A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Johnny Cyclops]

Hi chaps,

Im working with some pals on a smuggling tool.

Its in the very early stages.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/372961-New-High-Profit-Smugglers-Tool

Can anyone tell me teh variosu effects of smuggling various commodities and doing smuggling missions?

I'd like to include as much informations in a snap shot / crib sheet.

Hi Ben, LTNS. I was recently directed to this useful list of all mission types and their impacts. Not sure this is entirely what you were after, but might help.

https://cdb.sotl.org.uk/missions

I still recall you shooting my ship out from under me way back in original premium beta - only one of two times I've had a PvP death, and I'm 99.9% in open play. Plus I used your keyboard layout as the basis for mine. Thank you, on both counts!

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Our fraction controls two systems A and B. If war in system A. That NO MISSIONS in system B will not affect influence percent in system B. In it we will fall until war terminates. For maintenance of percent it is necessary to force down the piracy ships in the hazres in any of these two systems and to hand over awards in system B. Did I get it right?

You are correct.

Though you don't have to be in a RES to bountyhunt. Earlier this week a few of us increased one of our systems while another was in war, just from pirates in the system as there were no RES. Take a mission or some engineer cargo as bait and get pirates to interdict you, or look for USS threat 1-4. You only need get one kill, then cash in the bounty and go back out for another. don't cash in superpower bounties unless they only help your faction.

One other thing that works, is to take deserter or pirate lord assassination missions that go to a system controlled by your faction. You are guaranteed to find a wanted ship then. the mission won't help, but it can pay well.

The state effects of any missions you complete still count. Often they are wort doing just for this. And the credits of course.

 

[Tilmitt]

Does anyone know what the real effects of civil unrest are?
If I have a minor faction I'm supporting, what are the reasons I would not want it to go into civil unrest?

 

[Sitoutumaton]

It probably affects the hidden values of system or faction. Wealth goes down, outfitting options at affected stations narrow down, trade good availability reduced. I think at least. I'll be gladly corrected on the matter if I spoke wrong.

 

[glojo]

Hi folks,
I am extremely concerned at how our main system is losing influence hand over fist.

We are at present involved in a war in a new system we have just moved into. Obviously, a war in any of our systems means a state of 'None' in all our other locations.

When we noticed our main location losing 4% per day, we all started doing +++ passenger missions in our main location. We are aware of the specific transport missions to avoid and this was complied with.

I have just this minute checked 'Bounties Handed in during the last 24hrs' and that is ZERO. There is not even a section on bounties. Yes we have through traffic that is not any of our group, so....

Is there a bug, are we being undermined by invisible players opting to operate in closed or solo play? Or is this 4% daily drop purely because of this war in a system far, far away?

The system where the war has just ended does not contain a minor faction that is resident in our main system.

Because of how this game is played, if we have human players deliberately undermining us, then providing they are clean, we are powerless to counter this for us, game spoiling tactic. If we were to attack these players in an attempt to save our main base, we then become wanted in our own system?? How daft is that?

Has anyone any ideas? Yes, I know about just taking out pirates and only shooting wanted folk who have bounties issued by us but 'Bounties issued by us??'

We have all experienced this horrible uncontrollable plummetting before and I would hate to think we are once more seeing this bug raising its ugly head.

 

[Vingtetun]

Hi folks,
I am extremely concerned at how our main system is losing influence hand over fist.

We are at present involved in a war in a new system we have just moved into. Obviously, a war in any of our systems means a state of 'None' in all our other locations.

When we noticed our main location losing 4% per day, we all started doing +++ passenger missions in our main location. We are aware of the specific transport missions to avoid and this was complied with.

I have just this minute checked 'Bounties Handed in during the last 24hrs' and that is ZERO. There is not even a section on bounties. Yes we have through traffic that is not any of our group, so....

Is there a bug, are we being undermined by invisible players opting to operate in closed or solo play? Or is this 4% daily drop purely because of this war in a system far, far away?

The system where the war has just ended does not contain a minor faction that is resident in our main system.

Because of how this game is played, if we have human players deliberately undermining us, then providing they are clean, we are powerless to counter this for us, game spoiling tactic. If we were to attack these players in an attempt to save our main base, we then become wanted in our own system?? How daft is that?

Has anyone any ideas? Yes, I know about just taking out pirates and only shooting wanted folk who have bounties issued by us but 'Bounties issued by us??'

We have all experienced this horrible uncontrollable plummetting before and I would hate to think we are once more seeing this bug raising its ugly head.

The plummet is normal from casual traffic. Any missions done for any other factions really hurt you when you are pegged as a result of war. 4 percent is ouch but standard drop and can only really be countered by bounties handed in at those specific systems to help you.

It is a nasty toxic mechanism and one where I have been petitioning Frontier for a change. We typically lose 20 percent points off influ3nce in each of our other systems each war.

 

[glojo]

Hi Vingtetun,
I much appreciate your very quick, and to a degree, very reassuring post. 4% per day with lots of passenger missions to try to counter this is daft and in my opinion, needs sorting

 

[goemon]

It probably affects the hidden values of system or faction. Wealth goes down, outfitting options at affected stations narrow down, trade good availability reduced. I think at least. I'll be gladly corrected on the matter if I spoke wrong.

pretty much this.

if your group don't like a lot of bounty hunting, a civil unrest makes it more effective, so less boubty hunting is needed.

if i have to choose between lockdown and civil unrest (which largely arise from the same sources), i pick civil unrest any time.

Does anyone know what the real effects of civil unrest are?
If I have a minor faction I'm supporting, what are the reasons I would not want it to go into civil unrest?

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

The plummet is normal from casual traffic. Any missions done for any other factions really hurt you when you are pegged as a result of war. 4 percent is ouch but standard drop and can only really be countered by bounties handed in at those specific systems to help you.

It is a nasty toxic mechanism and one where I have been petitioning Frontier for a change. We typically lose 20 percent points off influ3nce in each of our other systems each war.

I've considered its effect and think it's a throttle mechanism creating a 'cost', akin to the Inf reduction seen during Expansion states. Each time a MF goes to War in another system there's a cost 'back home' (or indeed in any/all systems that the MF is present). In some systems it's more pronounced than others. Without either mechanism there would be no real limit to how far an MF could expand or how many wars it could fight (to take system control). I think this is why I'm not personally aware of many MFs sitting in 50-100+ systems and controlling them. The cost is too high to achieve (or has been to date). I think it's an acceptable mechanism to stop proliferation of MF expansion/control. I'm a 'lone wolf' and have pushed my chosen MF (non-player controlled) into five additional systems, controlling three (plus the origin system). Fighting Wars gets harder with each new system, and recently lost a War in expanded system #6 (presumably to a CMDR backing the controlling MF). I could probably go further if it was more than just me acting alone, but I'm comfortable that being in six systems and controlling four is probably my limit for a single MF.

Akin to this, local to me is an Extraction system with a single Outpost and tiny population and very low traffic. The controlling MF has Expanded multiple times all around the neighbourhood, but then not advanced further in those expanded systems. I conclude that a sole CMDR is working the mining, trading, mission and maybe combat aspects of that first system and completely oblivious to the BGS, and with no other CMDR 'working for' the other MFs in that system it just keeps the INF above 75% almost constantly. I'm guessing it must be close to being into Investment stage activity now as just about all local systems have that MF expanded into it.

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

Does anyone know what the real effects of civil unrest are?
If I have a minor faction I'm supporting, what are the reasons I would not want it to go into civil unrest?

Collecting bounties has double the effect. - from a table FD posted to the forums a long time ago. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826&p=3382653#post3382653

I suspect that doesn't mean double the value, but rather than influence impact is doubled.

 

[goemon]

Hi Vingtetun,
I much appreciate your very quick, and to a degree, very reassuring post. 4% per day with lots of passenger missions to try to counter this is daft and in my opinion, needs sorting

passenger missions for your faction have no effect during war in any of your systens, so you have been wasting time and effort

general consensus is that all missions have no influence effect in all systems during war time, even if schlack reported FDEV claims otherwise one page back - FDEV thinks that combat missions should be effective, alas i haven't seen any sign of that.

clean test is outstanding after 2.4. goes live.

 

[goemon]

Collecting bounties has double the effect. - from a table FD posted to the forums a long time ago. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826&p=3382653#post3382653

I suspect that doesn't mean double the value, but rather than influence impact is doubled.

correct, but as the cap isn't raised, you'll just hit it with less effort - same as boom, which counterintuitively makes less trading more usefull.

of course, in a large population system those double-effects might be usefull.

 

[Johnny Cyclops]

My chosen MF is Federation aligned. With bounties, if I cash in Fed bounties at a system controlled by my MF does that benefit only go to the controlling MF or to all MFs with Fed alignment? Looking at the four systems the MF controls:

Home system - 5 MFs, only 1 Fed aligned (controlling MF), 4 independents
Expansion system #1 - 5 MFs, 3 Fed aligned (incl. controlling MF), 2 independents
Expansion system #2 - 5 MFs, 4 Fed aligned (incl. controlling MF), 1 independent
Expansion system #3 - 5 MFs, 3 Fed aligned (incl. controlling MF), 2 independents

I suspect I should only be cashing Fed bounties at the Home system, but have been cashing them alongside the controlling MF's bounties in each system. This might explain why some other MFs are seeing positive influence changes.

Second question - if we expand again, into a system where it is the only Fed aligned MF, where it does not controls the system, would it receive the benefit of cashing Fed bounties?

 

[Starwolfe]

My chosen MF is Federation aligned. With bounties, if I cash in Fed bounties at a system controlled by my MF does that benefit only go to the controlling MF or to all MFs with Fed alignment? Looking at the four systems the MF controls:

Home system - 5 MFs, only 1 Fed aligned (controlling MF), 4 independents
Expansion system #1 - 5 MFs, 3 Fed aligned (incl. controlling MF), 2 independents
Expansion system #2 - 5 MFs, 4 Fed aligned (incl. controlling MF), 1 independent
Expansion system #3 - 5 MFs, 3 Fed aligned (incl. controlling MF), 2 independents

I suspect I should only be cashing Fed bounties at the Home system, but have been cashing them alongside the controlling MF's bounties in each system. This might explain why some other MFs are seeing positive influence changes.

Second question - if we expand again, into a system where it is the only Fed aligned MF, where it does not controls the system, would it receive the benefit of cashing Fed bounties?

Superpower bounties as of a while ago are split between each related superpower-aligned minor faction, but split based upon their relative influence strength in the system for the day.

Say your faction is in charge with 50%, but you have two competing factions at 20% and 10% - you *should* get ~62% while the others get 25% and ~12% of the influence boost from that transaction value (in theory). If there are other unrelated minor factions (independant of other superpower relations) this will pull up your faction the most and the other Fed factions slightly, but do nothing for the others.

So using your bounties *could* help but its a game of averages, you'll need to hand in your MF's bounty at the same time to hold the lead in those cases as it becomes a drag as the other MFs catch up when the system balances out for the next day.

My recommendation is to never intend to use Fed bounties where there is more than 3 aligned factions in the system - the drag from more groups gaining ground will pull yours down.

 

[Vingtetun]

I've considered its effect and think it's a throttle mechanism creating a 'cost', akin to the Inf reduction seen during Expansion states. Each time a MF goes to War in another system there's a cost 'back home' (or indeed in any/all systems that the MF is present). In some systems it's more pronounced than others. Without either mechanism there would be no real limit to how far an MF could expand or how many wars it could fight (to take system control). I think this is why I'm not personally aware of many MFs sitting in 50-100+ systems and controlling them. The cost is too high to achieve (or has been to date). I think it's an acceptable mechanism to stop proliferation of MF expansion/control. I'm a 'lone wolf' and have pushed my chosen MF (non-player controlled) into five additional systems, controlling three (plus the origin system). Fighting Wars gets harder with each new system, and recently lost a War in expanded system #6 (presumably to a CMDR backing the controlling MF). I could probably go further if it was more than just me acting alone, but I'm comfortable that being in six systems and controlling four is probably my limit for a single MF.

Akin to this, local to me is an Extraction system with a single Outpost and tiny population and very low traffic. The controlling MF has Expanded multiple times all around the neighbourhood, but then not advanced further in those expanded systems. I conclude that a sole CMDR is working the mining, trading, mission and maybe combat aspects of that first system and completely oblivious to the BGS, and with no other CMDR 'working for' the other MFs in that system it just keeps the INF above 75% almost constantly. I'm guessing it must be close to being into Investment stage activity now as just about all local systems have that MF expanded into it.

There is a 'cost' to war of around 1 percent but beyond that and via the way influences are totted up in systems you will always lose unless you put in big effort.

Working with goemon I did some simulation spreadsheets that modelled how if youbare the largest influence holder in a system, if you do max work and everyone else does a lot (other factions) you will always plummet as it rewards everyone then tots up the gains and then rounds down to 100 percent. If you achieve little as a result of the nerf on non combat missions during war, this is magnified.

We submitted some alternative means of calculation tonfrontier using influence changes as a variance from the mean which was inherently more stable and rewarded the faction who put in the most effort even up to the cap. It was read and digested by the devs but no further word.

In the meantime.... We just prop up systems using bounties handed in 500k lumps in a round robin on 16 systems and use the inter war gaps to boost us up to the 70s to survive the war onslaught.

 

[Sentenza]

Hi Vingtetun,
I much appreciate your very quick, and to a degree, very reassuring post. 4% per day with lots of passenger missions to try to counter this is daft and in my opinion, needs sorting

With just a 4% per day loss in war you are, indeed, very lucky

 

[Vingtetun]

With just a 4% per day loss in war you are, indeed, very lucky

Indeed he is. We often see 7 to 11 percent drops
All I can say is keep up the pressure on frontier in the hopes they can dampen that one a little as it is quite toxic for player groups and can be massively destructive. We survived 4 back to back wars caused by systems dropping so far each time that they pushed us below others only by putting absolutely every other faction into war with each other somewhere and then bagging an election by deliberately engaging a democracy who was also alien to a system...... We managed to drop somewhere around 700 million in exploration data during that election to get us in the clear but it was a close thing

 

[Jane Turner]

Does anyone know what the real effects of civil unrest are?
If I have a minor faction I'm supporting, what are the reasons I would not want it to go into civil unrest?

It doubles the effectivenes of Bounty hunting, temporarily raises the security level of the system and spawns a lot of missions. Do no fear it!

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

With war, it's all about casual traffic in your systems. Our systems with no traffic don't drop at all during a war, but others with traffic can plummet.

 

[daman]

With war, it's all about casual traffic in your systems. Our systems with no traffic don't drop at all during a war, but others with traffic can plummet.

Interesting