Newcomer / Intro A question of mining....

[Mohenjo]

You're expecting pirates to play by the rules? Even their own rules?

Sure, they say 15 seconds, but...it rarely is. Sure, they say they'll leave you alone, but they usually don't.

That's just how pirates operate in this game. They are scum! It's part of what you must deal with, and there's been plenty of good advice in this thread. Learn and go

Meanwhile, pick a different ship for mining. The T7 is a terrible miner because it can't carry the needed stuff. You can only do class 1 lasers on that thing -- slower than slow -- and you can't do core mining.

I'd rather mine in a Keelback, at least it has bigger hardpoints and can actually be fitted out as an ok miner.

Anyway, good luck out there! Don't let those pirates getcha down!

Thing is, it's a game. If there's no way to deal with the pirates, there's no game. I can't fight them in a T7 with no weapons (because it's all mining). I can't run away (because I'm always mass locked and they're in faster combat ships). I can't drop the cargo (because they shoot me anyway). I can't survive their attacks for more than about 5 seconds (because they're using magic weapons that ignore what defenses I DO have). They might as well just not waste my time and just have me explode the second I enter a zone with cargo aboard, because there's nothing else I can do. It strikes me as a bad design for the GAME. Perhaps it's realistic in some sense... but it's not any fun, and that kind of defeats the purpose of a game.

The Keelback works... but only has 16T of cargo space. Quite a downgrade from the 224T the T7 has.

 

[Codger]

Thing is, it's a game. If there's no way to deal with the pirates, there's no game. I can't fight them in a T7 with no weapons (because it's all mining). I can't run away (because I'm always mass locked and they're in faster combat ships). I can't drop the cargo (because they shoot me anyway). I can't survive their attacks for more than about 5 seconds (because they're using magic weapons that ignore what defenses I DO have). They might as well just not waste my time and just have me explode the second I enter a zone with cargo aboard, because there's nothing else I can do. It strikes me as a bad design for the GAME. Perhaps it's realistic in some sense... but it's not any fun, and that kind of defeats the purpose of a game.

Well, you're free to feel that way and I understand. But from my point of view you're missing the point.

You were out there in a flimsy ship, with no experience under your belt. You had cargo you didn't know you had. You were surprised by what the pirates did. You got killed.

But all you need is a bit more experience.

Don't take cargo. Be sure you don't have any. Drop into the ring, and wait for the pirates to sniff around you and leave. Then do your mining, and don't log out or in, just finish up whenever and go sell the stuff. Be ready to avoid an interdiction on the way to sell (you know how to do that right?)

If you do those things, you will succeed.

This game has LOTs of stuff like this in it. It's all part of the learning experience.

Listen, I agree that pirate behavior is not that well designed, but it's been like that for years and once you get used to it, it does the job well enough. Maybe it'll get better in the future. Meanwhile, just have fun with what we have

 

[Tetra Trash]

Every time you enter a ring* either by dropping in from supercruise or logging into the game there a ship or ships will show up and check you out. Occasionally that is a miner or security ship usually it is pirates, if you have any cargo in your holds other than limpets when a pirate scans you they will try to get it off you.

So the first rule of mining club is never drop into a ring with cargo on board. If you have been mining successfully and get a disconnect then when you log back in run away as fast as possible and sell your cargo.
The second rule of mining club is when you drop into a ring wait for your visitors to leave and jump out before actually cutting rock.
The third rule of mining club is don’t mine at an RES as pirates drop in there all the time.
If you are mining in an armed combat build then you can ignore the first two rules.

Pirates can’t count very well they may give you 10 seconds but they ignore fractions so 9.9 seconds left is 9 and 0.9 seconds left is 0 and time to start shooting.

*If you are far enough away from Star systems that are inhabited this is supposed not to happen.

I've observed that you sometimes get a miner or system security span instead of a pirate as well, and if I've been booted from a mining session in a ring I've been able to relog until I get those instead of pirates the couple times I've tried that before. But I don't fly min/maxed mining ships; I've got enough shields to take some fire and high wake out if needed.

 

[Gwyther]

I'd just like to add that if you have 'report crimes against me' ticked in your right panel, then the system authorises will come to your aid. Most times they will chase off or kill the pirates.

They will be with you within a minute usually, so just fly fast and dodge around the asteroids to use them for cover until the cops show up.

 

[Para Handy]

Ya, I know they can do the mining. Any ship can do pretty well anything. However, mining is a very commercial kind of occupation, and so I would prefer to use a ship that's designed for commercial purposes... It's a matter of concept, I suppose.

Do you have psychiatric care on your medical insurance - 'cos that is really loopy - talk about making a rod for your own back!

 

[Para Handy]

I have access to the Cobra IV... but unfortunately, with a class 4 power plant, it can't produce enough power to run all the mining gear. Plus, it's got a fraction of the cargo space.

BTW - the quattro makes a good core miner, e.g. a no-engineering build with all the mining bells and whistles (58tonne of VOs is quite lucrative):

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

Engineer a bit you can upgrade PWA and shields if you want.

 

[DanielKT]

Thing is, it's a game. If there's no way to deal with the pirates, there's no game. I can't fight them in a T7 with no weapons (because it's all mining). I can't run away (because I'm always mass locked and they're in faster combat ships). I can't drop the cargo (because they shoot me anyway). I can't survive their attacks for more than about 5 seconds (because they're using magic weapons that ignore what defenses I DO have). They might as well just not waste my time and just have me explode the second I enter a zone with cargo aboard, because there's nothing else I can do. It strikes me as a bad design for the GAME. Perhaps it's realistic in some sense... but it's not any fun, and that kind of defeats the purpose of a game.

The Keelback works... but only has 16T of cargo space. Quite a downgrade from the 224T the T7 has.

I'd suggest the Krait MkII since it has a fighter bay you can use to defend your ship even if you have fit the rest of it for mining. It also still fits on a Medium landing pad.
Downside is it costs a lot more than that T7 probably did. Also only has 128t of cargo. Crude Mining Krait
Still less than a Python though....

 

[Mohenjo]

I actually already have a Krait... but I don't use if to go mining. I prefer to use dedicated ships. As I said, I don't think of the Krait as a commercial ship. I know it can do anything, of course.

In my mind, commercial ships are things like transports, or that are designed with work in mind (as opposed to combat or exploring or passenger accomodation). They're meant for hauling and hard labour. It just kind of frustrates me that one of the ships most strictly designed for that isn't able to something I feel it ought to.

Just my opinion, of course.

Maybe if they gave the Type 7 ONE medium weapon slot (perhaps the one on the top)? That would allow the use of seismic charges, and make it a LITTLE more capable of defending itself (mind you, I didn't even have time to change to combat mode before I was dead, once they started shooting...).

 

[GTB]

As said already, don't drop into a mining area with any cargo except for the limpets you use. And if you don't get scanned right away, wait until you do before you start mining and taking onboard any cargo. And keep in mind if you are mining different asteroid fields (rather than a planet ring), you're going to get scanned each time you jump to the next asteroid belt

 

[Mohenjo]

As said already, don't drop into a mining area with any cargo except for the limpets you use. And if you don't get scanned right away, wait until you do before you start mining and taking onboard any cargo

Yep, that's what I've always done.

Really, my concern isn't that there are always pirates. It's annoying and unrealistic, but whatever.
My concern is that there is no game mechanic that will allow me to survive an encounter where the pirates demand my cargo. If I run, I'm dead. If I surrender my cargo, I'm dead. If I try to fight, I'm dead. There has to be something for the player to DO... or there's no game.

In my mind, a Type 7 cargo ship shouldn't be able to fight (though, it should be rather more survivable than it is) or run effectively. However, if I surrender my cargo, the enemies shouldn't be attacking me. That's really the only thing I think they need to look at.

 

[Gwyther]

It is all a big learning curve. You will eventually figure out what ships you need to suit your playing style.

I understand what you mean about a ship fitting it's role. I mean, I personally wouldn't use an Orca or Beluga for mining or trading because I see them as passenger liners.

I used to have a T9 that I used for mining and exploration. It is a good all round ship, but it is restricted to large landing pads which is why I eventually sold it. It did get me to Colonia, Sag A then back home again.

Now, I only use 2 ships, an Alliance Challenger for combat and a Python for everything else.

Like I said, you will eventually find the right ships to suit your play style.

Edit...

Yes the pirate thing can be annoying but, as I and others have posted, there are plenty of ways to deal with them.

 

[d8veh]

Thing is, it's a game. If there's no way to deal with the pirates, there's no game. I can't fight them in a T7 with no weapons (because it's all mining). I can't run away (because I'm always mass locked and they're in faster combat ships). I can't drop the cargo (because they shoot me anyway). I can't survive their attacks for more than about 5 seconds (because they're using magic weapons that ignore what defenses I DO have). They might as well just not waste my time and just have me explode the second I enter a zone with cargo aboard, because there's nothing else I can do. It strikes me as a bad design for the GAME. Perhaps it's realistic in some sense... but it's not any fun, and that kind of defeats the purpose of a game.

The Keelback works... but only has 16T of cargo space. Quite a downgrade from the 224T the T7 has.

There's plenty you can do, but it sounds like you didn't do any of it. First of all, never trust a pirate. Whenever any ship scans you and you're not in a combat ship, you should already be putting 4 pips to engines and 2 to shields ready to run if necessary. If somebody starts shooting, boost and keep boosting. Use silent running and drop heatsinks so that they can't target you. That should buy enough time to target a nearby system and hiwake to safety. A properly outfitted mining T7 can boost to 340m/s, which is fast enough to escape from any NPC.

Preparation is important. You need to think ahead about what could happen. You know that whenever you carry anything, there's going to be a chance of a successful interdiction, so you need a ship that can escape. That means that you need a ship that's as fast as it's possible and it should carry at least one heatsink launcher, ideally two. Chaff can also help, but heatsinks are better. Your first boost should get enough distance for the heatsink to be effective.

The attack took you by surprise because you trusted the pirates. OK, I wouldn't blame you for that, but it sounds like after that you just ran around aimlessly, waiting to die unless I misunderstood something.

Get a Sidewinder with A-rated thrusters and heatsinks, go to a high RES and shoot a cop when there are loads of them around. Use the techniques above to practice getting away. You'll see how easy it is after a few attempts. Time is of the essence. You need to train that instant reaction and be ready.

If you want some real fun get a Sidewinder with enhanced performance thrusters, heatsinks and a 2A FSD interdictor, then go to any of the ganking hotspots, like Deciat and start interdicting all the gankers. The moment you drop-out after the interdiction, drop a heatsink, engage silent running and run away. Repeat until they cry or block you. Don't worry if they get you sometimes. The sidewinder is just you ammo. Get another one, go straight back out and get them again.

 

[aRJay]

Yep, that's what I've always done.

Really, my concern isn't that there are always pirates. It's annoying and unrealistic, but whatever.
My concern is that there is no game mechanic that will allow me to survive an encounter where the pirates demand my cargo. If I run, I'm dead. If I surrender my cargo, I'm dead. If I try to fight, I'm dead. There has to be something for the player to DO... or there's no game.

In my mind, a Type 7 cargo ship shouldn't be able to fight (though, it should be rather more survivable than it is) or run effectively. However, if I surrender my cargo, the enemies shouldn't be attacking me. That's really the only thing I think they need to look at.

The game mechanic that lets you survive is avoiding the encounter which can be done by not having anything of interest on board when scanned or beating the interdiction if accosted in supercruise.
The former is just a matter of preparation and patience the latter is practice and the right ship, a T7 is the right ship for evading interdiction by an NPC.

 

[davinator791]

I would say Type 7 it's more cargo ship than mining ship, but I use mine as a bus for rescuing people from burning stations.

 

[Ashnak]

Ok, so

• NPCs (aside from ATR) don't use magic weapons. Arbitrary pirates (should) scale to your combat ranking.
• if your ship is taken down within 5 seconds, you're running probably a pretty much stock build, with some added mining tools
• so, how about you post your build and loadout? As a comparison, here's what I came up with for a T-7 laser miner with no engineering:

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

- with engineering, I can come up with this

Coriolis EDCD Edition

A ship builder, outfitting and comparison tool for Elite Dangerous

s.orbis.zone

you could easily plug in a Guardian FSD booster or shield booster instead of the size 3 cargo rack.

In any case, though, since there are only 4 small hardpoints (and a size 4 distributor), the T-7 really isn't a good mining ship.

 

[Frankymole]

There is a reason it's called "Elite: Dangerous"...

In mining, as with all things, practice makes perfect.

 

[Para Handy]

There is a reason it's called "Elite: Dangerous"...
...

Not that nonsense again.

Since this is the Newcomer's forum, in case someone doesn't actually know - it is not called Dangerous because of the galaxy state but in the words of The Braben himself:

 

[Codger]

My concern is that there is no game mechanic that will allow me to survive an encounter where the pirates demand my cargo. If I run, I'm dead. If I surrender my cargo, I'm dead. If I try to fight, I'm dead. There has to be something for the player to DO... or there's no game.

Yeah, I hear you on this. But in my experience the pirates DO leave you alone if you drop the cargo fast enough. The delay is too short, though.

Anyway, I think you've got enough info to move forward

Good luck and don't get discouraged. The game opens up after a while.

 

[K Olley]

When you first enter a ring and get scanned by pirates they will sometimes circle for a while, fly away from the area and wait until you see a high wake then you know that they have left before mining.

 

[Codger]

By the way, I often put cargo in my hold on purpose, when I'm in a combat ship and out hunting pirates, because then I don't have to chase them.

I have lots of point defense, and they swarm around me trying to get my stuff. Saves me having to fly about

Here's an example from today