A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Ryan Murdoc]

They need to match influence for a war or be above 70%. Easier to match influence. Better still have them match another minor faction with a base and grab that, then go after the Ant Hill Mob by getting other minor factions matched with them so they lose bases.

The threshold to trigger a conflict with a controlling MF of a System is actually 60% these days. Also you can take whatever other Stations of non-controlling NPC MF first and then go for the 60% threshold. Assuming you don't get into any quarrel beforehand with them anyways at lower %.

75% is the threshold for triggering an Expansion.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Also, if you look closely, even your mentioned positive completed missions can be negative to the destination MF. Check for the red exclamation mark.

I think this is just negative states now, not influence.

 

[Ryan Murdoc]

I think this is just negative states now, not influence.

Was referring to when you do certain missions, you both lower the destination MF % as well as increasing the risk for various detrimental States to happen (Lockdown, Civil Unrest mostly).

 

[Acceleratio]

Thanks alot for the great help

Guess I still have a lot to do these weeks

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Was referring to when you do certain missions, you both lower the destination MF % as well as increasing the risk for various detrimental States to happen (Lockdown, Civil Unrest mostly).

I know. It used to be a common thing, reputation + or - at the destination as well. I haven't seen destination influence change for a long time now.

 

[JawboneBuddha]

Hello all again from the wacky world of BGS questions.

Having read through a lot of this forum (still cant believe this doesn't have its own section, but I digress)

I know how LOCKDOWN and CIVIL UNREST are achieved -- fines, murder, bounties gained, and even particular passenger missions ... simple enough.

But how can you go about putting a system into let's say, FAMINE or OUTBREAK or how about ?

I believe that somewhere in the thread it was discussed that the various commodities are "grouped" into sections such as:

Chemicals
Food
Medicines
Waste
Weapons

to name just a few.

*************************

I have assembled the following chart from somewhere in the forums and sadly forget the original poster who I would love to give credit for this information...but is this a current list I have.

Big Quesion: Does just delivering the following any of the commodities which fall into one of the groups below, through LEGAL trade actually lead to the STATE indicated below?

*****************************

Chemicals? Boom

Machinery? Boom

Technology? Boom

Drugs? Bust

Food? Anti-Famine (even Tea!)

Medicine? Anti-Outbreak

Waste? Outbreak (even fertilizer)

Weapons? Civil Unrest (if open market) / Anti-Unrest (if security delivery)

*******************************


Is it plausible to deliver "x" amount of BIOWASTE and put a small system into OUTBREAK just through this just legal trade? How about getting BUST by delivering drugs legally?

Just curious what the realities of these are.

Working Assumption : the amount of tonnage (or is it transactions still?) needed if this trading works toward a STATE will largely depend on system population.

Thanks again for any advice, information regarding this.

 

[goemon]

Hello all again from the wacky world of BGS questions.

Having read through a lot of this forum (still cant believe this doesn't have its own section, but I digress)

I know how LOCKDOWN and CIVIL UNREST are achieved -- fines, murder, bounties gained, and even particular passenger missions ... simple enough.

But how can you go about putting a system into let's say, FAMINE or OUTBREAK or how about ?

I believe that somewhere in the thread it was discussed that the various commodities are "grouped" into sections such as:

Chemicals
Food
Medicines
Waste
Weapons

to name just a few.

*************************

I have assembled the following chart from somewhere in the forums and sadly forget the original poster who I would love to give credit for this information...but is this a current list I have.

Big Quesion: Does just delivering the following any of the commodities which fall into one of the groups below, through LEGAL trade actually lead to the STATE indicated below?

*****************************

Chemicals? Boom

Machinery? Boom

Technology? Boom

Drugs? Bust

Food? Anti-Famine (even Tea!)

Medicine? Anti-Outbreak

Waste? Outbreak (even fertilizer)

Weapons? Civil Unrest (if open market) / Anti-Unrest (if security delivery)

*******************************


Is it plausible to deliver "x" amount of BIOWASTE and put a small system into OUTBREAK just through this just legal trade? How about getting BUST by delivering drugs legally?

Just curious what the realities of these are.

Working Assumption : the amount of tonnage (or is it transactions still?) needed if this trading works toward a STATE will largely depend on system population.

Thanks again for any advice, information regarding this.

before getting deeper into it

- delivering any weapons can trigger civil unrest
- delivering any food can counter famine, and delivering any medicine can counter outbreak.

rest is unknown and untested.

i'd claim, it is nearby untestable.

let's look at "bio waste trade triggers outbreak".

you need a testing system without traffic (as missions can fill and empty state buckets).

as only famine and outbreak going active fully emptying the famine or outbreak state bucket, your system has to be in outbreak, and the outbreak needs to run its full duration (without traffic).

at which point you could start "testing".

firstly you have to wait till the system gets into outbreak itself, without any traffic (as there are strong indications that famine and outbreak are happening from itself, if a faction has no interaction).

after that second outbreak, you got the number of ticks it takes for a system to get into outbreak by itself.

now - after a few month - you can start testing biowaste trade.

as profit from biowaste trade will trigger a boom, and loss will trigger bust, in which case the outbreak bucket will get halfed, you need a source for your biowaste not generating profit or loss.

than you can compare, whether you have been able to trigger outbreak faster by trading biowaste....

btw. - the last scale test of hutton truckers trying to trigger an outbreak by trade, they ended in boom afaik.

anyone claiming that biowaste trade adds to the outbreak bucket, has good reasons to do so, while those claiming the opposite have good reasons and experiences, too - but the mechanic itself can't really be tested, differently to influence effects of bounty redeems for exampel.

 

[Starwolfe]

I know. It used to be a common thing, reputation + or - at the destination as well. I haven't seen destination influence change for a long time now.

Missions don't anymore that I can see, but its been a while since I did passengers.

I was seeing Transport Passenger missions affecting destination influence, but its been a while since I did those.

 

[FrogsFriend]

Missions don't anymore that I can see, but its been a while since I did passengers.

I was seeing Transport Passenger missions affecting destination influence, but its been a while since I did those.

Passenger transport missions affects both giver and receiver, usually with a +++. Either positive or negative effect on the receiver depending on the passenger type.

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

FAMINE and OUTBREAK. From the GalNet of the 'Weekly Health Report' which lists 10 MFs currently suffering each type of state, it says "Combat activity has no effect on influence while a [famine/outbreak] is active".

Does that differ depending whether or not the affected MF controls the system, or is it only specific to the MF in that state of famine/outbreak?

Three scenarios. Which of these best represent the truth (#2 and #3 would seem to be mutually exclusive):

1. MF in FAMINE, does not control system. Combat activity for that MF has no influence effect, however combat activity for other MFs is unaffected.

2. MF in FAMINE and does control the system, hence System State is also FAMINE. Combat activity for ANY MF has no influence, as Famine is a system-wide state.

3. MF in FAMINE and does control the system, hence System State is also FAMINE. Combat activity for that controlling MF (in Famine) has no influence, however combat activity for other MFs is unaffected.

 

[goemon]

FAMINE and OUTBREAK. From the GalNet of the 'Weekly Health Report' which lists 10 MFs currently suffering each type of state, it says "Combat activity has no effect on influence while a [famine/outbreak] is active".

Does that differ depending whether or not the affected MF controls the system, or is it only specific to the MF in that state of famine/outbreak?

Three scenarios. Which of these best represent the truth (#2 and #3 would seem to be mutually exclusive):

1. MF in FAMINE, does not control system. Combat activity for that MF has no influence effect, however combat activity for other MFs is unaffected.

2. MF in FAMINE and does control the system, hence System State is also FAMINE. Combat activity for ANY MF has no influence, as Famine is a system-wide state.

3. MF in FAMINE and does control the system, hence System State is also FAMINE. Combat activity for that controlling MF (in Famine) has no influence, however combat activity for other MFs is unaffected.

state effects are always per faction, so 1.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

state effects are always per faction, so 1.

And 3. It's certainly the case with other states.

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

And 3. It's certainly the case with other states.

Many thanks both. I was presuming that if #1 was true, then #3 might be as well. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that a system-wide State (for a controlling MF) doesn't then affect the influence changes that other MFs in the same system can experience through other actions.

 

[Walter2]

before getting deeper into it

- delivering any weapons can trigger civil unrest
- delivering any food can counter famine, and delivering any medicine can counter outbreak.

rest is unknown and untested.

i'd claim, it is nearby untestable.

let's look at "bio waste trade triggers outbreak".

you need a testing system without traffic (as missions can fill and empty state buckets).

as only famine and outbreak going active fully emptying the famine or outbreak state bucket, your system has to be in outbreak, and the outbreak needs to run its full duration (without traffic).

at which point you could start "testing".

firstly you have to wait till the system gets into outbreak itself, without any traffic (as there are strong indications that famine and outbreak are happening from itself, if a faction has no interaction).

after that second outbreak, you got the number of ticks it takes for a system to get into outbreak by itself.

now - after a few month - you can start testing biowaste trade.

as profit from biowaste trade will trigger a boom, and loss will trigger bust, in which case the outbreak bucket will get halfed, you need a source for your biowaste not generating profit or loss.

than you can compare, whether you have been able to trigger outbreak faster by trading biowaste....

btw. - the last scale test of hutton truckers trying to trigger an outbreak by trade, they ended in boom afaik.

anyone claiming that biowaste trade adds to the outbreak bucket, has good reasons to do so, while those claiming the opposite have good reasons and experiences, too - but the mechanic itself can't really be tested, differently to influence effects of bounty redeems for exampel.

We have several systems that never get visited - Influence levels are constant for weeks on end - yet the factions involved are subject to outbreaks and famines that eventually burn themselves out with no intervention.

What I find surprising is that any faction at any level can recieve a visitation with no apparent rationale: Boom one day, Famine the next. Bringing in supplies to alleviate the situation should only bring benefit to the station owner. Do we have to assume that relief for outbreak and famine also affects the non-owning sufferers?

 

[zzUrbanSpaceman]

I highly suspect that there is simply an element of randomness added to the BGS in order to stop factions remaining static. Faction states in unvisited systems would remain completely static without some element of change being introduced.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Do we have to assume that relief for outbreak and famine also affects the non-owning sufferers?

If it's selling food at the market, I think it should affect all factions. Missions for food should only be the specific faction.

 

[Walter2]

If it's selling food at the market, I think it should affect all factions. Missions for food should only be the specific faction.

If only they had the sense to ask for food when faced with a famine. I've had a faction this week telling me they've got a pending famine - 'We can't work if we can't eat' - but the faction isn't the station owner and it generated no missions to bring in food. There may be some once the famine gets under way, but that's not guaranteed and it's bolting the stable door after the horse has gone.

I've noticed that some of our isolated factions will not only fall iinto famine and outbreaks spontaneously, but they can also go into boom without provocation.

As 22tma says, it's probably a handful of randomly-generated stimuli that generate these state changes, just to keep things moving.

That, or the buckets leak.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

If only they had the sense to ask for food when faced with a famine. I've had a faction this week telling me they've got a pending famine - 'We can't work if we can't eat' - but the faction isn't the station owner and it generated no missions to bring in food. There may be some once the famine gets under way, but that's not guaranteed and it's bolting the stable door after the horse has gone.

I've noticed that some of our isolated factions will not only fall iinto famine and outbreaks spontaneously, but they can also go into boom without provocation.

As 22tma says, it's probably a handful of randomly-generated stimuli that generate these state changes, just to keep things moving.

That, or the buckets leak.

Famines and Outbreaks AFAIK always run on a 50% Default bucket, which auto-fills automatically over time if countered by Players.
The way I see it, this was done in line with Engineers, simply as to provide the appropriate amount of Outbreak/Famine Systems as Sources for specific Materials.

Before that change, Outbreak Systems were exceedingly rare. Hence, it would have been near-impossible to attain associated Materials for Engineers.

Similar to Lockdown- or Bust-buildups, Outbreaks or Famines announce themselves by :
- increasing amount of Food/Medicine Fetch Missions (caviat : heavily subject to Mission Board limitations, hence not a reliable indicator)
- presence of Medical Aid Workers (Outbreak) and Aid Workers (Famine) as Bulk Passengers in adjacent Systems (~15LY), IF the affected System has any L Pad Landing capability [PAX Missions only ever have Installations w/ L Pad as Destination]

I assume the Bulk Passengers in adjacent Systems start showing up when the bucket is filled to approx. 75%, which is still well ahead of any Pending States and gives several Days to react.
Notably, Pending States Outbreak and Famine AFAIK can be countered and negated before they go active if sufficiently countered by Player actions.

Assessing the adjacent local area Bulk Passengers for qualifying Systems (must have L Pad) has some limitations, but is still a very suitable Early Warning Indicator for Negative Faction States building up.
Most of the time, it's the only Early Warning Indicator that exists; I know of only Lockdown having a fairly reliable secondary indicator.

 

[smiths121]

Hi All,

Just coming back into some BGS work.
Following the lave radio podcasts, I am a little lost. When you win a conflict, it used to be the case that you flipped the least important station (if any owned) by the losing faction. I am getting the feeling from the podcast that this has now changed to the most important? Is that true?

Cheers
Simon

 

[Vingtetun]

Hi All,

Just coming back into some BGS work.
Following the lave radio podcasts, I am a little lost. When you win a conflict, it used to be the case that you flipped the least important station (if any owned) by the losing faction. I am getting the feeling from the podcast that this has now changed to the most important? Is that true?

Cheers
Simon

Always been true....