A simple fix [semi fix] to combat logging!

[Nerwan]

Combat logging isn't a problem in this game, nor any game. Logging off at any moment is something that simply cannot be stopped, anyone can do it and it actually doesn't matter. You only think it matters because you think there is some kind of "honor" in the game, but there isn't, it's a video game and most people don't care what others in game think of them. Most people don't play video games to have a realistic experience, or play so that someone else gets their satisfaction. Most people who play video games do it to have fun, and getting blown up by other players is not fun for the most part in this game, it costs money and time and is very frustrating. If someone decides to turn off their game because they aren't having fun, that's their prerogative, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to change that.

Your groups list of combat loggers is a really hateful idea. You are basically making a list of people who don't play the game you want them to play it, and trying to shame them for how they enjoy their hobby.

Combat loggers are not affecting your real life in any way other than the anger you are feeling towards them. So think of it like this, If I combat log, I have control over your emotions, I am able to infuriate you simply by not wanting to play anymore, I can make your day worse because you allow yourself to get angry about something that is beyond your control. you need to realize this is something you can't change and therefore you need to be at peace with it. It's like being angry at the rain, there is nothing you can do, so just relax and don't let it get to you.

I dislike it also when someone attacks me when I'm in a defenseless ship, it's not fair and it takes away from the fun of the game, but there's a really simple solution to this, combat logging. I don't care about what anyone else in this game world thinks of me, it's not important to be an honorable player, I have an actual life that is far more important to me.

I think you really need to realize that almost no one cares what you think of them and you need to take down that list right now.

Well, combat logging is against frontiers rules of the game. Saying "I don't care about what anyone else in this game world thinks of me" is a lot like saying to your fellow monopoly players "I don't care what you guys think, I don't want to pay your rent on mayfair, let's just carry on playing". Sure you can do it but no one likes a cheater and the people you're playing against aren't going to be happy. In monopoly your friends would simply refuse to play with you any more however in Elite that isn't possible so we've seen the creation of lists like the reddit combat loggers etc. That being said I get that you are very much coming from the traders point of view, and I understand that there are significant problems when traders in T7s can be pulled over by players in rail-de-lance's etc and really have no chance of escape and there's no form of RP piracy etc. However, I'm not sure the OP was talking about combat logging in that context (although he may have been). Combat logging is far more egregious when done by a fellow PVPer. I've had people combat log on me even when they've started the fight! I was quite prepared to fight them to the death (and have been killed by pleanty of commanders while I was new to PVP), so combat logging just because the person you interdicted turns out to be better than you is a pretty low form of cheating.

 

[MarcinKsi]

There is no "infallible arbiter" (to use Sandro's description in his "Combat Logging": Update thread) to take over control of the ship of the player whose connection has been lost. This is not a Client/Server game where the Server is heavily involved in moment by moment gameplay - it's a P2P/Server-Lite game where the Server is used for transactions.

what if the duplicated NPC wouldn't be connected with the player who logged out ? For the pirates who are trying to steal some cargo after long, long chase it is just epic fun killer when chased ship is poping out from the space. If we will get the NPC copy, then it will be more like "OK I won. Now let's get that rares/bounty "

It will at least cover the game breaking issue. And will get nice data for a combat logging commanders monitoring stats.

 

[Robert Maynard]

what if the duplicated NPC wouldn't be connected with the player who logged out ? For the pirates who are trying to steal some cargo after long, long chase it is just epic fun killer when chased ship is poping out from the space. If we will get the NPC copy, then it will be more like "OK I won. Now let's get that rares/bounty "

It will at least cover the game breaking issue. And will get nice data for a combat logging commanders monitoring stats.

.... because there would be no guarantee that there would be an unbiased game client in the instance to take over control of the departed player's ship.

 

[Derath]

Given that were are all offered the ability to change modes at will (and have been since the game design was first published over three years ago) and that changing modes has been put forward by Sandro as a way for players to avoid "perceived griefing" - I would not expect mode switching to be limited so suit a subset of the player-base at the expense of player choice for all players.

Also, hi-res screenshots are not available in Open (due to the potential for exploit) - to limit explorers to one mode would probably mean that many would simply choose Solo and never be seen by other players.

Yes yes we all know it was written in the great gospel of the only game design that is never allowed to be changed if they actually did something about it you probably wouldn't have to read so many threads about it though, everyone spitballs ideas because its consistently ignored, and any change they make suits a subset of the playerbase to the expense of others.

I still don't understand why you can't take Hi-Res in open, its never made sense to me

 

[MarcinKsi]

.... because there would be no guarantee that there would be an unbiased game client in the instance to take over control of the departed player's ship.

that's my point, no need for one as it will be just my local npc, same like other npc's not related with the player at all, will not affect the logged out player in any way when he will log back.

 

[Derath]

that's my point, no need for one as it will be just my local npc, same like other npc's not related with the player at all, will not affect the logged out player in any way when he will log back.

Reasonable suggestion, probably liable to be exploited but a clone/dummy system would actually be pretty fun in the long run.

I certainly know if i was pirating a player, and he combat logged and was replaced by an identical ship/cargo i'd be ok with that - i'd still get my cargo and some entertainment and thats all I really want anyway player or not

 

[Dave1235]

I can't post videos here [ that's why what I am writing is moderated now] so I will try to set up a scene here.
There are commanders in open who play only to win. They attack other players, get into fights and like to blow up commanders. They prey mostly on non pvp players because against pvp'ers most of the time they LOOSE.
What does a player like that do when he finds an equal or better match? HE LOGS OFF! I win - stay in open. I loose - I log off. Molest people near station - blow up people - GREAT! When a force comes in and almost destroys the culprit... LOG OFF!
Our group has a couple page document of combat loggers and the list is growing every day. There are numerous videos and unfortunately FD's response is below weak. I see known combat loggers every day. The only thing we can do
is to shun them by texting them in game. They laugh at reporting them to FD.

So if FD is unwilling to punish them directly let's have an idea here.

What if mode switching would be possible ONLY when in station/landed ? You want to switch mode - you need to be landed/srv whatever.
If you combat log in space - you have to wait before your enemy get's bored waiting for you or log in and get what you deserve.
Maybe it will not fix cheating entirely but would at least pose a nuisance for those who are willing to put risk on other commanders but never take the risk alone.

I know that people are combat logging on npc's to never die but this is another story which I never expect to be fixed.

So you would be happy inconvenience all the people out there who want to switch between solo and groups to stop some pvpers cling in open.

Ps good luck getting into the same instance again and have fun sitting there waiting as the cl, er laughs his      off as he walks to the pub or puts a dvd on for the evening

Eta
All these problems with open that need other modes changed to fix. Just remove open. Job done I bet there wouldn't be any complaints about cl,ing in pve open.making open pve only would also stop cl, ing.

 

[Flash_Baggins]

I can't post videos here [ that's why what I am writing is moderated now] so I will try to set up a scene here.
There are commanders in open who play only to win. They attack other players, get into fights and like to blow up commanders. They prey mostly on non pvp players because against pvp'ers most of the time they LOOSE.
What does a player like that do when he finds an equal or better match? HE LOGS OFF! I win - stay in open. I loose - I log off. Molest people near station - blow up people - GREAT! When a force comes in and almost destroys the culprit... LOG OFF!
Our group has a couple page document of combat loggers and the list is growing every day. There are numerous videos and unfortunately FD's response is below weak. I see known combat loggers every day. The only thing we can do
is to shun them by texting them in game. They laugh at reporting them to FD.

So if FD is unwilling to punish them directly let's have an idea here.

What if mode switching would be possible ONLY when in station/landed ? You want to switch mode - you need to be landed/srv whatever.
If you combat log in space - you have to wait before your enemy get's bored waiting for you or log in and get what you deserve.
Maybe it will not fix cheating entirely but would at least pose a nuisance for those who are willing to put risk on other commanders but never take the risk alone.

I know that people are combat logging on npc's to never die but this is another story which I never expect to be fixed.

What about CMDR's in deep space? I dont want to find a planet that I have to make an approach and land on

(Havent read any of the pages so If this has been answered can someone tell me )

 

[Zazzilas Arden]

No, FD has said that there is no all powerful server with which to do this. They have stated that keeping a ship in play can not be done with the current architecture.

So if we are soon able to enter fighters and hand over our ship to NPC control, please tell me why our ship could not also be handed to NPC control on an ungraceful exit? Eh?

 

[Siobhan]

The introduction of the 15-second delay on exit is because of combat and applies whether the combat is against players or NPCs - otherwise there is no delay on exiting at all.

tbh, just remove the 15 second timer altogether.

I used to agree that CL was wrong, but the sheer entitlement of the PvP mob on this is getting ridiculous. Just let people log out as they want, and let the cry-babies go back to eve online or whatever.

 

[snadge]

So if FD is unwilling to punish them directly let's have an idea here.

Your idea has merit, I have tried pirating in open with a DBS of all things, hoping that players will not feel as threatened, I have had more people CLing than escaping and no goodies yet, clippers retaliating and I go for their PP,when they realise that my DBS is far more dangerous than they first thought, poof, wether it takes 0 seconds or 15, it doesn't matter.

 

[Siobhan]

I was just private messaged by a commander that "clans keeping lists of combat loggers" is illegal and I will be reported. Every clan has those lists commanders and no one can tell you what are you keeping on your pc. Ridiculous :]

I don't know if it's actually illegal anywhere, but if you are keeping lists, then you're subject to data protection laws, and if ANY identifiable information is leaked, then yes, you would have legal troubles.

 

[Derath]

tbh, just remove the 15 second timer altogether.

I used to agree that CL was wrong, but the sheer entitlement of the PvP mob on this is getting ridiculous. Just let people log out as they want, and let the cry-babies go back to eve online or whatever.

This post is identical but on the opposite side you know?

They think you don't matter and shouldn't be able to log out mid combat, you think they don't matter and should go DIAF, preferably in eve ,it really isn't the apex of arguments is it.

 

[Siobhan]

This post is identical but on the opposite side you know?

They think you don't matter and shouldn't be able to log out mid combat, you think they don't matter and should go DIAF, preferably in eve ,it really isn't the apex of arguments is it.

Apart from the fact that I've never CL'd, (though I do have a dodgy net connection and power so it's not inconceivable that I will get disconnected in combat) then yes, absolutely. The hotter the better. I really don't care about them. This is MY game that I'm playing, and there is no way anyone else should be able to tell me how to play it or not. These people claim CLing is killing the game, well I say it's their constant whining about it and aggression, their KOS lists and meta-gaming that's really killing the game. And not just this game, but all games that allow such shenanigans to continue unfettered.

Get a life!

 

[Derath]

Most of it is players taking matters into their own hands because FD don't do anything about it i'm not sure they should burn for that.

 

[Siobhan]

Most of it is players taking matters into their own hands because FD don't do anything about it i'm not sure they should burn for that.

Maybe, maybe not... as you said, they don't matter.

 

[MickyG1982]

Remember their name, add to Iggy list, never get matched in the same instance as them...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Interesting idea Nitek. I still prefer my idea if combat log locks you out of open for a certain amount of time, each time the amount gets progressively longer (and ramps up quickly - ie: doesn't punish those for long who just have an unfortunately disconnect, but if it happens 2-3 times, you get locked out for a loooong time). There would be a decay, but it would also be longer the more times it happened as well.

I'm in full agreement with the PvPers who face combat loggers every day, that those people shouldn't be playing in Open if they can't take the heat. Of course, i don't have any sympathy for those who get combat logged against when they are flying a super ship and preying in sidewinders... that's just lame. But it happens and nothing is likely to stop it much... although 2.1 looks like its bringing some interesting changes at least.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes yes we all know it was written in the great gospel of the only game design that is never allowed to be changed if they actually did something about it you probably wouldn't have to read so many threads about it though, everyone spitballs ideas because its consistently ignored, and any change they make suits a subset of the playerbase to the expense of others.

I still don't understand why you can't take Hi-Res in open, its never made sense to me

Some bits of the game design are fundamental - such as all players experiencing and affecting the single shared galaxy state regardless of game mode (or game platform); three game modes to allow every player to choose how many players they play with and the ability for players to select which game mode they wish to play in on a session-by-session basis.

Frontier probably have a good idea of how their players play the game and can, I would expect, roughly categorise them in terms of their position on the PvP<>PVE spectrum. With that in mind, Frontier are likely to tailor any changes to the game design with their player-base in mind (not just the loudest voices on various fora).

Hi-res screenshots cannot be taken in Open due to the exploit relating to write speed / errors to the chosen destination device for such screenshots.

that's my point, no need for one as it will be just my local npc, same like other npc's not related with the player at all, will not affect the logged out player in any way when he will log back.

If a duplicate NPC was created and it were to be destroyed, what would happen to the player whose ship had been cloned due to disconnection? If combat bonds or bounties were to be collected on the destruction of the cloned NPC then it would be exploitable. If the player were to log in to find their ship destroyed, it would also be exploitable.

 

[pippo]

Kuddos for trying, and the idea.

But doesn't matter how much you turn this Logofsky malarkey around, I for example would just have to pull the wifi dongle on the front panel of my computer.
It's been discuss over and over again, if you want to get rid of combat loggers, you need to get rid off the P2P structure. I rather keep the structure (along with the few ungraceful players) and keep this game free of subscription.

Also, what happens when you actually lose your connection in combat?