A Game At Odds with Itself and Why

Well, supercruise IS warp drive. 1000C (ED max) is just about equivalent to Warp Factor 8 in Star Trek. That would mean a little over 1.5 days (real time) to reach Alpha Centauri and over 3.5 days to travel 10LY. Warp Factor 9 would be around 1500C (much faster than FSD's can propel us apparently) and reduce the trip to Alpha Centauri to about a day and a bit less than 2.5 days to travel 10Ly.

I'll agree that the ENTIRE FSD MODEL needs a rework but warp drive isn't the answer.

I'm pretty sure I travelled faster than 1000C. I think the limit is higher but I'm not sure of the actual number. 2000 maybe?

Edit: From the wiki : Maximum Supercruise speed (when not affected by stellar bodies) is 2,001c and takes 57 min to reach.
 
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What? They can't stop talking about it, even if it is to complain! They've been at it for over a year thus far, and the "why this game sucks" posts show no signs of dying out.

*Gasp* What!? the player base that has a financial investment into their "season pass" (lets be honest here) "Early Access" have concerns in the direction the Elite Spaceman Braben Simulator is going? My word, someone should give those lads a stern talking to. Clearly they were never told that this is a game for the aging 40 something gamer trying to relive a modernization of their childhood favorite game. If you seem to find a lack of content or repetitive game play, your just not using your imagination hard enough. You Need Imaginate More Harder! :)
 
I'm pretty sure I travelled faster than 1000C. I think the limit is higher but I'm not sure of the actual number. 2000 maybe?

Edit: From the wiki : Maximum Supercruise speed (when not affected by stellar bodies) is 2,001c and takes 57 min to reach.

...and that's one of the key stats I really hope Engineers can help us with!
 
Well, supercruise IS warp drive. 1000C (ED max) is just about equivalent to Warp Factor 8 in Star Trek. That would mean a little over 1.5 days (real time) to reach Alpha Centauri and over 3.5 days to travel 10LY. Warp Factor 9 would be around 1500C (much faster than FSD's can propel us apparently) and reduce the trip to Alpha Centauri to about a day and a bit less than 2.5 days to travel 10Ly.

I'll agree that the ENTIRE FSD MODEL needs a rework but warp drive isn't the answer.

Well, if I want to go really far, without wanting to stop; this idea of warping (or whatever name; name not important), at least as an alternative, is kind of nice.
Ok, maybe it will take a day or to to get there (maybe even more?), but that can be a good alternative to be jumping and jumping and jumping, for hours and hours AND - yes - hours.

Don't think it is a bad idea at all. :)

Edit:
Well; I am talking about traveling between star systems, not supercruise.
The ability to make jumps between stars within a star system; I will welcome that too. :)
 
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Ya know I can understand that people enjoy the game but I can't understand people that ridicule those that comment on the game's (all too apparent) problems.

Like, they don't see the problems themselves (fair enough), but this means, for some reason - known only to themselves, that they have to respond by deriding the person that commented on a problem.

I see that many posters like to make out that they are more mature than those that stoop to play such atrocious (in their eyes) games such as WoW or CoD but this forum is riddled with immaturity dressed up, unconvincingly, as 'mature' comments.
 
A couple areas I would like to see the Devs concentrate on are

1)Exploration - More unique things to find on planets - lifeforms - Plants/Animals etc. Some dangerous, most not. Some useful. Some can injure crew( Once we have a crew) or make them Ill. These things I hope they are working on. Until we get there, exploration will be somewhat sterile.

2) Events - Things that can happen during your Journey. Perhaps a crew member(Or you) becomes Ill requiring you to divert or risk losing them(If you do not have the required medical equipment). Mechanical problems requiring you to find the necessary parts to repair (If you do not carry them).
Right now NPC's either attack you or ignore you. Perhaps they could ask for assistance - medical or with repairs. Once done they may reward you. Maybe one of their crew will want to join yours or they give you exploration data.
Perhaps missions could be offered from ships you meet in Hyperspace ? How about if a ship who interdicts isn't always looking for a fight ? Maybe they just want to ask for assistance or for information. Naturally you wouldn't want this to happen too often or it could become annoying.


If they concentrate on these areas I think we will find the game much more interesting but it will take time unfortunately.
 
Having read the entirety of the post (which some commenters didn't seem to have the time/patience to do) I agree with most of OPs points. You can't disagree that the game presented by David Braben and the game we got is completely different. He explains a thing he wants, which seems awesome, then Frontier implements it in an utterly mundane way and then Braben says 'Well done' and they move on to the next "feature" which will be evenly unfinished and/or boring.

You can't defend the fact that most of the features seem placeholders without any indication work is being done on them.

Ya know I can understand that people enjoy the game but I can't understand people that ridicule those that comment on the game's (all too apparent) problems.

Like, they don't see the problems themselves (fair enough), but this means, for some reason - known only to themselves, that they have to respond by deriding the person that commented on a problem.

I see that many posters like to make out that they are more mature than those that stoop to play such atrocious (in their eyes) games such as WoW or CoD but this forum is riddled with immaturity dressed up, unconvincingly, as 'mature' comments.

To be honest, the answer is older age: Most of the forumites here are above 50 and often older people start to act more immature the older they get. It's something that has been woven into many anecdotes and jokes that the older people get, the more they resemble a child. It's also something psychologically proven that they're more likely to throw tantrums, but because of their life experience they can disguise it behind the 'life lessons' they want to impart unto the youth, while actually they're just being big babies.
 
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You asked what was perfect about the game, you were told by multiple people that nothing is, but we enjoy it. Then you claim the game is broken, which is clearly false, the game not being what YOU want it to be doesn't make it broken, it makes your choices incorrect in that you choose to play the wrong game for what you want to do.

I pick up WoW and start to complain that I can't fly a spaceship or shoot lasers, who's going to take me seriously? Oddly enough, there are a number of people who'l agree with me and tell me I'm right and that WoW is broken and NEEDS spaceships and laser to be playable. Nevermind that WoW has been around for a decade and is doing what it was designed to do, SOME people think it should be something else all together or it's broken. You are one of those people, Elite Dangerous isn't perfect, none of us said it was, we even pointed out things we'd personally like to see fixed and/or changed, but you want ANOTHER game all together, so unless they totally redo the game, it will always be broken to you. And I'll lay odds that even if they redid the game to fix exactly what you demand, it would still be broken in your eyes.




Actually, a typical MMO and Elite have only 2 things in common really. They are online games and there are lots of people all playing in the same persistent game world.

Beyond that, nothing alike, which if you'd actually played any MMOs, you'd realize rather quickly. I can start over today in Elite Dangerous and have a buddy give me enough cargo to buy an Anaconda in a few hours, and I can use that Anaconda that quickly. There's no areas I can't go to due to my level or time ingame, there's no equipment I can't access due to my level, and there's nothing I can't do because of my level. The ranks we have in Elite Dangerous really don't equate to levels in almost every other MMO out there(and most single player games as well), as they don't serve the same functions at all, they simply limit the types of missions we get or access to very specific toys, which can be removed at any time by FD for whatever reasons(see all the people who've gotten Clippers without having any Imperial ranks). I can't get the top raid gear in WoW without actually getting high enough level to do the raids and if I get it and I'm below the level, I can't use it. What do we have in Elite that you can get but can't use?

No, Elite is an MMO in definition only, massive multiplayer online, that's it. Otherwise, it's nothing like the standard MMOs out there. And that's without touching on the fact that those standard MMOs all have exactly X amount of content and that's it until more gets added. You do the quests in the storyline, that's it, you're done. There are sometimes side quests you can do but once you've done them, well, you've done them. I've got around a thousand hours in Elite Dangerous currently, and I've not reached the end of the content because there's no fixed handcrafted content for me to run out of. There are always new missions for me to do, they may be repeats of the missions I've done before, varied by who's giving them and why, but they are always there for me to do. I have enough time in Elite to have completed all the storylines in SW:TOR many times over, took me less than 200 hours to complete all of them, and that includes lots of time spent playing Huttball and doing PvP stuff which isn't related to the storylines at all, and me helping my friends do their own storyline quests multiple times. Couple hundred hours, did everything in the game multiple times over, only kept playing THAT long because of my friends there, and once they got done with their storylines, well, we all stopped playing, there's little replay value and no reason to keep playing when you finish the content.

You try some of the standard MMOs, you'll understand soon enough.

You have a serious problem with misinterpreting what people post and exaggerating what you want to think they mean. Without fault does not equal perfect no matter how many times you want to regurgitate it. This game has broken parts. Period. Broken missions and NPCs that don't follow the rules are just two things. I'm not going to sit here and list every one just to appease your lack of sensibility. You're either being facetious or blindly ignorant.
 
Having read the entirety of the post (which some commenters didn't seem to have the time/patience to do) I agree with most of OPs points. You can't disagree that the game presented by David Braben and the game we got is completely different. He explains a thing he wants, which seems awesome, then Frontier implements it in an utterly mundane way and then Braben says 'Well done' and they move on to the next "feature" which will be evenly unfinished and/or boring.

You can't defend the fact that most of the features seem placeholders without any indication work is being done on them.

Except the dev updates, which clearly state they are working on existing features, starting from the presentation of the missions. Does working on Minor Factions and their interactions with players count as working on existing features? I think it does.
 
Except the dev updates, which clearly state they are working on existing features, starting from the presentation of the missions. Does working on Minor Factions and their interactions with players count as working on existing features? I think it does.

They have been 'reworking' missions since 1.3 as far as I remember. That doesn't give me much hope that this time, they will work. If they work as intended, I will gladly swallow my words, but the experience of the previous year hasn't given me much faith.
 
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Ya know I can understand that people enjoy the game but I can't understand people that ridicule those that comment on the game's (all too apparent) problems.

Like, they don't see the problems themselves (fair enough), but this means, for some reason - known only to themselves, that they have to respond by deriding the person that commented on a problem.

I see that many posters like to make out that they are more mature than those that stoop to play such atrocious (in their eyes) games such as WoW or CoD but this forum is riddled with immaturity dressed up, unconvincingly, as 'mature' comments.
As many people do not understand the ridicule towards those who enjoy the game. You know the kind of comment. Braben is our lord and saviour. Any criticism towards the game is like blasphemy to us. Those who enjoy the game are easily amused. Might as well put a stick in our hands and imagine we're flying a spaceship. And I share your dislike towards that type of people. Since whenever they enter the discussion, on whatever side they may be, they are conversation killers.

Comfort yourself in the notion that people who judge other people by the games they play and enjoy have a very poor understanding of character. So the judgments they make are equally poor.
 
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I'm pretty sure I travelled faster than 1000C. I think the limit is higher but I'm not sure of the actual number. 2000 maybe?

Edit: From the wiki : Maximum Supercruise speed (when not affected by stellar bodies) is 2,001c and takes 57 min to reach.

Well in that case it's about Warp 9.35 and would take you about 18 hours to get to Alpha Centauri and 42 hours to get go 10 LY.
 
They have been 'reworking' missions since 1.3 as far as I remember. That doesn't give me much hope that this time, they will work. If they work as intended, I will gladly swallow my words, but the experience of the previous year, hasn't given me much faith.

Fair point.

I don't think the missions, in terms of content, will change very much at 2.1 but it's pretty clear with persistent entities and the mentioned BGS narratives, the general presentation to the player should improve a lot. Also, MB said that despite not having a mission system as good as they wanted to have, they couldn't do the work they are now doing without making all the changes they did since 1.3. Well, I choose to be conservatively hopeful. I'll wait and see and then judge.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's quite funny that we are waiting for 2.1 so missions will work properly. That speaks volumes in itself I think.

Of course it does. It means we understand how a game is made from scratch and what work in progress means, and some other people don't.
 
'problematic' which is just a silly word with no meaning anymore other than as a hot word for certain social war tribes.

prob·lem·at·ic
ˌpräbləˈmadik/
adjective
adjective: problematic


noun
noun: problematic; plural noun: problematics

  • 1.
    a thing that constitutes a problem or difficulty.
    "the problematics of artificial intelligence"



 
Regardless of what you use as examples, one thing doesn't cease to amaze me, they were _VERY_ clear on all these things, seasons, steady development cycle, and everything, much much more then any other game company i've seen so far, yet somehow people still get upset, are bugs annoying, yes of course, but they 'are' working on it.


Everyone expects the old Waterfall development cycle.

Sorry, it is all Scrum/Agile/Devops. Push it out, fix it on the next iteration.
 
You think so? Nearly all of the current crop of forum contributors are relatively new. The original, Kickstarter, crew are almost all absent.
Not in my experience. :)
True, some post quite seldom, or have indeed left the 'forum community', but there are lots of us still present. Post-Kickstarter folk just outnumber the Kickstarter crew by quite a margin.

It is indeed 2,001c. I involountarily tested it when I accidentally left it running.
Dang, I still haven't tested emergency stop at 2001c, have to do it once I get back to bubble!
 
No secret: Elite is a game at odd with itself. Or rather, the game as it exists, is at odds with the one Mr. Braben clearly wants to make.

Consider Mr. Braben's recent PCGamer interview. He talked about how there are tons of things to do in Elite. There aren't, of course; Mr. Braben commonly mistakes "doing the same thing lots of times" with "having lots to do" and it's a very revealing and very problematic paradigm. As long as Mr Braben believes Elite has lots to do, it never will, since he will not believe that adding more to do is needed. In terms of the robust game with ample player activities Mr. Braben imagines he has already created, the bare bones, three-pronged combat/trade/beep-scanning (I refuse to call that "Exploration" any longer) is a game at odds with what it's creator wishes it to become.

Likewise, Mr. Braben indicates that players do not travel enough. In fact he nearly goes so far as to blame players for not finding all of the things that (he mostly imagines) his game holds for them. The problem: Mr. Braben's game, as it actually exists, entices players not to explore the bubble but to stay put and make friends with one or two local factions. This rep gain is, after all, the only way to receive better missions and larger profits. Mr. Braben wants us to explore his Galaxy, but his game punishes us for doing so.

Mr. Braben talks about the lonely, lone-pilot-against-the-galaxy feeling he wants Elite to embody. Then he created an online, multiplayer game with frequent Community Goals. He imagines an online community that does not exist, full of loners who will never want to group up or band together, content to play together but in isolation. Give players an open, living universe and they will want the means to group up and exert influence. This is simple human nature.

Elite's biggest problem is that the creator behind the game believes himself to be making - and indeed, to mostly already have made - the ultimate Han Solo simulator. A lone pilot and their ship, free to roam about a living Galaxy full of enjoyable, varied and profitable yet risky tasks to undertake. In fact this neither describes Elite as it exists nor even it's underlying design philosophy, if the current game is any indication. For the game Braben and company are actually making is a repetitive space grind with three lackluster activities, all of them equally pointless after a short time, that actively encourages people NOT to explore their (not so living or dynamic) universe, but to pick a spot and stay there, all the while wishing the always online, multiplayer REQUIREMENT actually served some functional purpose beyond frustrating Europe on Sunday evenings.

Elite is a game at odds with what it wants to be. Elite's foundation is a bedrock frought with cracks and fractures, from bugs to game play decisions that actively contradict it's creator's vision. The need to keep people grinding rep contradicts the wish to have them explore. The need for MP balance contradicts the desire for unique customization and play style changes to ships. The fear that some may shortcut the grind contradicts the desire of players to trade and run lasting economies, which ability to group up and attempt itself contradicts the loner in a harsh Galaxy vision underlining Elite to begin with.

Mr. Braben needs to remove the Rose tinted glasses of his imagination and tune into his game as it exists. People are losing interest, and worse, beginning to question whether this is even the game they were promised, or ever will be. Some of the reasons for this doubt are listed above, in case Frontier are listening at all.

People have been saying this sort of thing since 2014 and the dev's continue to push in directions that take the game away from the brilliant DDF proposals. Releasing features like powerplay, cqc, etc and now planetary landings that really don't add anything to the game only replicating the same tired old bareboned activities.

I uninstalled this several weeks ago myself I was the last of 15 friends that all pledged to the game during alpha and beta in the heady days of 2013 and early 2014 when there was so to be excited about. Sadly it was all diluted into a universe of sameness, homogenising everything everywhere wrapped in a thin veneer of lots to do. There's nothing in the game that rewards a casual player to put the few hours they have in a week into this whatsoever. I'll hang around and see what direction it goes but it's not going back on my hard drive anytime soon.
 
Clearly they were never told that this is a game for the aging 40 something gamer trying to relive a modernization of their childhood favorite game.
If you'd like to tether that prejudice a little, you might consider that, as one of those ageing 40-something gamers, my concern is in fact that this is looking like little more than a modernisation of my childhood favourite game. While you suggest that's all I want and nothing more, I assure you I do see it as a bad thing.
 
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