A Case Against Supermodule CG Rewards

I know this was discussed a lot during and after the Spirit of Nysa CG, probably some people are sick of hearing about it. Others may not have been aware of it though and I would like to try and present a case now the dust has settled, as I still feel quite strongly about this and I know many others who do also. I am also worried about the precedent this sets for the future of the multiplayer ecosystem.

For clarity/background:
I finished the AX CG in the top 10% and am consequently the ashamed owner of a double-modded C5 FSD, with Increased Range and Fast Boot. The primary effect of the latter mod is not particularly useful outside of some very specific combat scenarios, but it does come with its own minor optimal mass buff, stacking with the other mod bringing the total to +76.5% OM* (with mass manager) over the +61.2% OM achievable with a standard Increased Range module. It's a very good FSD, allowing significantly greater jump ranges in all C5 FSD ships (Kraits, AspX, Python etc). It's not the first reward of its kind, a hi-cap, lightweight missile rack preceeded it a few CGs before, but the FSD garnered more attention because it has a broader appeal.

I'm writing primarily because I feel my participation in the CG may have contributed to statistics showing Frontier this was a successful event - which I'm sure it was in terms of participation - but I strongly disapprove of using FOMO to fluff player numbers, and I strongly disapprove of granting a tiny subset of players who happened to be available on one weekend a superpowered module that is otherwise unobtainable in this multiplayer game. I participated to shoot aliens and I don't want to tacitly support this manipulative, slippery-slope reward scheme.

Why is it bad?:
Although many people play Elite as if it were a single player game, and are justified in doing so, it is a multiplayer game. We share the space and even when not competing directly via combat, explorers are out trying to break records or people are working the BGS, Powerplay etc. PvP players organise duels and tournaments in an increasingly imbalanced environment. Introducing hard gated supermodules to this ecosystem is provocative and unfair. It might not seem like such a big deal to casual players but this game has a dedicated following of fans who take it, and their performance within it, seriously.

Here's a list of people who wouldn't have got the SuperFSD:
  • Anyone who wasn't available that week due to IRL constraints.
  • Anyone who was exploring during this CG.
  • Anyone who bases out of Colonia.
  • Anyone who didn't read the CG smallprint and justifiably opted to do something else.
  • Anyone who did read the small print of the CG but didn't consider that the two mods would stack to create a longer range FSD.
  • Anyone who bought the game at any point after the CG.

The list goes on, and this is on top of those who were just unable to reach the required tier of the rewards scheme for whatever reason, those dumb scrubs didn't deserve one anyway, amirite!?

Now, yes some will say they personally 'worked hard' for the module (it wasn't hard, I killed like, ~6 interceptors, get over yourselves) this is a strange turn of phrase to use about a videogame, but also doesn't hold water as a justification. It relied on them being none of the above things for that week and also says nothing about how hard newer players may try in the future to improve their game, without being able to obtain the time-limited modules. You're We're not special, you we were just available at the right stage of the game at the right time.

It also just makes people of a certain mindset feel bad either because they missed out on something powerful in a game they care about, or arm-twisted into participating in something due to FOMO rather than any real joy in the doing. I feel this is an ethically dubious thing for game designers to do.

My Big Worry:
For me the big worry is that Frontier will perceive this reward scheme as a success and continue to do it with potentially more disruptive modules. Arguably, for most bubble-centric players a few extra LY and a bit more resistance against Grombombs isn't going to drastically change the face of the gameworld, but how long will it be until we get Overcharged + Long Range Plasma or Thermal Resistance + Reinforced Shielding. This would land us right back in a 2.1-esque legacy godroll class system nightmare that was the source of so many complaints, and cost Frontier a lot of time in revising. Please Don't Do This Again. This is a multiplayer game with a lot of passionate players, stop carving numerical gulfs between them and let skill and saavy be the deciding factor.

Alternatives:
  • The idea of giving out modules for a CG isn't bad in principle. You could reward sets of modules that are achievable within the game - people would still be happy to have another way to earn them.
  • You could elicit ship builds from the community and reward those with low rebuys.
  • You could continue with cosmetic rewards instead of performance rewards, which is the good principle behind Elite's ARX store, no pay-to-win is a good policy.
  • Increase the credit rewards - as you may have noticed by now people love a goldrush, use it!
  • Other stuff, I dunno, make suggestion.

TL;DR: I did a CG and got a super-duper amazing FSD that I don't want and I'm p. darn miffed about it. (edit: this is a joke misinterpretation of the post above, stop being lazy)

*edit: in practice this +76.5% amounts to about a 6ly range buff on an exploration Phantom over standard. I'm sure explorers reading will appreciate how significant a number this is over longer hauls.
 
Last edited:
Frankly I'm not overly fuzzed with FDevs handling of unique module rewards. Sure its an edge for DBX/Kraits and stuff and sure its nice for escaping groms, but the integrity debuffs make it very easy to shoot out. Moreover the DBX, while getting a range boost is still not top dog. Imo its not a huge deal because they don't break much. Sure you can have a marginally better FSD if you did that, but is 5ly really going to make/break your game experience? Same with the total joke missile rack that has nearly no practical use, and now the slightly better DSS with a bit extra probe radius. Until they introduce some very specific combinations, I'm not overly concerned. They're a gimmick with marginally better performance and basically nothing else.

I am looking out for the Efficient and Short Range Plasmas tho
 
Based on what they've given us so far, they're tuning these rewards fairly well to be balanced.

The Lightweight+High Cap missile launcher is arguably worse than the alternatives. It loses durability compared to purely high cap, and gains weight compared to purely lightweight. You tend to engineer for these things to achieve a specific purpose, and this module sits in an awkward middle ground it doesn't fit particularly well. If you want high capacity to last a long time, you also want high durability to keep it functional. If you want lightweight for exploring, you're not gonna want anything that takes ammo in the first place, you're gonna want a laser with infinite ammo.

The FSD is arguable, but it's not, in my mind anywhere near being a necessity for anything. Mine boosted my jump range by about 5ly. This is useless once I get out to be actively exploring, and saves me about ten minutes getting from the bubble out to unexplored space. It may occasionally save me a jump inside the bubble, but again, I'd expect maybe 10% savings over the long run, and in a medium class ship, that's not exactly a big deal.

Lastly, the DSS is also not anything to speak of. It means I can probe a 6 probe planet in 2 probes instead of 3, but since the ammo count is 3, that makes pretty much no difference at all. Fun to have, but pragmatically only valuable as a curiosity.

As long as they continue on this trend, of modules that are only interesting more than useful, I don't foresee any problems. Even if they do step into pure combat modules, as long as they keep them interesting combinations rather than meta ones, it should be fine.

For example, if the missile rack had been High Capacity AND Rapid Fire, that'd have been OP. Reinforced+Thermal Resist shields too, for instance.

But what about, say, Enhanced Low Power+Kinetic Resistant? That'd be fine. Or a Lightweight+Blast Resistant Hull Reinforcement?

Those would be just fine.
 
Based on what they've given us so far, they're tuning these rewards fairly well to be balanced.

The Lightweight+High Cap missile launcher is arguably worse than the alternatives. It loses durability compared to purely high cap, and gains weight compared to purely lightweight. You tend to engineer for these things to achieve a specific purpose, and this module sits in an awkward middle ground it doesn't fit particularly well. If you want high capacity to last a long time, you also want high durability to keep it functional. If you want lightweight for exploring, you're not gonna want anything that takes ammo in the first place, you're gonna want a laser with infinite ammo.

The FSD is arguable, but it's not, in my mind anywhere near being a necessity for anything. Mine boosted my jump range by about 5ly. This is useless once I get out to be actively exploring, and saves me about ten minutes getting from the bubble out to unexplored space. It may occasionally save me a jump inside the bubble, but again, I'd expect maybe 10% savings over the long run, and in a medium class ship, that's not exactly a big deal.

Lastly, the DSS is also not anything to speak of. It means I can probe a 6 probe planet in 2 probes instead of 3, but since the ammo count is 3, that makes pretty much no difference at all. Fun to have, but pragmatically only valuable as a curiosity.

As long as they continue on this trend, of modules that are only interesting more than useful, I don't foresee any problems. Even if they do step into pure combat modules, as long as they keep them interesting combinations rather than meta ones, it should be fine.

For example, if the missile rack had been High Capacity AND Rapid Fire, that'd have been OP. Reinforced+Thermal Resist shields too, for instance.

But what about, say, Enhanced Low Power+Kinetic Resistant? That'd be fine. Or a Lightweight+Blast Resistant Hull Reinforcement?

Those would be just fine.
That DSS... I haven't checked the figures, but I think you can achieve the effect with ordinary G5 engineering anyway? I have that recipe pinned and always apply it to every new DSS.
 
Based on what they've given us so far, they're tuning these rewards fairly well to be balanced.

I'm not really sure how you can look at the sample we have and draw this conclusion. There have been three modules so far. One of these, the FSD, is a universal upgrade amounting to a +6ly range bonus on a Krait Phantom for zero penalty, (not to mention the actual Fast Boot mod).

But what about, say, Enhanced Low Power+Kinetic Resistant? That'd be fine. Or a Lightweight+Blast Resistant Hull Reinforcement?

Those would be just fine.

If when you say fine you mean "without any conceivable use" then yes. If unique god-modules are going to exist I'd rather they were useless trash, on the other hand I'm not sure what the interest would be in making actively bad modules using mod combos that are objectively worse than what already exists.

On a tangent, a lightweight mod on an HRP is always worse in every way than a downsized HRP with a good mod, a lightweight modded HRP with blast resistant would still be worse than a downsized one too due to being both heavier and less health, because (and this links neatly back in to the original point) Frontier don't have a particularly great record for balancing in this game. Edit: It's actually fairly ironic that your case for them balancing well in this instance hinges on them having balanced poorly in the past, so we can be in a state where combining two mods is often useless due to their general redundancy across the board.

I sincerely hope your optimism bears out and we can all look forward to completely useless junk from now on though :p

Obvious solution is obvious. :)

Lol, yep, now if we can just get everyone to agree to sell them at the same time... I'll do a countdown... ready?
 
Last edited:
...
Lol, yep, now if we can just get everyone to agree to sell them at the same time... I'll do a countdown... ready?
Ah! When you say you don't want the module, you mean that you don't want me to have one either? I like mine; it's put 6ly extra jump on my Asp Explorer.
 
I would pay a couple of billion credits for that FSD. When I realized that the CG was happening and with that price it was almost over. I’m not salty though. It doesn’t have a negative impact on my gameplay. But I hope I get a new chance to win a similar FSD one day.
 
Its a bit of a plus and a minus for the game. Its less of an issue perhaps if they cycle the rewards every now and again to allow those who missed out during a previous CG.

For me though, having played from launch, i became bored with CGs a long time ago and really, even with rewards, i can't find much incentive to take part. I usually have other things i'd rather be doing.

So, i'm missing out, but as long as the rewards remain nothing too special, i can live with that. If the rewards became something that i really wouldn't want to miss out on, then i might feel differently.
 
Ah! When you say you don't want the module, you mean that you don't want me to have one either? I like mine; it's put 6ly extra jump on my Asp Explorer.
You may like yours. Everyone would like one. If you happen to do Buckyballing and your friend does as well, is it OK you have access to this particular module your friend literally cannot get?
 
Its a bit of a plus and a minus for the game. Its less of an issue perhaps if they cycle the rewards every now and again to allow those who missed out during a previous CG.

For me though, having played from launch, i became bored with CGs a long time ago and really, even with rewards, i can't find much incentive to take part. I usually have other things i'd rather be doing.

Yeah this is a fair point, cycling the rewards would certainly help, as well as signposting it better. I feel bad for the members of my playergroup who would've got one if they'd known about it or been available, and the competitively-minded players who now feel like they've lost out permanently. I don't think it's a good move on principle, but I'm sure it did spice up the CG for a lot of people.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Frontier just didn't realise that Fast Boot had an optimal mass secondary initially, which might explain why they widened the reward bracket at the last minute. As someone with PTSD from 2.1, which for competitively-minded players was an absolute hellscape, I just wish they'd think of another, more creative and less unfair way to motivate people.
 
I would pay a couple of billion credits for that FSD. When I realized that the CG was happening and with that price it was almost over. I’m not salty though. It doesn’t have a negative impact on my gameplay. But I hope I get a new chance to win a similar FSD one day.

I know a few others who feel the same. I am salty on their, and now your, behalf!
 
For clarity/background:
I finished the AX CG in the top 10% and am consequently the ashamed owner of a double-modded C5 FSD, with Increased Range and Fast Boot. The primary effect of the latter mod is not particularly useful outside of some very specific combat scenarios, but it does come with its own minor optimal mass buff, stacking with the other mod bringing the total to +76.5% OM* (with mass manager) over the +61.2% OM achievable with a standard Increased Range module. It's a very good FSD, allowing significantly greater jump ranges in all C5 FSD ships (Kraits, AspX, Python etc). It's not the first reward of its kind, a hi-cap, lightweight missile rack preceeded it a few CGs before, but the FSD garnered more attention because it has a broader appeal.

I would NOT call the benefits of the special FSD as a "Significant Increase Of Jump Range"
My dbx jump ranged went from 67.64 to 73.29 - that's about 8%. Far from significant and even far from game breaking

Yes, it can be annoying to miss one of those and knowing there are people having that.
But is not much more annoying than knowing there are people with size 5A Prismatics on a Cutter, isn't it?


No. I think such rewards are fine. They really spice things up.

And if you really want to militate for something, then start with the removal of all the exclusive rewards in the game... the C4, the special Paints, the special decals, the legacy engineered modules and so on.
The current FSD+ is the most recent addition to the lot, next one being (hopefully) the DSS+

Edit: forgot a NOT up there :D
 
Last edited:
I would call as the benefits of the special FSD as a "Significant Increase Of Jump Range"
My dbx jump ranged went from 67.64 to 73.29 - that's about 8%. Far from significant and even far from game breaking

Yes, it can be annoying to miss one of those and knowing there are people having that.
But is not much more annoying than knowing there are people with size 5A Prismatics on a Cutter, isn't it?


No. I think such rewards are fine. They really spice things up.

And if you really want to militate for something, the start with the removal of all the exclusive rewards in the game... the C4, the special Paints, the special decals, the legacy engineered modules and so on.
The current FSD+ is the most recent addition to the lot, next one being (hopefully) the DSS+
For me, CGs are hardly worthwhile. I don't need credits, but if I wanted some I could get them far faster just running missions. I also don't go in for PvP so I'm not attracted by the "dark side" of CGs. Therefore, some kind of reward which credits can't buy is for me the only possible draw. I think the ones we've seen so far have been just right: interestingly different but not vastly OP, and not combat-related. I'll agree with OP that any gift which significantly unbalances multi-player gameplay wold be a bad idea, but given what we've seen so far I'm confident that FD realise this.

I'm going to go off on a passenger mission to get exploration data to hand in at the present CG, just to see if the offered DSS is anything remarkable.
 
Top Bottom