Our group is pending expansion as well. Can we tell where we are expanding to now or does that not happen until we hit expansion? And to tell where we are expanding to do we just scout surrounding systems?
A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim
- Thread starter Walt Kerman
- Start date
You can hold your cards, but if the civil war ends between D&E, then you might end up in conflict with the winner before taking on C
Deleted member 115407
D
I'll take that. I'll do my best to preserve the expansion for now, and come back to deal with this asset later.
If I haven't messed it up already. War triggers at 5%, right? I may have just tipped the scales.
Thanks all.
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since 2.1. you will expand to the closest system in 20 ly range with less than 7 factions in it.
From what I observed, war now forces expansion to complete rather than abort it, so you can have both.
So, interestingly, the faction in a neighbouring system has gone into famine. This ties in pretty well with me spending the last week doing nothing but selling biowaste/algae (which is a food, ironically) at a loss. 500t a day for a total of around 2.5k tonnes of loss generation.
I wonder if there's at least a connection between famine and selling things for a loss on the market? Could just be coincidence.
On an aside, the faction in a famine state is one I'm trying to knock out of power. Anyone know of actions I can take that are particularly effective at reducing their influence whilst in famine?
I wonder if there's at least a connection between famine and selling things for a loss on the market? Could just be coincidence.
On an aside, the faction in a famine state is one I'm trying to knock out of power. Anyone know of actions I can take that are particularly effective at reducing their influence whilst in famine?
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Isn't famine more vulnerable to becoming outbreak?
I'm not sure how this hurts a faction though.
I'm not sure how this hurts a faction though.
The BGS in Sothis appears all flavours of messed up at the moment. Here's the states (note: Sirius in Investment, and Deep Space Clan in a single-sided war???)
However, going to the conflict zones, they appear to be in a Ceasefire (you can't pick a side), however the ships present are Federation Unite! and Liberate Ceos ships.
Further still, on the system map...
All flavours of messed up...
However, going to the conflict zones, they appear to be in a Ceasefire (you can't pick a side), however the ships present are Federation Unite! and Liberate Ceos ships.
Further still, on the system map...
All flavours of messed up...
Nearest system with less than 7 factions. Not sure to what radius out this works now, but I have heard 20ly mentioned a lot. It used to be upward of 30ly prior to 2.1 but that was debated to.
Quick way to work out where, use this link and add your system name into the reference system box. Not 100% guarenteed, but as near as dammit. Some oddities may be missing, like those really low populated systems with one planetary landing available.
https://eddb.io/system
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Coincidence. Do nothing in a system for weeks and you'll see famine and outbreak come and go.
I'd bug report all of that, because that is properly screwed up
some armchair theorizing 27 k ly from sol:
- let us assume, the outbreak and famine bucket gets constantly filled over time
- there are multipliers like standard of living
- there are actions adding to it like biowaste trading (either as an exported good of a station or missions ... actually stations exported goods also have those for trading missions)
... and there are actions countering that permanent filling bucket.
now, if a faction doesn't have a market, and no player doing missions, it will end in outbreak/famine over time.
Done.
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I'm going to theorize more with loss trading.
I haven't done loss trading since outbreak/famine became more prolific... I have several systems I want to target, and Famine at least makes sense as a by-product of loss trading, sending a government ostensibly into poverty (using game-logic, not real logic)
taken from the action tables, which don't cover trade at a loss = getting influence down, this would mean
trading with loss (no demand?) = + bust, - influence
trading food with loss = + famine, +bust, - influence
trading medicines with loss = + outbreak, +bust, - influence
could well be (as additional factors) and shouldn't be hard to test...
Which I would agree with if it was applicable to every faction in a system. Only in my systems, as I have stated before, my faction has never been in famine or outbreak despite having no action for week months in one system and the influence levels remaining the same.
If there was no actions countering the permanent bucket fill, then all factions should go to famine and outbreak. If anything, famine should lead to outbreak (famine leading to death leading to disease), the population of the system should drop, standards of living should fall rapidly, influence levels of the leading faction should plummet and eventually the system descend into anarchy. Only the BGS isn't that fluid and dynamic. We know that much. It's nowhere near as complicated as we would wish for.
What I will propose though, is that it is all counter based. Expansion - 75% ... a counter. Retreat - less than 2.5% ... a counter.
Looking at my spreadsheet of the 9 systems I run or am present in, since the beginning of August I have seen:
5 Factions in Famine, ranging from 3.2% to 17.6% (17.6% was ended by the faction going into War)
6 Factions in Outbreak, ranging from 4.0 % to 18.2%.
I own all the stations, markets of the systems where Famine or Outbreak have taken place. In 2 systems where I have presence but no ownership, there has been no Famine or Outbreak this month but one faction does own all assets with markets. So it has nothing to do with sole ownership either.
In one system, of 3 factions (2 plus mine) the others both went to Outbreak, 18.2% and 11.3% respectively. Fac A came out of Outbreak when I made influence efforts on Fac B, in order to lower my faction to prevent it from expanding from this system. This triggered the equalising of the others, and CW came pending. Fac A, in the pedning period came out of Outbreak, went into Famine a day later, then went to CW the day after that!
As it stands today, in 1 system of 4 factions, one fac is Outbreak at 13.6% (6 days) and another is Famine 11.9% (8 days).
In a second system, of 5 factions, one fac in Famine at 14.2% (8 days) and the another in Famine at 3.7% (19 days, I deleted the data for July so it is actually longer than that), and another is in Outbreak 8.1% (6 days). The fourth faction has never been in Outbreak or Famine for the whole of this month with an influence between 3.5% and 4.7%. My faction has been in boom and expansion , ranging from 70.5% and 87.9%.
So how do these counters relate to famine and Outbreak - att, no idea. But something is counting.
Looking at my figures, the thresholds could be as high as 20% for famine or outbreak to go pending. But the why? Lack of activity? No .... one faction has been no higher than 4.7% all month but never in Famine or Outbreak.
![zx4Lhie.jpg](http://[URL="http://imgur.com/zx4Lhie"][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zx4Lhie.jpg)
This is the spreadsheet.
Red/Pink is Boom
Yellow is Expansion
Green is Outbreak
Grey is Famine
Blue is War
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The bucket theme would be consistent with other modifiers. (Is a 'bucket' the same as 'pool'?) Tracking down cause and effect is going to be difficult, but here are some figures to be going on with.
This is the record for the system I referred to above: the single outpost is the only habitation and is in excess of 400,000Ls from the entry point with a tiny population.
Faction B is the system boss and we're promoting Faction A. Factions B and D are native.
My interventions (none of my colleagues go near the place) are marked in yellow.
26/07: Bought 2,054,634cr of metals to boost Faction B a little.
29/07: Took 5 missions for Faction A worth 1,266,861cr
01/08: Took 7 missions for Faction A worth 3,215,900cr
02/08: Took 8 missions for Faction A worth 1,672,846cr
16/08: Took 8 missions for Faction A worth 3,066,902cr.
Faction D went into a Famine state on 09/08.
Factions A and B are now pending War.
| 23/07 | 24/07 | 25/07 | 26/07 | 27/07 | 28/07 | 29/07 | 30/07 | 31/07 | 01/08 | 02/08 | 03/08 | 04/08 | 05/08 | 06/08 | 07/08 | 08/08 | 09/08 | 10/08 | 11/08 | 12/08 | 13/08 | 14/08 | 15/08 | 16/08 | 17/08 | 18/08 | 19/08 | |
| Faction A | 37.5 | 37.5 | 37.5 | 37.5 | 36.1 | 36.1 | 36.1 | 42.9 | 42.9 | 42.9 | 49.4 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 55.5 | 60.9 | 60.9 | 60.9 |
| Faction B | 32.1 | 32.1 | 32.1 | 32.1 | 34.7 | 34.7 | 34.7 | 31.0 | 31.0 | 31.0 | 27.5 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 24.2 | 21.3 | 21.3 | 21.3 |
| Faction C | 7.2 | 7.2 | 7.2 | 7.2 | 6.9 | 6.9 | 6.9 | 6.2 | 6.2 | 6.2 | 5.5 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.8 | 4.2 | 4.2 | 4.2 |
| Faction D | 23.2 | 23.2 | 23.2 | 23.2 | 22.3 | 22.3 | 22.3 | 19.9 | 19.9 | 19.9 | 17.6 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 15.5 | 13.6 | 13.6 | 13.6 |
Not sure this helps.
I deduce that at Fac D has no asset, and so influenced and 'bucket filled' directly by missions alone, and as you did no missions for D, then the drop in Famine wasn't due to inactivity, nor was it due to bucket filling or emptying over time, as Fac C would also have gone into Famine by now.
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Not necessarily: it depends on how long the bucket takes to fill - it could take several weeks or even months. Faction C (also one of our factions from a different system, but first in gets the benefits) was inserted into the system before 2.1, so its bucket is much newer than the native Faction D bucket.
You're right - only Faction B holds an asset.
Be interesting to see if it drops if you jump out and back in again or if it remains inflated.
I thought bucket size was population size related. First in gets the benefits. What benefits?
Fac C's bucket could be a reason being newer. But going back to my spreadsheet, and the 3rd group of figures. the top four lines of this group is are all native factions of that system. The bottom is mine from outside this system. So you could deduce that the native buckets should be much fuller. And yet the old owners of the system (top line) have gone into outbreak, and the native pirate faction have never been in famine or outbreak.
