'm missing something.

G5 charge enhanced is +45% engines recharge speed, -5% engines capacity. G5 engine focused is a slightly lower +44% engines recharge speed but +60% engines capacity. Super conduits as an experimental gives an additional +4% recharge speed in exchange for -4% capacity.

So, charge enhanced is always slightly better for time between boosts until you hit the 5s cap (and as an ancillary benefit, doesn't compromise shield recharging ability). But engine focused can be a reasonable choice for undersized PD's that otherwise wouldn't be able to boost at all with CE/SC.

In practice, that use case is rare if you want to get to the 5s boost cap. For example, the smallest PD that can get to <5s for the Phantom is the 8T 5D PD. It will get to <5s whether you apply CE/SC or EF/SC, so personally I would always go for CE/SC as a slightly more versatile option. But if you are ok with being slightly above the 5s boost cap and prioritizing mass, it can be helpful. For that same Phantom, the 2T 3D PD can't boost at all with CE/SC. However, you can get it to boost every 8.7s with EF/SC. Not <5s, but not terrible for some use cases with a 6T weight savings. (Though if you're willing to go up to 9.0s between boosts, you could achieve that with charge enhanced and stripped down, and also save another 0.2T of weight.) A very similar situation exists for the DBX.

I'm curious, only because I can't think of one offhand, is there a build where you can achieve a boost at the 5s cap using an engine focused PD but couldn't achieve the same performance at the same weight of PD using charge enhanced instead? I've only ever found builds where EF makes sense when I'm willing to have a boost less often than 5s, but I could be forgetting or not thinking of one.

 

[Northpin]

G5 charge enhanced is +45% engines recharge speed, -5% engines capacity. G5 engine focused is a slightly lower +44% engines recharge speed but +60% engines capacity. Super conduits as an experimental gives an additional +4% recharge speed in exchange for -4% capacity.

So, charge enhanced is always slightly better for time between boosts until you hit the 5s cap (and as an ancillary benefit, doesn't compromise shield recharging ability). But engine focused can be a reasonable choice for undersized PD's that otherwise wouldn't be able to boost at all with CE/SC.

In practice, that use case is rare if you want to get to the 5s boost cap. For example, the smallest PD that can get to <5s for the Phantom is the 8T 5D PD. It will get to <5s whether you apply CE/SC or EF/SC, so personally I would always go for CE/SC as a slightly more versatile option. But if you are ok with being slightly above the 5s boost cap and prioritizing mass, it can be helpful. For that same Phantom, the 2T 3D PD can't boost at all with CE/SC. However, you can get it to boost every 8.7s with EF/SC. Not <5s, but not terrible for some use cases with a 6T weight savings. (Though if you're willing to go up to 9.0s between boosts, you could achieve that with charge enhanced and stripped down, and also save another 0.2T of weight.) A very similar situation exists for the DBX.

I'm curious, only because I can't think of one offhand, is there a build where you can achieve a boost at the 5s cap using an engine focused PD but couldn't achieve the same performance at the same weight of PD using charge enhanced instead? I've only ever found builds where EF makes sense when I'm willing to have a boost less often than 5s, but I could be forgetting or not thinking of one.

For an exploration build i always use PD with engine focused and cluster capacitors and i never use bi-weaves so the shield recharge rate is not impaired in any way.
The engine focused PD has to be able to give me 3-4 boost in quick succession so the increased capacity from cluster capacitors usually works better than super conduits, especially for a lightweight build.

Shields, depending on internals available, are either D-rated (reinforced or enhanced low power depending on size), A-rated or prismatics (enhanced low power) and the experimental is always low draw.

I'm usually happy with 65+ ly jump range builds, the only concession being a Krait mk2 with srv hangar and 5d slf hangar that is doing 60 ly jumps (the fun of flying a slf does wonders combating the space madness)

So, as it seems now, the Mandy looks almost perfect to me.
Almost (it's missing the SLF hangar)

 

[Schmack]

Has the exploring mentality change to longer jump range ships being better? If so, is that due to the need to travel so far outside of the bubble to find unexplored systems and plants? Of course more jump range is better, options are always better than no options. I am just curious if exploring now means traveling vs discovery since a 35LY ship can explore just as well as an 85LY ship, minus the edge of the galaxy jumps.

If I was exploring the US, for example, I'd not take a flight from LA to NY. I'd take a car across the country.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

If so, is that due to the need to travel so far outside of the bubble to find unexplored systems and plants?

On my most recent exploration a couple of months ago, I was finding completely unexplored systems fairly regularly just 1000 LY from the bubble [1] including one with an ELW, and undiscovered planets within previously visited systems as close as 600LY from Sol (so maybe 350 LY from the edge of the bubble).

Unmapped planets and unscanned exobiology were fairly common by the 600 LY mark as well. So there's certainly no absolute need to travel a large distance purely to get first discoveries.

On the other hand, the types of plants possible to find at all vary between galactic regions, and may have other conditions not found near the bubble, so first discovery or not you'll have to travel a long way to find some of those.


[1] This obviously depends very strongly on the direction - a lot of what I was doing was 4-500 LY above or below the galactic plane. Conversely, going around near the galactic plane I didn't find an unscanned planet until about 2000 LY out (and only a few of those), and no completely unvisited systems.

 

[angusmadmac1]

No the thoughts have changed so that you can get out there and back quickly as it's easy money. There are systems close by where folk with their max jump have jumped over those systems. The need for max jump range has been propagated by Fdev anaconda then booster then sco , there isn't really a need for it. But you know hairless apes because they can they will ?

 

[Schmack]

No the thoughts have changed so that you can get out there and back quickly as it's easy money. There are systems close by where folk with their max jump have jumped over those systems. The need for max jump range has been propagated by Fdev anaconda then booster then sco , there isn't really a need for it. But you know hairless apes because they can they will ?

I am a big believer in "if you can you should" so I get it. That's why we can carry so many different ships on carriers, you just never know.

 

[Stabby_Dave]

4

Cheers.

 

[Northpin]

Has the exploring mentality change to longer jump range ships being better?

For me longer jump ranges means getting there or getting back faster.
A 70ly explorer ship can do 5 ly jumps as good as it can do 70 ly jumps - so the argument that explorers dont need larger jump ranges else they dont/cant explore is a fallacy
A 50 ly ship cannot do 70ly jumps, duh!

And no, it's not only 20 ly difference, because when riding the neutron highway, the difference between 200ly and 280ly is getting quite significant

 

[Emphatical]

The Mandalay easily gets to above 60 with minimal engineering and fully kitted for explo tops out just around 90 anyone saying anything else is gaslighting you.

 

[Kissamies]

Oh yeah, I forgot. Re: Bi-Weave shields. Not me, but I believe some explorers min-max their power so harshly that they turn theirs shields off for supercruise and only turn them off for landing. With BW they don't have to wait so long for them to turn on, I think.

 

[Koma Pahu]

Oh yeah, I forgot. Re: Bi-Weave shields. Not me, but I believe some explorers min-max their power so harshly that they turn theirs shields off for supercruise and only turn them off for landing. With BW they don't have to wait so long for them to turn on, I think.

I used to switch mine off, not for power but for heat so I could start spooling up for a jump while still scooping. Now I spend more time on planet surfaces I’m too lazy to keep turning it on and off.