A simple fix [semi fix] to combat logging!

[Mohrgan]

Thanks Commander. Obviously happy to take your word on, though being a bit of a "don't know when I'm beaten" type myself, do you have any idea when they said that? I ask because now you're able to send\recall your ship to orbit from the surface. That must be using some simple form of AI (on player ship). If I'm in an instance with another player too, my sudden disappearance might seem odd to that GPU (which would be the one to takes over, making me an NPC). Depending on when FD said that of course, could the architecture have developed on a bit since then, is just a musing type of question.

I am not great at digging up quotes. It's out there. It was about a year ago when they said that because of the P2P structure of the game, having a players ship become under the control of FD is not possible. There is only a transaction server, taking and sending data, to the instances created on the player's computer. (I hope that was accurate enough, I am not a IT guy)

The AI you reference functions when the player's instance is active. You can't recall your ship when you are logged out of the game.

 

[Roybe]

I know it's permitted but in pvp scenario, you are still a combat logger and there is no way to tell us otherwise Robert. No honor in logging either way.

I do not care what people think, if you feel that gracefully (through the use of the menu) logging out is combat logging,so be it.

There is nothing the devs will do to 'fix' the issue of leaving the game 'gracefully'. They feel it is legitimate gameplay.

I have to take them at their word that they are shadow banning players for pulling the plug on their connection.

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But that's crazy. Loggin out isn't playing the game as intended. Being shot for whatever reason, whether it spoils your day or not, totally is. That might annoy some, but it's completely valid.
There are many ways to either avoid this kind of thing in open, or simply play solo if that's your thing.

If someone logs out...the PvP attacker wins. There is no problem...unless the PvP player desires to inflict pain on the victim. If so, then shoot faster! People have 15 seconds to leave!

 

[Bortas]

If someone logs out...the PvP attacker wins. There is no problem...

Not if the attacker is a pirate. If his target logs out, he loses.

unless the PvP player desires to inflict pain on the victim. If so, then shoot faster! People have 15 seconds to leave!

In the case of the pirate, the logout timer puts an incredible amount of pressure on him. Since he can't tell wether the other player started the 15s timer or not, he has to act very quickly. I think the 15s logout causes more deaths than it prevents because of this. This could be resolved, though, if there was a visual indication when someone starts the logout timers.

 

[shadragon]

The general reason the 15 second timer os there because FD recognizes that sometimes players just have to leave. Real life has to take priority over a game. If you can log out in space, you can change modes. That kind of puts a big hole in your sugggestion

If a player is having a baby and has to rush to the hospital, that's valid and statistically insignificant long term. Also, disconnects caused by bad ISP's or server issues. If a player has a continuous record of logging off during combat then that info can be (and according to Frontier in the past, is) logged. Once a threshold is reached, say I don't know, fifty times, then they can be recognized as serial abusers and punished.

The issue is what to do then? Shadow ban them? Remove money from their account? Send them to the galactic edge? The so called "weak" Frontier response you refer to is because of this question. What do you do with someone who routinely combat logs? I'm all ears and I'm sure Frontier would love to know what the community thinks should happen in these cases.

 

[Ben_BigBen]

Oh good, another combat logging post - haven't seen one of these in a while and was beginning to miss them.

 

[Mohrgan]

If a player is having a baby and has to rush to the hospital, that's valid and statistically insignificant long term. Also, disconnects caused by bad ISP's or server issues. If a player has a continuous record of logging off during combat then that info can be (and according to Frontier in the past, is) logged. Once a threshold is reached, say I don't know, fifty times, then they can be recognized as serial abusers and punished.

The issue is what to do then? Shadow ban them? Remove money from their account? Send them to the galactic edge? The so called "weak" Frontier response you refer to is because of this question. What do you do with someone who routinely combat logs? I'm all ears and I'm sure Frontier would love to know what the community thinks should happen in these cases.

You can't sit around and deliberate on what is a valid reason to leave the game. If a player needs to leave, they should be allowed to leave. They don;t need a Doctors note.

I'm a all good with FD finding and taking action against CL'ers. What I object to is affecting the game play of all players in an attempt to satisfy players who can't seem to get on without a kill.

 

[shadragon]

I'm a all good with FD finding and taking action against CL'ers. What I object to is affecting the game play of all players in an attempt to satisfy players who can't seem to get on without a kill.

Right, you want something done, but are not willing to accept any changes that affects players. Good luck with that.

 

[Marcns007]

I played in solo for the first year due to my broadband speed, when there was no one in the house I could play in open but as soon as my teenage children got home it was better to switch to solo. We have faster broadband now and I have decided to play in open to get to Elite from Deadly as it is the proper way to do it.
I think the mode switching is a good idea, but there should be a 15 sec time out otherwise the game will take over your life and I think my family think it may have already done that!
Possibly one thing you could do is that if the game can recognise that there was an abrupt log out within 15 seconds then when you return you have 1% hull left and have to limp to the space station in open.

 

[Mohrgan]

Right, you want something done, but are not willing to accept any changes that affects players. Good luck with that.

I could easily live with the status quo. I have no problems with how things work now. Now, FD said they are looking into it. That positively enough for me. The OP's suggestion, what we are discussing here, seeks to change the game for everyone, limiting where and when you can log off, for the sake of a few players that can't just accept it that some players Combat Log.

 

[bootsam]

The world is full of laws and regulations created due to a minority of people abusing things. Thus the majority suffers as they always legislate for the lowest common denominator. Its frustrating.

If you are in open then you must accept that pvp might happen. If you do not accept that, then move to group or solo. Combat logging to escape is just ridiculous. Take it on the chin.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Thanks Commander. Obviously happy to take your word on, though being a bit of a "don't know when I'm beaten" type myself, do you have any idea when they said that? I ask because now you're able to send\recall your ship to orbit from the surface. That must be using some simple form of AI (on player ship). If I'm in an instance with another player too, my sudden disappearance might seem odd to that GPU (which would be the one to take over, making me an NPC). Depending on when FD said that of course, could the architecture have developed on a bit since then? Is just a musing type of question.

Its pre-horizons, but nothing changed. The problem isnt that the ship doesnt have AI or anything, but that your own computer is calculating it. So when you exit, your ship goes poof. In a sense, you're only as real as your computer tells other computers you are.

 

[Nitek [pl]]

If a player is having a baby and has to rush to the hospital, that's valid and statistically insignificant long term. Also, disconnects caused by bad ISP's or server issues. If a player has a continuous record of logging off during combat then that info can be (and according to Frontier in the past, is) logged. Once a threshold is reached, say I don't know, fifty times, then they can be recognized as serial abusers and punished.

The issue is what to do then? Shadow ban them? Remove money from their account? Send them to the galactic edge? The so called "weak" Frontier response you refer to is because of this question. What do you do with someone who routinely combat logs? I'm all ears and I'm sure Frontier would love to know what the community thinks should happen in these cases.

the baby, cat, toilet, spilled milk argument again. Why it happens so often when a player starts loosing a fight?

 

[ever]

I got destroyed in an exploration ship, in a T7, T9, Corvette. I got blown up without claiming my salary. Total re-buy about 50mil plus the 50mil from the unclaimed salary. If I want to do the same to Commanders of an enemy Power, they combat log. Even more they see it as a valid tactic, if you read reddit forums, or deleted posts on their reddit forums.

It is fairly easy in the game to escape, it takes some practice to spot an ambush and avoid it. One of the problems is that is extremely easy to make credits now by comparison with last year. And a lot of hauler skilled pilots fly expensive ships and die and then speak against combat logging. Once you are pledged to a Power and combat log, once you have a bounty in a system and a Commander tries to claim the bounty, once you have cargo and Commanders want to pirate you and you combat log, YOU CHEAT!

There are plenty of multiplayer games with solutions to combat logging. FDev does not have to invent the wheel.

 

[HectorW]

.... FDev does not have to invent the wheel.

There is great many things we would like FD to implement.
Hundreds of topics and great ideas for last year or so.

Combat logging is just an inconvenience for PvP crowd, not so much for majority of players.
FD should fix it obviously, but together with lack of meaningful consequences for murder, abysmal/no real response from police in high sec systems etc.

and for the OP idea - not bad, impractical, unnecessary. Not everything must be PvP way.
Cmdr you attack loses great amount of credits and time when you kill him. He must accept bitter pill and go on.
PvPers must accept bitter pill sometimes also I guess.

edit:
also - ED is instanced, P2P game - this comes with heavy restrictions. Unless something changed recently - as long as gameplay is between our comps not on the server there is no real possibility to keep combat logger in game.
And about banning - losing players it's against FD interest. Disappointed PvPer will still play the game so it's lesser evil. We simply must accept the game for what it is or stop playing.

 

[MarcinKsi]

also - ED is instanced, P2P game - this comes with heavy restrictions. Unless something changed recently - as long as gameplay is between our comps not on the server there is no real possibility to keep combat logger in game.
And about banning - losing players it's against FD interest. Disappointed PvPer will still play the game so it's lesser evil. We simply must accept the game for what it is or stop playing.

what about replacing combat logged user ship with NPC one ? Will go to the nearest station as quick as possible with same mechanic as NPC ? Is this sounds like possible to implement ?

 

[Robert Maynard]

what about replacing combat logged user ship with NPC one ? Will go to the nearest station as quick as possible with same mechanic as NPC ? Is this sounds like possible to implement ?

There is no "infallible arbiter" (to use Sandro's description in his "Combat Logging": Update thread) to take over control of the ship of the player whose connection has been lost. This is not a Client/Server game where the Server is heavily involved in moment by moment gameplay - it's a P2P/Server-Lite game where the Server is used for transactions.

 

[Derath]

OP's suggestion was one of the first anyone made, I was a little surprised you could swap not in a station to begin with tbh.

But it won't happen this issue is 100% one they hope we'll stop talking about, eventually.

 

[Robert Maynard]

OP's suggestion was one of the first anyone made, I was a little surprised you could swap not in a station to begin with tbh.

But it won't happen this issue is 100% one they hope we'll stop talking about, eventually.

As pointed out in this thread - players can choose any game mode they wish on starting the game. To limit mode switching to stations would require every player to leave the game while docked in a station. This would disadvantage anyone who needs to leave the game (for whatever reason - it's a game, not a job) in a system where there is no station - and would more especially disadvantage explorers.

 

[Derath]

As pointed out in this thread - players can choose any game mode they wish on starting the game. To limit mode switching to stations would require every player to leave the game while docked in a station. This would disadvantage anyone who needs to leave the game (for whatever reason - it's a game, not a job) in a system where there is no station - and would more especially disadvantage explorers.

Naw the other modes would just be flagged to not be available when you log in/out when not at a station, come now at least assume if they implemented it that they'd do it properly lol, but it still isn't happening.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Naw the other modes would just be flagged to not be available when you log in/out when not at a station, come now at least assume if they implemented it that they'd do it properly lol, but it still isn't happening.

Given that were are all offered the ability to change modes at will (and have been since the game design was first published over three years ago) and that changing modes has been put forward by Sandro as a way for players to avoid "perceived griefing" - I would not expect mode switching to be limited so suit a subset of the player-base at the expense of player choice for all players.

Also, hi-res screenshots are not available in Open (due to the potential for exploit) - to limit explorers to one mode would probably mean that many would simply choose Solo and never be seen by other players.