That includes pretty much all cetaceans and large sharks.... have a look to see how many dolphins or whales have been successfully bred in captivity (not the same as born in captivity, since already-pregnant females sometimes give birth in captivity)
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- Thread starter noeoh
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I would love these animals
Ok, maybe not the White Shark, but I just need my cetaceans
And honestly, I guess my wish for them is selfish yes, but I find the people who are like "I dont like it/want it, so no one else should have them" even more selfish. Since its easy. If Frontier would add those animals, those who would not want them simply wouldnt have to use them and those of us who want to, could. However, if Frontier never adds them because some people are against them, then those of us who would like them could never get them, either...
The often mentioned "Planet Aquarium" would be nice as a compromise/alternative, but I dont see this ever happen personally. New games are expensive to make, need time and workers and so on.
Plus I remember before Planet Zoo was released, many PC players complained why it was a sperated game and not a DLC for PC. I think in this case the complains from PZ players would be even higher.
Oh and I am not that greedy that I would need a whole new game, a small DLC would be enough for me
Well, for example:
- Zoo Duisburg - They have bottlenose dolphins. However, for years they had Amazon river dolphins, Belugas, Bottlenose Dolphins and Commerson Dolphins at the same time.(and I think even other kind of dolphins aswell) 2 of their River Dolphins also turned to be the oldest ever known. (Apure aged ~ 51, who died 2006 and Orinoco/Baby, who sadly died last December, aged 46+) Their last Beluga Ferdinand is also still alive as far as I know (he is probaly like around 50 now?), though he lives at a Sea World Park (always forget which, because I am not into SeaWorld at all) since ~2004. They did not give up keeping Belugas because they thought it was wrong or anything, but simply because they knew the tank was outdated and they would need new females. So it was a money and space issue and they decided to expand and focus on their Amazon River and Bottlenose Dolphins instead.
Bottlenose Dolphins are even the Zoos emblem, by the way.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEkXAD6jng
(here is a video about Baby, if anynone is intrested, it is in German, but has English subs aswell)
- Tierpark Nürnberg - They also keep Bottlenose Dolphins and their male Moby is/was known as one of the oldest male Bottlenose Dolphins ever recorded with an age of about 58 when he died.
Nürnberg also keeps manatees and they are basically "neighbours" with the dolphins, so while my personal focus is on cetaceans, I would love those aswell in PZ ^^
- Loro Parque - They keep Bottlenose Dolphins since the late 80s and Orcas since 2006.
I cant remember which zoo it was, but I also saw my first dolphins in a zoo as a child (I think it was Münster, though I am not 100% sure). So I totally disagree that cetaceans would not fit in a zoo game. For me they were always a "zoo animal" I saw at zoos, funny enough I never saw dolphins at any Aquarium Ive ever vistied.
Even if they are rarer in zoos nowadays*. I think they would be an amazing addition and totally fitting for Planet Zoo. What if people want to build one of these zoos?
Guess I have said this a 1000 times already, but no, it also wouldnt go against the games messages at all, if they follow what the 3 zoos I just mentioned say about it, aswell as what the big zoo associations say about the matter. Plus the game also advertised some other things, like being able to bulid the zoo of your dreams, individual personalities and more.
* Just wanted to mention I think its good many zoos gave up keeping dolphins, since they hadnt the space/money (or both) to update their tanks to make them better and thats just what zoos have to do. Cologne for example also gave up keeping polar bears because they neither had the space nor the money to give them a new habitat. (which they invested in their Asian Elephant project, for which they also gave away their 2 old African Elephants, who lived in a beautiful old Elephant house - which yes, is nice to look at for humans, but not nice to live in for Elephants)
As a child I was really sad when the polar bears and the African Elephants were gone. But when I got older I of course understood the reasons and found them good.
(though it seems likley that only those will be added, but who knows what Frontier is up to^^)
Oh, you erased your post? You really didnt have to
Ok, maybe not the White Shark, but I just need my cetaceansAnd honestly, I guess my wish for them is selfish yes, but I find the people who are like "I dont like it/want it, so no one else should have them" even more selfish. Since its easy. If Frontier would add those animals, those who would not want them simply wouldnt have to use them and those of us who want to, could. However, if Frontier never adds them because some people are against them, then those of us who would like them could never get them, either...
The often mentioned "Planet Aquarium" would be nice as a compromise/alternative, but I dont see this ever happen personally. New games are expensive to make, need time and workers and so on.
Plus I remember before Planet Zoo was released, many PC players complained why it was a sperated game and not a DLC for PC. I think in this case the complains from PZ players would be even higher.
Oh and I am not that greedy that I would need a whole new game, a small DLC would be enough for me
Well, for example:
- Zoo Duisburg - They have bottlenose dolphins. However, for years they had Amazon river dolphins, Belugas, Bottlenose Dolphins and Commerson Dolphins at the same time.(and I think even other kind of dolphins aswell) 2 of their River Dolphins also turned to be the oldest ever known. (Apure aged ~ 51, who died 2006 and Orinoco/Baby, who sadly died last December, aged 46+) Their last Beluga Ferdinand is also still alive as far as I know (he is probaly like around 50 now?), though he lives at a Sea World Park (always forget which, because I am not into SeaWorld at all) since ~2004. They did not give up keeping Belugas because they thought it was wrong or anything, but simply because they knew the tank was outdated and they would need new females. So it was a money and space issue and they decided to expand and focus on their Amazon River and Bottlenose Dolphins instead.
Bottlenose Dolphins are even the Zoos emblem, by the way.
(here is a video about Baby, if anynone is intrested, it is in German, but has English subs aswell)
- Tierpark Nürnberg - They also keep Bottlenose Dolphins and their male Moby is/was known as one of the oldest male Bottlenose Dolphins ever recorded with an age of about 58 when he died.
Nürnberg also keeps manatees and they are basically "neighbours" with the dolphins, so while my personal focus is on cetaceans, I would love those aswell in PZ ^^
- Loro Parque - They keep Bottlenose Dolphins since the late 80s and Orcas since 2006.
I cant remember which zoo it was, but I also saw my first dolphins in a zoo as a child (I think it was Münster, though I am not 100% sure). So I totally disagree that cetaceans would not fit in a zoo game. For me they were always a "zoo animal" I saw at zoos, funny enough I never saw dolphins at any Aquarium Ive ever vistied.
Even if they are rarer in zoos nowadays*. I think they would be an amazing addition and totally fitting for Planet Zoo. What if people want to build one of these zoos?
Guess I have said this a 1000 times already, but no, it also wouldnt go against the games messages at all, if they follow what the 3 zoos I just mentioned say about it, aswell as what the big zoo associations say about the matter. Plus the game also advertised some other things, like being able to bulid the zoo of your dreams, individual personalities and more.
* Just wanted to mention I think its good many zoos gave up keeping dolphins, since they hadnt the space/money (or both) to update their tanks to make them better and thats just what zoos have to do. Cologne for example also gave up keeping polar bears because they neither had the space nor the money to give them a new habitat. (which they invested in their Asian Elephant project, for which they also gave away their 2 old African Elephants, who lived in a beautiful old Elephant house - which yes, is nice to look at for humans, but not nice to live in for Elephants)
As a child I was really sad when the polar bears and the African Elephants were gone. But when I got older I of course understood the reasons and found them good.
Oh, you dont have to apologize at all. You can wish for whatever you want. There is no rule by Frontier to only mention animals that are actually kept in captivity
(though it seems likley that only those will be added, but who knows what Frontier is up to^^)Oh, you erased your post? You really didnt have to
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There is absolutely nobody who has said something like that.
Not literally, no. But indirectly often enough and not limited to this thread, but what Ive read some people write in other topics about cetaceans aswell.
Thats why I wrote "who are like..." and not "who say..". Thats how Ive interpreted many comments in the past, at least. Maybe thats wrong for some, but for others its fitting.
People will always complain about this stuff for a short time. I remember during beta it was hardly a discussion anymore.
Usually an argument fueled by a 1 or 2 members but i don't think people actually expected for a zoo game to be mixed with a theme park game.
The waterpark (and how water works in PZ) that was a bigger request/complaint for PC.
That comment has been debunked many times by users on this forum. Because of these comments (and always referencing to that documentary) I shifted from "in the middle but slightly leaning towards no" to "no".
You don't see people who are "anti"-cetaceans making similar claims about people who are "pro"-cetaceans.
It's just a discussion and personal issue that people have in RL as well. Years ago we had an Orca in the Dolfinarium (marine park in the Netherlands). Even in the crowd, people were discussing it.
And recent law changes in France reignited this discussion in other countries as well. If it's controversial, people will always have a strong opinion about it and don't fully understand the reasoning from the other side of the argument.
My personal take on this was: I don't see this working in PZ. The game doesn't run smoothly and don't think those additions would help. If you want to do it right, a new game would be better.
But I doubt if any company would do this. Especially nowadays with the cancel-culture on social media.
I see.
Either way, it would be weird for Frontier to add cetaceans to the game anyways, as the European Union already has a law that prohibits any new (commercial) activities with Cetaceans.
Dolphinaria in Europe will be something of the past, eventually...
Source: https://ec.europa.eu/environment/biodiversity/animal_welfare/whaling.htm
Just to add, I'm not fully against such a DLC, I probably won't buy it, but that is no argument for Frontier to not make it. I'm only providing arguments why I think it's not the best of ideas out there.
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Those are some good examples, thanks for sharing! Although generally I think there will be less and less zoos. Of course, establishment that are already having them, wont release them all of the sudden, but I think less and less zoos (if any) will bring new ones.
I am not completely against it, as I too would buy such DLC, but the likelihood of that happening is almost minimal imo as I think terrestrial and semi-aquatic animals fits into this game more. But I could be wrong as no one really knows. I can also see how it can be frustrating if your favourite animals are the marine ones and you find alot of people in the forum against them in your favourite game.
I agree that the best compromise would be an aquarium game. I would buy that in an eye blink, even though I understand that in real life some species are not suitable for keeping in captivity.
I'm in the middle, for any animal. While I wouldn't catch and stuff an animal into a cage, I don't disagree with want zoos are trying to do. In the case of cetaceans, when they're in captivity, they become very aggressive, and there are multiple reports of them attacking, even killing their handlers. But you never hear that in the wild. It has to be some psychological thing. My point is, if an animal can't be kept in captivity, we likely won't receive it.
Which is a shame, because I'd totally get a game about building am aquarium or even just a PZ DLC
EDIT: Actually, Botos have attacked people, I've heard
Which is a shame, because I'd totally get a game about building am aquarium or even just a PZ DLC
EDIT: Actually, Botos have attacked people, I've heard
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I apologize if anyone feels offended by this, but I didnt even mean anyone who doesnt want cetaceans in the game, but those who are really so strongly against it and say Frontier should never ever make such a DLC. There I think my statement as very true and cant even be "debunked", because there are players who dont want it and because of that no one else could ever have it, either. Its simply true. And I said that yes, I guess I am selfish for wanting them, but feel the others are selfisher for denyng them to others.
Anyways, I dont see how my personal feelings and opinions could be "debunked" anyways.
I didnt reference to "that documentary" at all. Funny enough I have a similar experience. But for real-life. About a year ago I was pretty much against keeping cetaceans captive, but because of all those arguments here, I shifted more on the "pro" side. Maybe not 100% totally, but I became more open to the opinions of the zoos who keep them aswell as was AZA/EAZA/WAZA/VdZ etc. says about it. This would never have happened if there werent people who advocated against cetaceans in a game in pretty much every topic that came up... So they achived exactly the opposide from what they wanted, in my case.
However, your comment is also validating my feelings a bit again, even if you may not mean it that way, but thats what it is. If you say "no" that would also mean I couldnt have them either, because you dont want them (of course if it was up to you or more realisticly, if Frontier listens to everyone who dosent want them).
I mean, I know people would want an African Rhino, what if there are people who said "No, there is already the Indian Rhino and we dont want Frontier to add another "clone" animal, it would just take the space of an unique animal anyway and if Frontier added them, we would be annyoyed/mad/disappointed at them?" For people who would really want an African Rhino could probaly relate to how that feels for me with orcas/cetaceans
Eh, well, this is wrong. We have been called "undeducated" for wanting cetaceans and more before. Some players even pretty much upset me, so that I deiced to become more advocating for the topic, which actually wasnt my plan from the start - but here we are. But here isnt really the place to discuss this.
Again, if I said something that offended you, I am sorry. I even called myself sellfish for wanting them, you know. But its still my opinion, feelings and how I interpreted many of the "no-sayers", not all. It simply feels like many want to deny it to others.
Yes, I am aware about Morgans story. Back then I was also not happy about her captivity, but then when I learnt more about the matter I understood not every thing is well, black and white. Morgan was very young, lost her family and is also deaf. So I think that yes, bringing her to Loro Parque was the right decision, or at least a good one, since her only other option would have been death. (though I am aware there are some people who think this was all a SeaWorld-Loro Parque-Harderwijk-conspiracy and that she totaly could have been released...)
And honestly, I still thing its very weird that some people are strongly against it in a game, I still cant understand people who take such a thing sooo serious that they try to make like a polical affair out of it. Again, before PZ release I would have never believed there could be people like this, maybe peta-people, but outside of it? No way...
Well, dont see that happen in Germany at all. It was already tried to ban the keeping of dolphins in Germany by some parties at least in 2013 and 2016, but it always failed in the parliament, because they listened to what Duisburg, Nürnberg and the VdZ said about the matter. Since then nothing really changed, so I dont see a ban happening now, either. The things is, I come from "the other side" in real life, but I still never had this thought for a game, ever.
Well, a new game could be better, but as I already said I also dont think it will ever happen. So a DLC seems to be the best option for me.
However, not because of this:
Sorry, this comment really makes me shake my head and stare in disbelief. There are thousands of games out there where you can do very bad things (which I dont even think I could mention here), but then some people seriously think a game with captive dolphins would bring the world to explode? This is just weird, sorry, I cant put it any differntly...
It also seems to be wrong, Wildlife Park 3 added cetaceans around 20017/18 and theres also (a) browser/mobile zoo game(s) who I know about who just more or less recently added dolphins. Now those games are of course not as popular as PZ is (and rightfully so), but I still dont believe there would be a huge protest towards Frontier, if they added cetaceans in a DLC or even a new game. If the anties were serious, they then would also target the lesser known games. Though such people who would protest such a game wouldnt even be taken seriously by many people.
Dinosaur games in my opinion could be worse, because we really dont know how those animals really lived, how inteligent they were or if they could even surive in captivty, but then a game with cetaceans would be bad? Sorry, I just cant wrap my head around this.
(And nobody minds captive-Dinosaur games, not even Frontier
)Why I think such a game will not be made? Well, saldy zoo games are already pretty much niche and an aquarium/dolphinarium game would even be more niche. Adding them to DLC seems to be no big problem, however.
But thats also why I thought I have to write more in support of such a DLC/games, so that more players dare to speak up if they would also like them wouldnt feel the need like @noeoh to delte their post, just because some players disagree with them.
Well, this law does however not include the zoos I mentioned before, since they dont keep them commerical, but in line of research and as parts of the EAZA Ex-situ Programme. Also there havent been any wild-caught dolphins in the EU since the 80s. Those zoos also nowadays mostly have captive-bred dolphins, with some older captive dolphins from around the 70s-80s, as already stated. With Morgan the orca as the only exception, but she was a rescue in 2010.
Zoos are also not buying their animals anymore, but they are trading them and yes, this does also apply to the cetaceans.
Now about "pure" Dolphinaria, this may or may not be different. I guess it depends if they are members of EAZA and can prove their keeping of the animals is for research and such and the money they make with visitors is simply for upkeeping of the animals.
For me, anyways, this still would me no reason to not include them in PZ. As I already said, Zoos are generally not seen as commercial. And if you mean, since you bolded "new" aswell, that this law would also apply to new pixel cetaceans added to a pixel zoo to make Frontier real money, then I would bet everything I own, that it does not apply to pixel cetaceans
If it does I would move to China, I guess(just to not be misunderstood, no I dont really believe that you believe that)
Fair enough. And I add arguments for while I think it would be a great idea. Though honestly, most of the time I did not see you give out arguments, but simply saying no.
No problem^^
All of those examples also do alot for conversation, in my opinion. Sure, not everything was/is perfect, but I really think they try and are really commited to their dolphins.
And yes, you are right. It can be really frustrating. I really love Planet Zoo and while there are sure players who already have more hours then I do, I think I am in the upper limit of playtime in this forum and I am still not bored out by the game. I still play it daily, sure sometimes life gets in the way, but I just cant stop playing. Its always fun.
My total dream of course is to have my beloved orcas in the game. It would make me so happy. Also Amazon River Dolphins would be awesome, for some reason I never vistited Duisburg, though I always wanted for years, last year it wasnt possible and well, now Baby is dead and I really regret that I have never seen him in person. Now I know I totally missed my chance to ever see a real one - but an almost real.looking like made by Frontier would be awesome
So I really hope the Frontier team may follow my arguments and/or share my opions about that matter.
Who knows, maybe they do like the "Planet Aquarium" idea after all and will try it, even though this could be become a very long wait
@noeoh I think its really sad your delted your post. There was nothing wrong with your choices/wishes. I would have bought it, even though I probaly wouldnt have used the shark, at least not regulary^^ But as I already said, there is no Frontier rule to not mention sharks and cetaceans, so you can
Tuky:
I only play on weekends, but even then it's the only game I play. I only have 110 hours, but it's my favorite
I only play on weekends, but even then it's the only game I play. I only have 110 hours, but it's my favorite
Which I feel is a total misconception. As soon as you charge money to display animals in a private area, it's full on commercial.
I fully support their non-commercial activities, but me, being charged money to go look at animals, is all about commerce.
They need to be commercial, otherwise they can't exist.
True. Sometimes I just do a simple no.
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