A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Gemai]

No one is angry. I just rebuked your false claims and accusations as is fair.

Daylight posted his E-Mail answer somewhere in your internals. We had it forwarded by hidden supporters in your ranks. It gave some a good chuckle.

The answer came from CMDR Tronador I believe, from the Support Wing.

 

[CMDR Endincite]

Not sure what I just read. War has no cooldown by design, so it is correct that another war can go pending immediately. There is no "neutral" day either, from what I observed that applies only to pending civil states. But the next war should not go pending before the war ends. We know that updating is not istantaneous so you can see a state change one or two hours before/after actual system update, but one hour will not change your life.

Just a followup here:
A second conflict can certainly go pending while another is active (not pending), if for instance you pass a third faction in the course of the war. The pending will only show for that third faction, but the conflict can start with as little as one day of peace in between (thus two days of pending occured during the first active conflict).

I had this occur twice in a row in one system; three civil wars with only one day separating each. In each case the pending for the next only showed for the faction not in conflict yet. It was a busy time ;-)

 

[Gemai]

I had this occur twice in a row in one system; three civil wars with only one day separating each. In each case the pending for the next only showed for the faction not in conflict yet. It was a busy time ;-)

We have the same situation in Vesuvit with ToC. That is why I would ask FD to keep the current war + 1 day cooldown + new war after first none war day pending. The system works.
You can however not control the factions in the war system. If you pummel your enemy, you do it hard. Letting them pend during that for a new war makes planning - or freeing the faction - nigh impossible. So I would ask for the BGS crawler to add a check for the new pending target to not be in an active war or civil war state.

 

[SuBSynk]

No one is angry. I just rebuked your false claims and accusations as is fair.

Daylight posted his E-Mail answer somewhere in your internals. We had it forwarded by hidden supporters in your ranks. It gave some a good chuckle.

The answer came from CMDR Tronador I believe, from the Support Wing.

You have spies on our forums, viewing our "internals" yet you do not meta-game...lol

 

[Sentenza]

Um, we should be interested in your private feud because...?

 

[Gemai]

You have spies on our forums, viewing our "internals" yet you do not meta-game...lol

Try to at least deal with one minor BGS topic during your posts on a side Subsynk.

Our faction RP does not involve Meta-Information. Our ingame actions will not be based on them either. For example IF - big If - FD would godmode you to safety in BGS, we would try to find a RP explanation and just roll with it... despite feeling insulted on the meta level. Again FD I don't believe you pull favors!
If people that don't like your leadership or actions forward us info from your group they are just spies, even as far as roleplay, if it concerns warplans. Those warplans as conducted by you ingame will be dealt RP wise ingame. So if you got people which are unsatisfied with your inner dealings, it is your problem, not mine.

Um, we should be interested in your private feud because...?

Just ignore it. Only take the BGS bits I manage to strew in here and there, like traffic observations etc.
Subsynk just needs to vent and provoke conflict a little. Which would be in HIS forum if he hadn't banned the diplomatic account.
This would also not have escalated into this long texting if he hadn't decided to strew non BGS related accusations in.

 

[SuBSynk]

/snip
Subsynk just needs to vent and provoke conflict a little. Which would be in HIS forum if he hadn't banned the diplomatic account.
This would also not have escalated into this long texting if he hadn't decided to strew non BGS related accusations in.

Read back through the topic and you'll notice that it is you that brings up ToC on the thread and several times.

I only asked you to stop Pm'ing us and you wrote an essay...

 

[Gemai]

Read back through the topic and you'll notice that it is you that brings up ToC on the thread and several times.

I only asked you to stop Pm'ing us and you wrote an essay...

The hyperbole of one PM that was 200 in your eyes and which can't even be done with the account banned. So you clearly just wrote it to write it. That was pointless spam and provocation.

Before I mentioned your area of space as an example for BGS strategy. That is topic related. The long essay in my first answer was also useful as it rebuked your claim of a bugged BGS which you could not proof. So I argued against your BGS claims.

Anything else, including this needless posting to answer you is because you keep bringing up offtopic nonsense in this topic. And several of those with wrong information.

So I will do the thread and the people here the service of keeping this my last answer to you if you don't put forth BGS topics. A mod is free to clean up after us (all posts without BGS content and all content in combined posts non BGS related to reduce them).

 

[SaliVader]

I don't want to sound rude, but if you are going to keep arguing please do so through private messages.

 

[Gemai]

So, I tried selling large quantities of slaves at a black market in beta (oh, the things you have to do for science) and that definitely triggered a pending bust instead of the expected lockdown. Repeated that for three days to be sure, each time more pending bust.

Back to content:

During the Dangerous Games, the Diamond Mine busted all around. All was smuggling too. As this was 2.1 and Sentenza tested 2.2 with the same effect, it seems certain the old table is now mostly worthless.
Also killing ships - tested ourselves - doesn't hurt -5 anymore. Not even close. It takes tons of work of bounty hunting to hurt the faction you target into retreat. Not even system authority degrades that fast if you kill it anymore. So while murder might still be viable to hurt influence somewhat and cause lockdown, it is not a bread winner.

Even selling drugs - famed for bringing bust before - only offered civil unrest I think. So even there it seems kinda off the mark. Albeit for the bust vs unrest part I give no guarantee. The test margin was too small.

 

[Sentenza]

Back to content:

During the Dangerous Games, the Diamond Mine busted all around. All was smuggling too. As this was 2.1 and Sentenza tested 2.2 with the same effect, it seems certain the old table is now mostly worthless.
Also killing ships - tested ourselves - doesn't hurt -5 anymore. Not even close. It takes tons of work of bounty hunting to hurt the faction you target into retreat. Not even system authority degrades that fast if you kill it anymore. So while murder might still be viable to hurt influence somewhat and cause lockdown, it is not a bread winner.

Even selling drugs - famed for bringing bust before - only offered civil unrest I think. So even there it seems kinda off the mark. Albeit for the bust vs unrest part I give no guarantee. The test margin was too small.

Did another test, this time in 2.1: sold narcotics, personal weapons and combat stabilizers. Effect was civil unrest.

Now I wonder if the difference is due to changes in 2.2 or if faction type changes effect - first test was a dictatorship, second one a democracy. I redid the same in beta but tick did not update along with live, will recheck later.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Well, I wanted to check the match with this:

http://i.imgur.com/Ivuum68.jpg

Smuggling should have pushed lockdown. At this point we can safely assume this table is no longer valid. In fact it also states that smuggling increases influence, but the same test showed a decrease instead, as if it was piracy.

Doesn't tell you any value though does it. And we know Population is an determinate in things, so your clueless as to know how much needs to be done.

It's a great table that. It looks complicated and interesting. In reality its simple, tells you almost nothing and is quite dull.

 

[Sentenza]

Doesn't tell you any value though does it. And we know Population is an determinate in things, so your clueless as to know how much needs to be done.

It's a great table that. It looks complicated and interesting. In reality its simple, tells you almost nothing and is quite dull.

Don't need absolute values, effects are enough - if you do A, B happens. We then work out how much. The point is, even those indications are now obviously useless.

 

[jimbeau1571]

So yes it might not be a bug that you can trigger at day 3 for a new one, but then the fact you can't on day 1 past the victory during the ongoing war phase is.

Not a bug. FD confirmed as much months back when the 4th day first appeared.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Don't need absolute values, effects are enough - if you do A, B happens. We then work out how much. The point is, even those indications are now obviously useless.

Of course it needs values. The whole BGS is run on values. Your complaining it is having no effect. How do you know? Because Lockdown hasn't happened. How do you know it should have happened? You don't know how much you needed to do to cause it. So the reality is it was having an effect, but not enough to cause the result you wanted.

100000t of Narc to 10000 pop may give you 70% of what is needed for Lockdown
100000t of Narc to 100 Mill pop may give you 0.005% of what is needed for Lockdown.

So how much do you need for your Faction in question to go into Lockdown. Answer= you don't know, therefore you have no idea if you were making progress or not.

So you can't determine if its useless or not. You just have to trust it.

 

[Sentenza]

Of course it needs values. The whole BGS is run on values. Your complaining it is having no effect. How do you know? Because Lockdown hasn't happened. How do you know it should have happened? You don't know how much you needed to do to cause it. So the reality is it was having an effect, but not enough to cause the result you wanted.

100000t of Narc to 10000 pop may give you 70% of what is needed for Lockdown
100000t of Narc to 100 Mill pop may give you 0.005% of what is needed for Lockdown.

So how much do you need for your Faction in question to go into Lockdown. Answer= you don't know, therefore you have no idea if you were making progress or not.

So you can't determine if its useless or not. You just have to trust it.

I'm not complaining it has no effect - I am saying it has a different effect. In both tests I had instant pending bust and pending civil unrest. So obviously something happened that should not have happened according to the information.

 

[jimbeau1571]

In each case the pending for the next only showed for the faction not in conflict yet. It was a busy time ;-)

That would explain me seeing a faction in pending War, but no other faction in that system in a pending state. Thanks for clearing that weirdness for me.

 

[Gemai]

Factions operate with faction triggers not population triggers. If factions would use the local population to determine their GLOBAL states, any PMF and faction would need to get rid of <5M systems and that stat. It would be a strategic suicide. Therefore Sentenzas statement is correct. It is determined by actions to the factions not the population. That bucket is only used for influence changes.

Not a bug. FD confirmed as much months back when the 4th day first appeared.

If the cooldown day is not a bug - and you followed the war talk - then it is either a bug that one can not trigger a war ON the cooldown day and only on day 1 past it OR that you can trigger it before the cooldown day.

Because ultimately having ONE day inbetween war and none as a "sorry no new war" day is inconsistent.

 

[jimbeau1571]

1.Factions operate with faction triggers not population triggers. If factions would use the local population to determine their GLOBAL states, any PMF and faction would need to get rid of <5M systems and that stat. It would be a strategic suicide. Therefore Sentenzas statement is correct. It is determined by actions to the factions not the population. That bucket is only used for influence changes.



2.If the cooldown day is not a bug - and you followed the war talk - then it is either a bug that one can not trigger a war ON the cooldown day and only on day 1 past it OR that you can trigger it before the cooldown day.

Because ultimately having ONE day inbetween war and none as a "sorry no new war" day is inconsistent.

1.This is how I understand it. It's how it's makes sense to me, and so far everything I now do makes sense with respect to my understanding.
This is not to say this FD's understanding, or the correct understanding. ITS MINE AND MINE ALONE.

Faction states are determined by Player actions only. No NPC activity has any effect (trading, Bhing in RES's, Murder, CZ action etc etc) RL players only.
Faction influence is changed by positive and negative actions. These same actions not only affect Faction Influence but also Faction states. These States will determine an individual players actions, to complete the circle. None is seperate from the other. A negative action will trigger a negative state and reduce Influence, ultimately leading to a positive( or maybe a continued negative) action.

Again we go back to keeping it simple. Some buckets are for influence and some for state and some for this and some for that?
Nope. Not until FD say these are for this and that. And so far they have not said anything of that sort. They have spoke of buckets, and filling them. But not in terms of influence only of state only. And till then, my understanding is you need to fill them (or empty the negative effect ones), all of them, depending on the state. But you don't know what the value is. Also FD in the streams have spoke of Population modifiers. Again though, the never said these ones are and these ones are not. But they did say it effects the buckets.

2. Inconsistant it may be. But that is how it is. Whoever said this was consistant This is FD afterall.

 

[jimbeau1571]

I'm not complaining it has no effect - I am saying it has a different effect. In both tests I had instant pending bust and pending civil unrest. So obviously something happened that should not have happened according to the information.

Well that info and the other table are incorrect, missing states, incorrect % values etc. So what you have seen maybe correct now. And to me, makes sense that selling on a black market would undermine the true market. Killing security would cause a 'Police state', ie Lockdown.