A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Deleted member 115407]

Oh! Spoke a little too soon... This system has flipped

We are still in a state of WAR, with no pending or cooldown state, but we're firmly in control of the system and the orbital. The system has shifted from Indie Anarchy to Low Security Federation.

The CZ must have shifted due to the war cooling down.

Champagne all around folks. The Delanos Mercenary Group has done its job!

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Can anyone tell me what "Investment" state is? I found a couple long-range systems in that state, but don't have any exploration data or frame of reference.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Btw, in the case of Jaques, I wonder how FD will realize a new bubble (if that's what actually is planned) around Jaques if no inhabitant system is in range. I suppose it will boil down to some 'godly handwork'. Can't see how it otherwise would work with regular BGS mechanics...

I'm hoping there is some new functionality planned in 2.2, where players can effect the creation of new colonies. This could result in the need for passenger missions to transport the colonists to these colonies. I'm not sure how they would first get created, but once there is a pad to land on everything else could be left to the BGS and player actions.

 

[Ben Ryder]

Another simple question chaps.

Trading. I remember it was kind of oddly implemented in the past where it meant that indiviual transactions were more effective than delivering in bulk.

Is trading efftecive in boosting an exsiting faction economy.

Basically what do you need to trade in and out of a system and to what level to boost the controlling factions influence and how much is needed.

Secondly how can trading be harmful to a controlling faction.

Finally is smuggling effective and how does it work to alter factions influences.

It might be obvious but wonders will never cease.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Oh! Spoke a little too soon... This system has flipped

We are still in a state of WAR, with no pending or cooldown state, but we're firmly in control of the system and the orbital. The system has shifted from Indie Anarchy to Low Security Federation.

The CZ must have shifted due to the war cooling down.

Champagne all around folks. The Delanos Mercenary Group has done its job!

This is normal. When the system flips, you'll still be in a Conflict state (War/CW/Election) for the following day then it will revert to None or some other state if any are pending, and Cooldown for one day also.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Another simple question chaps.

Trading. I remember it was kind of oddly implemented in the past where it meant that indiviual transactions were more effective than delivering in bulk.

Is trading efftecive in boosting an exsiting faction economy.

Basically what do you need to trade in and out of a system and to what level to boost the controlling factions influence and how much is needed.

Secondly how can trading be harmful to a controlling faction.

Finally is smuggling effective and how does it work to alter factions influences.

It might be obvious but wonders will never cease.

There was a period where it was noticed that trading 1t per transaction had a greater effect than trading all at once. This was 'buffed' by FD, to be less effective.
Selling to/Buying from the market only helps the station (therefore the station owing faction) where the goods are bought/sold.
It was proposed and that selling goods that don't normally appear on its market list were a detriment to the market (read station) owning faction, but never really confirmed I believe.
Black Market sales hurt the market owners.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Trade, and most other things work on profit. It appears that the single transaction buff has been left in place for exploration data and combat bonds, not sure about bounties. But influence changes for trading and smuggling work off total profit, as do the others if you do them in one go. It used to be possible to drastically lower a faction's influence by selling a commodity at a loss (one at a time). I think a loss still lowers influence, but not as drastically.
I'm not sure how fines work either. I hope they are total credit value too, rather then number of fines, as dumping cargo near a station can earn large numbers of small fines very quickly.
Another thing I'm not totally certain of is buying goods from a station. I think it all raises the influence a small amount, but high supply goods are better. It is possible it is on credits, not numbers, and supply may not matter.

 

[Ben Ryder]

So basically selling at a profit will help the existing controlling faction?

Selling on the black market at a profit will harm the existing faction?

Does buying stuff from a station effect influence in anyway?

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Does buying stuff from a station effect influence in anyway?

That's the one I'm not certain about. I think it does, but I'm not sure if it's by credits, numbers or supply.

 

[goemon]

Trade, and most other things work on profit. It appears that the single transaction buff has been left in place for exploration data and combat bonds, not sure about bounties. But influence changes for trading and smuggling work off total profit, as do the others if you do them in one go. It used to be possible to drastically lower a faction's influence by selling a commodity at a loss (one at a time). I think a loss still lowers influence, but not as drastically.
I'm not sure how fines work either. I hope they are total credit value too, rather then number of fines, as dumping cargo near a station can earn large numbers of small fines very quickly.
Another thing I'm not totally certain of is buying goods from a station. I think it all raises the influence a small amount, but high supply goods are better. It is possible it is on credits, not numbers, and supply may not matter.

- there is a difference between bonds/bounties and trading: you can't cash in smaller batches of bonds/bounties from the same faction; e.g. you can only cash in more often. influence change via bonds/bounties is depending on bountie/bond transactions, so shooting 1 eagle and cashing in once has the same effect as shooting 100 anacondas and cashing in once - but secondary effects of shipkills (depending on number), and maybe "profit" apply; they are weak though.

- some people claim, while 1T trading has no greater effect, that batches of 10T or transaction per market refresh (each 11 min) do

- selling for a loss still ruins the market controlling factions influence; seen myself with no demand-sold for loss commodities

- in 1.5. buying from a market had no effect; did not retest in 2.1. (but i actually don't think that has changed)

- patch notes for 2.1. mentioned changes of fines, needs testing

- selling illegal goods still nukes the station controlling factions influence, tested myself in 2.1. with stolen goods at an anarchies faction

 

[Jmanis]

Just coz I keep seeing this come up,,,

Selling black-market goods does not cause civil unrest. It causes economic bust. Happy to get proof if people need it, but this is the following state-causes I can guarantee* to be correct, because I regularly conduct activities to deliberately and reliably cause problems (or benefits):

Boom - Caused by positive trading effects i.e for profit
Bust - Caused by black market sales
Lockdown - Caused by destroying System Authority Vessels
Civil Unrest - Caused by destroying non-system authorities that aren't wanted.

So basically selling at a profit will help the existing controlling faction? Yes

Selling on the black market at a profit will harm the existing faction? Yes, and will increase your reputation with that faction

Does buying stuff from a station effect influence in anyway? I've observed some effects, but not measured anything yet, so can't be sure.

* By "guarantee" I mean these are actions that will contribute to these states. There may be other things that can cause them.

 

[Sentenza]

Any idea about what causes outbreak and famine?

 

[jimbeau1571]

A fellow Cmdr commented to me the other day that the markets are constantly refreshing to the default supply ie, he buys 600t, delivers it to another system then returns for more and the market has the same supply available each time. So you can no longer reduce the supply of commodities. I disagreed, saying that it didn't use to do that, but that it would resupply some but not all of what you bought and the supply would drop over time. (I'm talking about 10 mins from buying->selling->buying, not a 24hr period).
So I tried it myself with 432t in an Anni, and low and behold, the supply of the commoditiy would always be the same on return. So once more, the market appears to have lost any dynamicism.

Agreed?

 

[Jmanis]

Any idea about what causes outbreak and famine?

Nope. Not me anyway... I know there's speculation about biowaste deliveries... I'm skeptical though.

Personally, I think it's caused by a system not getting enough trade goods of a certain type in, or possibly an outright lack of trade full stop... that's why core systems are mostly fine (because high player activity), and border systems are prone to it (low player activity)

 

[Sentenza]

Nope. Not me anyway... I know there's speculation about biowaste deliveries... I'm skeptical though.

Personally, I think it's caused by a system not getting enough trade goods of a certain type in, or possibly an outright lack of trade full stop... that's why core systems are mostly fine (because high player activity), and border systems are prone to it (low player activity)

I am in a really high activity area and there are A LOT of outbreaks and famines, half the systems seem to be in one. That's why I am wondering if there is specific player activity causing it.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Nope. Not me anyway... I know there's speculation about biowaste deliveries... I'm skeptical though.

Personally, I think it's caused by a system not getting enough trade goods of a certain type in, or possibly an outright lack of trade full stop... that's why core systems are mostly fine (because high player activity), and border systems are prone to it (low player activity)

I don't see this as the reason either sorry. I have all my systems on the fringe, rarely trade into them (to avoid pushing the influence beyond the 75%) and my faction has never been in Famine/Outbreak in any system yet. But, in 3 of the 8 systems I am in, the other minor factions have no control of any asset and yet are flipping in and out of Famine/Outbreak. One is even in Famine with Outbreak pending.
If my faction was also suffering, the lack of trade through those systems would make sense as to a reason but at the minute I can not explain it.

This bug thread was opened referring to missions issues with regards to famine and outbreak, and how it is working.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...utbreak-Famine-State-Trends)-after-completion

 

[Ben Ryder]

Just coz I keep seeing this come up,,,

Selling black-market goods does not cause civil unrest. It causes economic bust. Happy to get proof if people need it, but this is the following state-causes I can guarantee* to be correct, because I regularly conduct activities to deliberately and reliably cause problems (or benefits):

Boom - Caused by positive trading effects i.e for profit
Bust - Caused by black market sales
Lockdown - Caused by destroying System Authority Vessels
Civil Unrest - Caused by destroying non-system authorities that aren't wanted.

So basically selling at a profit will help the existing controlling faction? Yes

Selling on the black market at a profit will harm the existing faction? Yes, and will increase your reputation with that faction

Does buying stuff from a station effect influence in anyway? I've observed some effects, but not measured anything yet, so can't be sure.

* By "guarantee" I mean these are actions that will contribute to these states. There may be other things that can cause them.

Just went to try out some trading and smuggling in a station and the commodities market ha vanished. The station is in Lockdown. Could that be the cause or could it have been UA bombed? The blackmarket and misson board etc. are still operational.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Just went to try out some trading and smuggling in a station and the commodities market ha vanished. The station is in Lockdown. Could that be the cause or could it have been UA bombed? The blackmarket and misson board etc. are still operational.

Lockdown removes the market for the duration.

 

[Jmanis]

I don't see this as the reason either sorry. I have all my systems on the fringe, rarely trade into them (to avoid pushing the influence beyond the 75%) and my faction has never been in Famine/Outbreak in any system yet. But, in 3 of the 8 systems I am in, the other minor factions have no control of any asset and yet are flipping in and out of Famine/Outbreak. One is even in Famine with Outbreak pending.
If my faction was also suffering, the lack of trade through those systems would make sense as to a reason but at the minute I can not explain it.

This bug thread was opened referring to missions issues with regards to famine and outbreak, and how it is working.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...utbreak-Famine-State-Trends)-after-completion

Moar testing required!

 

[goemon]

Civil Unrest - Caused by destroying non-system authorities that aren't wanted.

civil unrest is an effect of killing any ship of a minor faction, wanted or not. you only overwrite that effect normally by cashing in bounties.

Any idea about what causes outbreak and famine?

strong idicators, that biowaste trading leads to outbreak, but it is for sure not the only source.

 

[Flavourless]

Are we sure that Expansion is triggered at 75% (as reported several places here)?

My faction are below 50% but still insist on expanding, even though I want them to consolidate.

They have been over 75%, but at least several weeks ago, (as I have since then been working hard to raise the other factions standings).