A great post about Balance (from reddit)

[breezerHOG1]

Mr Sugar, I think you misunderstand. Personally, I have made many posts about management, balance, finances, scenarios, objectives, etc etc.... I am not saying "I don't want management" I am just saying that construction is the primary focus in THIS game, at this current point in time. That is a fact. RCT Classic was not originally designed for major building construction, RCT did not have the advanced construction features we have in PC. That is why the devs are currently (at least so far) focusing on construction. But with the new scenario editor releasing next month, we can rest assured that improved scenarios will come from the community with more fun objectives (hopefully) well just have to wait till the next update releases soon, and then beg frontier for more next year [big grin] but we need to keep our criticism and suggestions constructive and supportive too

 

[Ramm]

What are the biggest construction additions in Planet Coaster from the last year though? There still aren't many improvements since alpha 1.5 year ago. We are still missing stuff like a fence tool, more terrain brushes and so on. Also for a game being so much about construction it's a shame we still aren't able to rotate wall pieces in all 3 dimensions. And for a game being focussed on construction we still don't have that much of folliage to choose from. It just feels so much like wasted potential sometimes it's frustrating.

Planet Coaster is a lovely game but it's a winner in getting things almost right but not just right. Which is a shame. In the last half year i've spend more times on the forums than in the actual game because i'm hoping to find out more info about what is being worked on but from the looks of it the game isn't gonna change that much anymore or we would've seen it by now. We will probably get some flat rides, a new coaster, maybe even transport rides at some point (still currently there is only 2 types after all this time which feels like a bad joke).

I hope i'm wrong but I don't expect any real changes anymore in the total game. I think reality will hit more and more and in the end this is the game and how it's gonna be.

 

[SoapyIllusion]

Great post and all. Wonderful really. I can see they colored within in the lines and everything. If I had a medal to give, that person get it. How many times are we gonna see the same complaint? We aware of the issues people have. People claim its not hard enough, that their to 'L1t3 for the game bruh. I get it, the majority of the people on this fourm get it.

At this point in the game somethings just arent going to happen. Who knows. Right now we dont know. Right now the future road map is still secret.

What we do know, is we are getting a custom scenario editor. A big edition. If it gives us quite a bit of control we can probably remedy some of our complaints ourself. At the end of the day people have to realize something. Lots of OTHER people play this game. And Planet Coaster is meant to be an approachable game for anyone. Its meant to cater to two sides. Which means any given one wont get fully realized.

In the mean time. Please please please stop reposting the same things over and over.... and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over

 

[En Anu]

In the last half year i've spend more times on the forums than in the actual game because i'm hoping to find out more info about what is being worked on but from the looks of it the game isn't gonna change that much anymore or we would've seen it by now.

Ditto, what Ramn said just says it all really!!!!!

 

[En Anu]

Great post and all. Wonderful really. I can see they colored within in the lines and everything. If I had a medal to give, that person get it. How many times are we gonna see the same complaint? We aware of the issues people have. People claim its not hard enough, that their to 'L1t3 for the game bruh. I get it, the majority of the people on this fourm get it.

At this point in the game somethings just arent going to happen. Who knows. Right now we dont know. Right now the future road map is still secret.

What we do know, is we are getting a custom scenario editor. A big edition. If it gives us quite a bit of control we can probably remedy some of our complaints ourself. At the end of the day people have to realize something. Lots of OTHER people play this game. And Planet Coaster is meant to be an approachable game for anyone. Its meant to cater to two sides. Which means any given one wont get fully realized.

In the mean time. Please please please stop reposting the same things over and over.... and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over over and over

Yes my liege, I humbly apologise for any grevience thou hast had with thy purchase of thy game....could I just add my liege that one is a tad bit disappointed as one has extensively built parks, designed great stuff, however was desperately waiting for some basic tools you find in other games and a above average management system to go with it, so alas I am bored playing it now and hoping that after a year one would see some great changes to thy game!!!!

 

[WingardiumLevicoaster]

Am I the only one that finds the game hard? In terms of managament. I have recently been playing RCT1 and it's sooooo much easier. I would worry if they made everything much harder I would lose enjoyment. Obviously have some harder scenarios .. but you don't want to push people away that may find it difficult, like children.. or me [haha]

 

[breezerHOG1]

Am I the only one that finds the game hard? In terms of managament. I have recently been playing RCT1 and it's sooooo much easier. I would worry if they made everything much harder I would lose enjoyment. Obviously have some harder scenarios .. but you don't want to push people away that may find it difficult, like children.. or me [haha]

In my opinion, its not about "hard" vs "easy", theres more to it, but simply its about "balance" (like I titled the thread). In RCT1/2 you could fail a scenario, does that make it difficult? No but it gives you incentive to try harder, and to get a better score. In RCT1/2 you could achieve a high score, but they removed that aspect from RCT3 and PC, probably to not discourage new players. In RCT1/2 we could purchase land which some might argue is not important, but it gives people choices about how to spend their money, do you buy the pond in the back of your park or wait and save money?

Considering RCT1 is 20 years old, I expected the actual objectives for the scenarios in PC to be more balanced (financially). Many of the scenarios can be completed in under a few months, and the only real challenge to career mode are the few coaster objectives (which do not help new players learn the game) there is no tutorial levels, no progression system, nothing to help new players learn the game. They just throw it all at us at once. I miss the progression I felt when playing RCT1, because each scenario felt like it offered something new, but in PC each scenario is the same large blank open flat square

On top of that, PC is actually a lot more difficult in the sense that it is wayyyyyy more time consuming.... make a mountain in PC takes 10 hours, coaster takes a few hours, but in RCT it took minutes. I actually wish PC was easier/less tedious in many ways (specifically terrain and paths) but I also wish the career scenarios had a better level of progression to them

With challenge mode, the only difficulty is maintain the prices of rides as they age, I mainly wait until I have a few "classic aged" rides and then boom Im rich and it turns into a sandbox mode after 25 years of placing flat rides. Some rides have too much prestige (like slow car rides) while other have not enough (like ferris wheels) its just not balanced

I'm not trying to "push new players away" in fact I think for the reason I mentioned, new players would enjoy a deeper career mode because many casual non-constructive players enjoy playing a simple game with puzzle elements, rather than painting a landscape on a blank easel... thats why games like Parkitect and RCT2 are still popular, but people wish PC had what those older less pretty games have, otherwise this game will remain to appeal for only a certain type of player

You know Super Mario 3 is more challenging than other Mario games, but that doesnt mean its harder to play. Theres a difference between "hard" and "challenge", PC can be hard when the tools are not great, but it is not challenging

 

[Coastercad]

In my opinion, its not about "hard" vs "easy", theres more to it, but simply its about "balance" (like I titled the thread). In RCT1/2 you could fail a scenario, does that make it difficult? No but it gives you incentive to try harder, and to get a better score. In RCT1/2 you could achieve a high score, but they removed that aspect from RCT3 and PC, probably to not discourage new players. In RCT1/2 we could purchase land which some might argue is not important, but it gives people choices about how to spend their money, do you buy the pond in the back of your park or wait and save money?

Considering RCT1 is 20 years old, I expected the actual objectives for the scenarios in PC to be more balanced (financially). Many of the scenarios can be completed in under a few months, and the only real challenge to career mode are the few coaster objectives (which do not help new players learn the game) there is no tutorial levels, no progression system, nothing to help new players learn the game. They just throw it all at us at once. I miss the progression I felt when playing RCT1, because each scenario felt like it offered something new, but in PC each scenario is the same large blank open flat square

On top of that, PC is actually a lot more difficult in the sense that it is wayyyyyy more time consuming.... make a mountain in PC takes 10 hours, coaster takes a few hours, but in RCT it took minutes. I actually wish PC was easier/less tedious in many ways (specifically terrain and paths) but I also wish the career scenarios had a better level of progression to them

With challenge mode, the only difficulty is maintain the prices of rides as they age, I mainly wait until I have a few "classic aged" rides and then boom Im rich and it turns into a sandbox mode after 25 years of placing flat rides. Some rides have too much prestige (like slow car rides) while other have not enough (like ferris wheels) its just not balanced

I'm not trying to "push new players away" in fact I think for the reason I mentioned, new players would enjoy a deeper career mode because many casual non-constructive players enjoy playing a simple game with puzzle elements, rather than painting a landscape on a blank easel... thats why games like Parkitect and RCT2 are still popular, but people wish PC had what those older less pretty games have, otherwise this game will remain to appeal for only a certain type of player

You know Super Mario 3 is more challenging than other Mario games, but that doesnt mean its harder to play. Theres a difference between "hard" and "challenge", PC can be hard when the tools are not great, but it is not challenging

I don't know what kind of mountains you make, but i can make a pretty decent mountain in 10 minutes in PC.(I can even sculpt a mushroom in 2 minutes). Building a coaster doesn't have to take long either, just pick one from the workshop. You can actually have a really good park in a short time, if you use the tools correctly and take some stuff from the workshop. Doing something in PC for 10 minutes, would probably take me 100 minutes in RCT 3.

 

[widlanquebec]

Planet Coaster is a lovely game but it's a winner in getting things almost right but not just right. Which is a shame. In the last half year i've spend more times on the forums than in the actual game because i'm hoping to find out more info about what is being worked on but from the looks of it the game isn't gonna change that much anymore or we would've seen it by now.

Unfortunately, I'm sad to see that it's the same for me.

I still keep a small hope, but this is smaller and smaller every day. I thought that this game would have changed more in a year, but I understand it's a lot of work to change fundamental things and I'm sure that the devs work really hard and do their best. But, probably that this cost too much money and time. I don't think we'll see major things changing... or I'll be very surprised and pleased to see I'm wrong.

 

[breezerHOG1]

I don't know what kind of mountains you make, but i can make a pretty decent mountain in 10 minutes in PC.(I can even sculpt a mushroom in 2 minutes). Building a coaster doesn't have to take long either,

Yea I over exaggerate a bit, but it was much much faster in RCT. I just wish we had a terrain grid [wink]

just pick one from the workshop.

but thats no fun... the way I play is to build massive semi-realistic (but not that realistic) coasters and then plop rides down and then maybe think about scenery later. I just wish the terrain was faster so I could build massive mountains and waterfalls like I could in RCT3! I've played PC quite a lot so I have built stuff, just not much with scenery. I need to get a better computer first lol

 

[mr.sugar]

In my opinion, its not about "hard" vs "easy", theres more to it, but simply its about "balance" (like I titled the thread). In RCT1/2 you could fail a scenario, does that make it difficult? No but it gives you incentive to try harder, and to get a better score. In RCT1/2 you could achieve a high score, but they removed that aspect from RCT3 and PC, probably to not discourage new players. In RCT1/2 we could purchase land which some might argue is not important, but it gives people choices about how to spend their money, do you buy the pond in the back of your park or wait and save money?Considering RCT1 is 20 years old, I expected the actual objectives for the scenarios in PC to be more balanced (financially). Many of the scenarios can be completed in under a few months, and the only real challenge to career mode are the few coaster objectives (which do not help new players learn the game) there is no tutorial levels, no progression system, nothing to help new players learn the game. They just throw it all at us at once. I miss the progression I felt when playing RCT1, because each scenario felt like it offered something new, but in PC each scenario is the same large blank open flat square On top of that, PC is actually a lot more difficult in the sense that it is wayyyyyy more time consuming.... make a mountain in PC takes 10 hours, coaster takes a few hours, but in RCT it took minutes. I actually wish PC was easier/less tedious in many ways (specifically terrain and paths) but I also wish the career scenarios had a better level of progression to themWith challenge mode, the only difficulty is maintain the prices of rides as they age, I mainly wait until I have a few "classic aged" rides and then boom Im rich and it turns into a sandbox mode after 25 years of placing flat rides. Some rides have too much prestige (like slow car rides) while other have not enough (like ferris wheels) its just not balancedI'm not trying to "push new players away" in fact I think for the reason I mentioned, new players would enjoy a deeper career mode because many casual non-constructive players enjoy playing a simple game with puzzle elements, rather than painting a landscape on a blank easel... thats why games like Parkitect and RCT2 are still popular, but people wish PC had what those older less pretty games have, otherwise this game will remain to appeal for only a certain type of playerYou know Super Mario 3 is more challenging than other Mario games, but that doesnt mean its harder to play. Theres a difference between "hard" and "challenge", PC can be hard when the tools are not great, but it is not challenging

I can sign under this. About the progression, I think this is one of the very little things RCTW does better. The progressive campaign they added in one of the updates seems to be very cool idea and I would like to seethis here too.As for PC taking too long to accomplish something, definitely agree about that one. I think PbP is actually very fast and convenient system for games like RCT/ Parkitect (grid based), but here it´s more tedious. It would have been better not to have build walls piece by piece. I don´t expect this to change in PC though, so maybe a sequel sometime in the future.

 

[En Anu]

I can sign under this. About the progression, I think this is one of the very little things RCTW does better. The progressive campaign they added in one of the updates seems to be very cool idea and I would like to seethis here too.As for PC taking too long to accomplish something, definitely agree about that one. I think PbP is actually very fast and convenient system for games like RCT/ Parkitect (grid based), but here it´s more tedious. It would have been better not to have build walls piece by piece. I don´t expect this to change in PC though, so maybe a sequel sometime in the future.

tbh I cannot stand RCTW, I moved straight over to PC and am still waiting for PC to DELIVER!!!

 

[mr.sugar]

tbh I cannot stand RCTW, I moved straight over to PC and am still waiting for PC to DELIVER!!!

RCTW is HORRIBLE game. I must admit there are few things I like, or at least ideas (that are, in the end, not well implemented - which is also a problem of PC in some cases).It´s driving me so crazy, PC is not f ar away from being actually very enjoyable game, but some problems are those I simply can´t get over. So I decided to bscly skip playing for at least a year and wait what Frontier does with the updates throughout the 2nd seasson. In the mean time, I will play some other games.

 

[Wessy]

Yea yea, thats all well and good, but RCT3 sold 10million copies but PC is still at only 1 million, whered the other 9 go?

Sorry, but those numbers are wrong. RCT3 has not nearly sold 10million copies. The entire series (RCT1,2 and 3) has sold somewhere around 10 million copies and I‘m willing to bet that RCT3 only accounts for a maximum of 2-3 million of those, a lot of them beeing sold at a much cheaper price after a couple of years.
So I think PC is doing quite well, honestly.

 

[breezerHOG1]

Sorry, but those numbers are wrong. RCT3 has not nearly sold 10million copies. The entire series (RCT1,2 and 3) has sold somewhere around 10 million copies and I‘m willing to bet that RCT3 only accounts for a maximum of 2-3 million of those, a lot of them beeing sold at a much cheaper price after a couple of years.
So I think PC is doing quite well, honestly.

In January 2000, RollerCoaster Tycoon was announced the best selling PC game of 1999. By July 2002, RollerCoaster Tycoon had sold 4 million copies. Before the release of RollerCoaster Tycoon 2, global sales of the RollerCoaster Tycoon series had surpassed 6 million units, including more than 4 million units in North America. The series' combined sales—including those of RollerCoaster Tycoon 2, Wacky Worlds and Time Twister—rose to 7 million copies by April 2004. That obviously does not include RCT3... I can’t find any recent number of sales for RCT1/2 but I assume RCT1/2 has easily broken 10 million copies since they already sold 7 million by 2004.

The free-to-play versions of RCT4/Touch have been downloaded over 10 million times. And since the failure of RCTW, sales for RCT3 have actually increased in the past couple years as well.

In June 2015, Frontier CEO David Braben reported that RCT3 had sold "more than 10 million copies". That was actually 2 years ago, so the numbers are probably higher now. Notice that David Braben and Frontier did not produce RCT1/2, so they would not include those games in their sales figures. It is possible that RCT3 sold 5 million copies and the RCT3 expansions sold another 5 million, and they added those figures together to get 10 million (I'm not sure though) but the numbers have risen even higher in the past year

Also notice that this does not include sales for RCT Classic or RCT3mobile, or any pirated copies of the games. So, the RCT franchise as a whole has probably sold over 20 million units by now, and the entire genre as a whole easily has nearly 30 million possible fans who have enjoyed these games

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RollerCoaster_Tycoon_(video_game)#Commercial_performance

 

[dixinormous]

In the last half year I've spend more times on the forums than in the actual game because i'm hoping to find out more info about what is being worked on

Hate to admit it... but me too! [haha][haha][haha]

The forums are my guilty pleasure. I think I get some perverse pleasure in the lack of info and the drama that follows. It's kind of masochistic really.

 

[Wessy]

By July 2002, RollerCoaster Tycoon had sold 4 million copies. Before the release of RollerCoaster Tycoon 2, global sales of the RollerCoaster Tycoon series had surpassed 6 million units, including more than 4 million units in North America. The series' combined sales—including those of RollerCoaster Tycoon 2, Wacky Worlds and Time Twister—rose to 7 million copies by April 2004. That obviously does not include RCT3... I can’t find any recent number of sales for RCT1/2 but I assume RCT1/2 has easily broken 10 million copies since they already sold 7 million by 2004.

The free-to-play versions of RCT4/Touch have been downloaded over 10 million times. And since the failure of RCTW, sales for RCT3 have actually increased in the past couple years as well.

In June 2015, Frontier CEO David Braben reported that RCT3 had sold "more than 10 million copies". That was actually 2 years ago, so the numbers are probably higher now. Notice that David Braben and Frontier did not produce RCT1/2, so they would not include those games in their sales figures. It is possible that RCT3 sold 5 million copies and the RCT3 expansions sold another 5 million, and they added those figures together to get 10 million (I'm not sure though) but the numbers have risen even higher in the past year

Also notice that this does not include sales for RCT Classic or RCT3mobile, or any pirated copies of the games. So, the RCT franchise as a whole has probably sold over 20 million units by now, and the entire genre as a whole easily has nearly 30 million possible fans who have enjoyed these games

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RollerCoaster_Tycoon_(video_game)#Commercial_performance

Oh wow, looks like I was way off [woah]. The figures I saw were from 2008, so they might be quite different now.

Anyway, I think PC is doing quite well for now. But also there is still a lot of potential, if they keep updating the game and releasing expansions.
After all, RCT3 recieved quite a lot of criticism when it released in 2004 and only through time and expansion packs became the timeless classic we all love.

BTW, here is an interesting discussion on themeparkreview.com from that time
http://www.themeparkreview.com/foru...sid=9d3b8ba2568e47530d3afdb1fcea0aa7&start=20

 

[Ramm]

Hate to admit it... but me too! [haha][haha][haha]

The forums are my guilty pleasure. I think I get some perverse pleasure in the lack of info and the drama that follows. It's kind of masochistic really.

Nah I don't really like it anymore and I don't know why I keep doing it.. It's so frustrating to see no progress. I don't even know why i'm fooling myself. It's those little things that you wait for but they don't come.

Why are we still stuck at a minimum snap angle of 11.25 degrees? Why can't we put in our own value in a text field? And so on and so on. What ARE they doing?

 

[widlanquebec]

What I found strange is that there's so much attention to the detail (for example the audio) or all the small incredible attention to animation, to just name these 2 examples and in the same time, there's so much to balance and to adjust in the gameplay... Yes, there was small changes and adjustment, but a lot of adjustment and addition to the UI and gameplay are still missing.

Why is it so long to adjust? Is it because the AI is so complicated that is nearly impossible to solve or because they don't really care about this? Probably it's just because it's complicated and take a lot of time, but the artists working on the game make incredible jobs with so much (for example audio team polished the already amazing audio) and during the same time, the AI, controls, graphics still have some problems that are there since a long time.

Is the programming is too complicated to really be functional and balanced?

 

[dixinormous]

Why is it so long to adjust? Is it because the AI is so complicated that is nearly impossible to solve or because they don't really care about this?

At the risk of sounding like an idiot (I know nothing about the realities of the situation)...

Reading between the lines of the audio thread, the AI / simulation engine has a lot of dependencies, and because of that any changes require a huge amount of testing. Presumably that's where the bottleneck is.

IF that is the case, it doesn't make you wonder why they're adding more layers before fixing the underlying issues. I have my own theories, but at the end of the day... it's all just speculation.

Regardless of why or how we're in this situation... there's a legitimate risk that lots of players will end up with buyers remorse because the game just isn't what it was cracked up to be. Sure, in the hands of experts, it looks great. But really, that's not a game, that's just YouTube content.