the best agility and least amount of stall turns in my Chieftan was when I maintained the blue zone, hence my idea to experiment with lighter internals in order to decrease inertia and increase agility.
A question to Elite FA-Off Combat pilots
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DeletedUser191218
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The chieftain is a pretty nimble ship. Just a pity about the cling film canopy. My combat ship of choice is the fdl, with g5 dirty drives. Very little can out-manoeuvre it. But it takes a bit of getting used to as it does handle a bit strange at first.
On your second point I think your sample size may have led you astray. They attack each other very frequently.
Deleted member 182079
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I considered permanent FA Off for a while as it seems appealing from an immersion perspective, but sticking to it where careful maneuvering is essential (such as stations) is just so hard. I always wondered if it's easier to apply small incremental inputs with a HOTAS. I'm playing with an XBOne pad and the sticks are just to sensitive and I keep overcompensating. Similarly when using fixed weapons and even with FA On it's a challenge.
Shame there are no sensitivity sliders in the controls for the analogue axises.
Shame there are no sensitivity sliders in the controls for the analogue axises.
Good point. I play with a PS4 controller on PC, its been a challenge, yet with practice its worked out. Optimising bindings is a challenge which I have no issue with, although I wish F-Dev would implement Zero yaw into roll with alternate flight controls.
Deleted member 182079
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Ah yes, having to switch between normal/alternate flight models is also quite the PITA, and I think that was the main point for me against applying an always-FA Off policy. Pedals are a must I'd say (or just play via KB+M, I should really give that a go even though on paper I don't think that helps with immersion).
To anyone who really wants to learn the finer points of pvp, you will never get clear answers on a forum where you can't gauge the experience level of the posters unless you are familiar with their history. Better to join a squadron that offers mentoring, or even simple pvp practice.
This is a classic example of a question to which there is no easy answer and only practice will give you the opportunity to try different techniques without costing you a rebuy or any pride.
This is a classic example of a question to which there is no easy answer and only practice will give you the opportunity to try different techniques without costing you a rebuy or any pride.
I don't have any issues what so ever with FA Off landings or the like, but would never consider using FA off all the time, because it's simply not universally advantageous. Even if my FA Off aim was on par with my FA On aim, FA On would still provide a massive benefit to negative vertical/lateral acceleration and would still lighten the combat workload enough that getting the most out of any vessel would require frequent toggling of the modes.
To anyone who really wants to learn the finer points of pvp, you will never get clear answers on a forum where you can't gauge the experience level of the posters unless you are familiar with their history. Better to join a squadron that offers mentoring, or even simple pvp practice.
This is a classic example of a question to which there is no easy answer and only practice will give you the opportunity to try different techniques without costing you a rebuy or any pride.
I need more practice! I dont pretend to understand all of the mechanics behind what is happening during a dogfight, but I use FAoff to turn as quickly as possible and face my opponent while guns are blazing. I use FAoff button as "hold" on the turns:
Boost, pitch, directional thrust, FAoff,FAon, boost again.
Those are not necessarily in sequence. That's why it takes practice to build the muscle memory. And here's another twist, the timing is different for each ship.
I was in a fight at the CG, in my vette, a FDL pilot interdicts me, he was really good at FAoff, I assume it was 100% off all the time. I did my normal routine and he was hard to get a bead on, but not impossible. My finger was clamped on the thrust down key, the mouse stuck on pitch up, plus a boost whenever the ENG capacitor permitted it, FAoff helped me whip the vette around like a big tonka toy. To an outside observer it probably looked like a couple of idiots orbiting eachother for 10 mins.
I am unable to answer from a PVP perspective, but do have a bit of FA-off experience and am in the middle of improving that.
Right now I'm doing two things FA-off. First all my landings are FA off now. Just for immersion, fun, kicks and to git gut. Secondly, I use a manoeuvre to slide out of the firing arc of my target by turning FA-off, throttle to 0 and thrust down.
Works like a charm and it might be the closest thing to getting at it's tail.
Thargoid hunters also use manoeuvre they call orbiting. It's a bit the same, but here they don't toggle FA back on.
Right now I'm doing two things FA-off. First all my landings are FA off now. Just for immersion, fun, kicks and to git gut. Secondly, I use a manoeuvre to slide out of the firing arc of my target by turning FA-off, throttle to 0 and thrust down.
Works like a charm and it might be the closest thing to getting at it's tail.
Thargoid hunters also use manoeuvre they call orbiting. It's a bit the same, but here they don't toggle FA back on.
Have a look at these two videos. I'm not really answering your question, but there are some good tips within for all starter/average combat pilots (myself included):
[video=youtube;XjYeCs5MA18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjYeCs5MA18[/video]
[video=youtube;hElXzArVdmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hElXzArVdmM[/video]
[video=youtube;XjYeCs5MA18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjYeCs5MA18[/video]
[video=youtube;hElXzArVdmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hElXzArVdmM[/video]
There are more thrusters than down. Always thrust in the direction of your opponents engine. It it's turning and the engine is facing your left side.. thrust left.
I think vindicator jones shows that in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl2taT0_AuY&t=1034s
Not fa-off though.
lol, you just beat me. I've linked the newer one where he compares using thrusters vs not using thrusters.
Noooooo! Are you certain?
If this is true I suck soooo much more than I thought. :-/
I had a really hard time last week keeping out of the guns of a succession of Elite NPC Condas in my Vulture (!!), and I consoled myself with the belief that they *had* to be using FA-off to pull those kind of turns... (I'm still climbing the learning curve; not much FA-off experience yet so not really using it in combat and I'm not even sure it's totally viable with a gamepad.)
NPCs cannot use FA off.
There is almost no maneuver that cannot be done in either mode.
FA On and Off each have advantages, but if you find something you cannot do with FA On that doesn't depend on exceeding the FA On speed limits in certain velocity vectors, you were probably not using your thrusters properly in the first place.
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I'm with morbad, FA off is highly overrated. Situationally useful, but not required to be in the top percentiles of dogfighters. Some ships get more benefit from it than others too, the FDL I fly almost full time FA off, the Chieftain almost never goes FA off. Ymmv, practice, practice and more practice.
NPCs can't handle people who can fly, FA off has nothing to do with it.
NPCs can't handle people who can fly, FA off has nothing to do with it.
Deleted member 182079
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I've successfully completed a couple or three FA Off landings (including with rotation correction off) and while they were satisfying to achieve, I found them too much hard work to do every time I land somewhere. But I don't know if I'm gimping myself by using a XBO controller (which, by itself is pretty good to be fair) as opposed to HOTAS or KB&M.
While I don't have access to a HOTAS (actually I tell a lie, a friend has one but it's pretty worn so doubt it'll yield any precise sense control) I never really tried KB&M. Might give it a go and see if it provides more nuanced control if anything. Although the idea of using a pointing device to simulate a stick is putting me off all the same.
Edit - just to clarify, as opposed to the OP I'm not that interested in PvP performance, more about the different maneuvers you can pull (such as flying horizontally across a planet surface while cockpit facing down etc.).
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I do this with FAon and directional thrusters. Its useful with planetary landing pads when I dont feel like flying ALL THE WAY AROUND the base to get the correct vector on the pad. Point nose down, thrust "up" and over the pad (reverse thrust to prevent ramming the base), then roll so i'm facing the correct direction, pitch nose up, float down nice and easy. Imagine this in a cutter
NPCs can't handle people who can fly, FA off has nothing to do with it.
A few cases in point...
[video=youtube;g22IXU57NYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g22IXU57NYo[/video]
[video=youtube;9gPWWnpf5Ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gPWWnpf5Ak[/video]
In the first video, I destroy a deadly NPC corvette for an elite rank standard assassination mission with a very general purpose courier, and never take a single hit.
In the second, an Engineered FDL and vultures (during a wing assassination) struggle to cope with my own corvette, flow aggressively.
NPCs have certainly improved over time, but there are still major gaps in their piloting. They won't use FA off, even when it's wise to, and they can be prompted into repetitive, disadvantageous, behaviors if one can approach them correctly.
I imagine it's mostly an issue of finding bindings appropreate to your controls and becoming proficient with them. Personally, I favor a decent HOTAS setup, but there are enough excellent pad and KBM users to convince me that the inherent advantages/disadvantages of most quality controls are relatively minor.
As for flying over planet surfaces, this is actually one of the areas that FA Off provides clear cut advantage. With good thruster acceleration to gravity ratio, you can certainly fly in any orientation over a planet with FA On, but if you are too far off horizontal, you have to constantly fight the thrusters...and if gravity is high or thrusters weak, the increased demand on them will melt the ship. FA Off removes all of that and you additionally gain the ability to peg the ship at full boost velocity almost continually with a minor gravity assist.
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ToT is irrelevant in the actual meta (PA & rails) and heavy duty skill boosted 4-0-2 reverski loadout does not require any skill and is useless in anything other than 1v1 in open space.
Here is what happens when skill face cheap reverski :
[video=youtube;9qIpaUxK-gc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qIpaUxK-gc[/video]