A simple question about products from other creators.

[Vernia]

I wondering if i starting to use some product items created by others creators all along my park then a day this creator decide to remove or change it. Do I will lose all items used in my park ?
( And seeing some holes (missing pieces) in all my park )

Because i saw some nice basic stuff like, little poles, rings, fences, etc...

 

[kow75]

if a creator deletes there item off the work shop or removes there steam account. the item will be removed from your game the next time you lunch the game online. If the creator updates there item, it will automatically update the item in your park. Good rule of thumb is to only use items from reputable creators. these are well known to keep there items in there shops, keep them updated or post before removing them. Why a creator removes things, well for some its a matter of immaturity. "rage quit" but for the more professional creators. the item may be so bugged it isn't worth attempting to continue support. If you see WIP on an item name. Work In progress, it will change a lot or be completely deleted. Use WIP items at your own risk.

 

[Vampiro]

If you want to you can always move/copy the DLC items from the steam folder to your local gamefiles folder and unsubscribe the item from Steam.
It might not be too "nice" for the creator since he/she will lose a subscriber, but at least this is a way to ensure the item doesn't get updated and won't be deleted.

 

[wowman]

If you want to you can always move/copy the DLC items from the steam folder to your local gamefiles folder and unsubscribe the item from Steam.
It might not be too "nice" for the creator since he/she will lose a subscriber, but at least this is a way to ensure the item doesn't get updated and won't be deleted.

you can do this without them losing a sub. Just re-save the blueprint under a new name on your local files. I did this when we were in Beta and were going to lose any blueprints. I saved them with my own name locally and then didn't lose them.

 

[ArtiX]

Ok i feel like i need to intervene here. As a longstanding content creator i take great offense in what is being said in here.

Firstly, @Vampiro would you be willing to redact your statement please? I think this 'tip' is VERY harmful to us TMTKers.

Secondly, it is the right of any content creator to pull their content, this should not be scrutinized upon, even if annoying,
but you seem to misinterpret how these assets were created at no cost for you, and you are granted the priviledge of being able to use these FREE assets.

I had a recent discussion about pulling content and i gotta ask, how do YOU want to determine who is a trusted creator and who isn't.
I did threaten to pull content very recently, but pulling through with it, that's still a different matter and also has little to do with Ragequitting or childishness.

One way to give a more secure environment for all sides is if Frontier made a content-creator DLC, this is general practice with Cities:Skylines (btw)
Then there would be a contractual obligation to publish and procure these assets (and a certain financial motivation).

Another way would be, if YOU, the gamers who USE our assets, would spend a little time in letting the creators know how much you like these in your game,
how you use them in your builds and such. The main reason for the content creation slowing down to a dead-stop is simply down to lack of engagement.
This demotivates EVERY creator, trustworthy or not. Think of it this way, we spend up to a few hundred hours on specific assets, is it too much to ask you to spend 2 minutes
of your attention towards these creators or their assets?

Also, to add, there is NO way to determine the real quality of any asset. You can't see how well or bad the LODs have been optimized (having a big impact on performance)
So, please, before you jump to conclusions, you should give each content creator an equal chance to check out their reations.

And on a legal note, copying assets to your local drive, because of fear of a creator pulling their content is a breach of TOS conduct.
If i decided to pull my content, and if in that case i would see people who publicly showcase these items AFTER they were pulled, i would think of the notion of a DMCA.
This might sound strange to you, but by withdrawing the consent, any creator has the right for the content to cease to exist. This is, thus not explicitly, noted in the ToS.

reason for edit: typos, grammar corrections, additions

 

[Joël]

And on a legal note, copying assets to your local drive, because of fear of a creator pulling their content is a breach of TOS conduct.
If i decided to pull my content, and if in that case i would see people who publicly showcase these items AFTER they were pulled, i would think of the notion of a DMCA.
This might sound strange to you, but by withdrawing the consent, any creator has the right for the content to cease to exist. This is, thus not explicitly, noted in the ToS.

Hello,

Can you point me to the clause in the Planet Coaster End User Licence Agreement that states that copying assets (in this case Contributions to the Steam Workshop) would be a breach of the TOS?

I have read the Planet Coaster EULA / TOS, and have found the following clause:

7.1.5 You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Contribution and/or Arrangement from the applicable Game or Online Features. If you do so, Frontier will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Contribution and/or Arrangement, except that (a) Frontier may continue to exercise these rights for any Contribution and/or Arrangement that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any company or individual who has already obtained access to a copy of the Contribution and/or Arrangement.

According to the EULA / TOS the rights of an individual are not affected when another individual deletes a Contribution to the Steam Workshop.

I have not found anything in the EULA / TOS that implies that a user is in breach of said EULA / TOS in case that they copy a Contribution to their local storage device or in case they show a Contribution publicly.

The Steam Subscriber Agreement specifies a similar clause.

Obviously it would be appropriate and decent of users if they do not re-distribute Contributions without consent of the creator and/or publicly show Contributions without credit of the creator.

I do not wish to dispute any of the topics raised in this thread but merely wanted to shed some light on the legal aspect of Contributions/creations/items made with the Planet Coaster Thememaker’s Toolkit.

 

[Vampiro]

I also feel a need to reply, keep in mind this is just a personal opinion...

First of all what you state here is a little weird to me :

And on a legal note, copying assets to your local drive, because of fear of a creator pulling their content is a breach of TOS conduct.

As soon as you subscribe to a workshop item the object IS downloaded to your local drive, so that can't breach any conduct (It would mean subscribing is breaching the TOS). All what i suggest to do is copy that item over from one folder to another. Which is not breaching any TOS conduct. No TOS is forcing me to place a file in a certain folder and thereafter forbid me to touch or move that file on my own private computer.

Even if you remove the object from the workshop, people who already downloaded the item are free to keep using it as they desire, they are even free to re-distribute. You give them those rights as soon as you upload your item. And in moral terms i can agree it's not a nice thing to do maybe, not nice doesn't mean its not allowed.
And to be fair, the whole point wasn't even distributing the files, it was all about making sure you can keep using a certain asset in the same way it was when you downloaded it. I don't think there is anything wrong with that morally.

• Workshop Contributions are Subscriptions, and therefore you agree that any Subscriber receiving distribution of your Workshop Contribution will have the same rights to use your Workshop Contribution (and will be subject to the same restrictions) as are set out in this Agreement for any other Subscriptions.
• You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.

When i create an item i do so because i like the item, i think its useful in the game and i upload it because others might think the same and they might use my item if they like. I don't require any applause or thank you because i simply do it because i LIKE doing it, the love for the game is my motivation and thats all i need. If you do it for any other reason i doubt the steam workshop is the proper place to upload your work. If people show appreciation, its very nice, but the workshop is not an arthouse. I think if you want some real compensation for the time and effort you put in, fair enough, but you should become a professional and get paid for it.

 

[kow75]

way off topic now, time for a chill pill. >.> Daddy Poe stopped because his real job takes up all his time now. Not because of lack of gratitude. When I upload I do it cause I like to share my work and i honestly dont care what they do with it. reading the tos it states you release all your rights to the object when you upload it to the toolkit. I new that before uploading stuffs and still choose to continue to do so.

 

[ArtiX]

I also feel a need to reply, keep in mind this is just a personal opinion...

First of all what you state here is a little weird to me :


As soon as you subscribe to a workshop item the object IS downloaded to your local drive, so that can't breach any conduct (It would mean subscribing is breaching the TOS). All what i suggest to do is copy that item over from one folder to another. Which is not breaching any TOS conduct. No TOS is forcing me to place a file in a certain folder and thereafter forbid me to touch or move that file on my own private computer.

Even if you remove the object from the workshop, people who already downloaded the item are free to keep using it as they desire, they are even free to re-distribute. You give them those rights as soon as you upload your item. And in moral terms i can agree it's not a nice thing to do maybe, not nice doesn't mean its not allowed as long as the creator feels it's ok to do so.
And to be fair, the whole point wasn't even distributing the files, it was all about making sure you can keep using a certain asset in the same way it was when you downloaded it. I don't think there is anything wrong with that morally.



When i create an item i do so because i like the item, i think its useful in the game and i upload it because others might think the same and they might use my item if they like. I don't require any applause or thank you because i simply do it because i LIKE doing it, the love for the game is my motivation and thats all i need. If you do it for any other reason i doubt the steam workshop is the proper place to upload your work. If people show appreciation, its very nice, but the workshop is not an arthouse. I think if you want some real compensation for the time and effort you put in, fair enough, but you should become a professional and get paid for it.

Let me explain what i mean by that (and this is purely theoretical, so don't interpret this in any other way than for sake of information). Before i do, @DaddyPoe, no you do not waive your rights permanently. There are two clauses, one concerning Blueprints and one for custom content. The Blueprint clause is pretty straightforward and by uploading a blueprint you do waive the right (and that's totally acceptable as a blueprint is usually consisting of FDev -created content) The other clause that Vampiro quoted is not as straightforward as it sounds. As this falls under the copyright of the creator, who, by uploading, allows other users to use that content.
However, as the copyright holder is the creator and not the game's developer, the "right to cease to exist" is applicable and also the usual copyright laws which apply that can't be transferred simply through any TOS. It would always be disputable in court. Copyright is the stronger clause, so to speak.
UNLESS there is an explicit contract specific to the content between the copyright holder and the licensor who can in fact obtain a permanent license,
the creator doesn't waive his copyright.

I never did this for any gain, and i don't plan to exercise any of the rights i mention in this thread, as i said this is merely theoretical,
but i still want to point out how this is a delicate matter.

This still might make much sense to you, but here's a practical example that shows the legal standard:

If someone prepared or created a 3D model that they copied from another game or IP, it wouldn't be FDev who could be held accountable IF the copyright owner decided to
follow up suit, it is in fact the uploader. And if the uploader made his own content it would be just the same with the exception that the copyright owner is the uploader.

And circumventing the subscription takes it out of the regular conduct, and theoretically it can be considered an illegal copy, thus being eligible to
a DMCA claim towards the user. (again, this is theoretical, no one is gonna do that in reality unless it's an extreme case maybe)


Now to clear up my own position on all this. I never asked for anything in return for my assets, just because i point out certain flaws in the community's approach to custom content and blueprints doesn't mean i'm in it for the money. I, if you take a closer look at all my artwork i did throughout my lifetime, never aspired any commercial success (i.e. my musical works or my machinima and 3D projects, too), i did some freelance work in the past and am
very experienced in my fields of expertise, but i don't give a crap about career and image. However, my complains in the past were directed at a fair recognition in comparison to similar works and my main point of critique has always been the issue of how this community, or big parts of it
are more focused towards how much you involve yourself in socializing. See, not every creator is a socialite, that doesn't mean their works aren't a labour of love and it sure doesn't call for these works to be ignored compared to people who spend most of their time befriending the rest of the community. And if a certain attitude and negativity comes on top of that it is killing the motivation of ANY creator. I hope this clears up a few things about me and my stancer on all this.

@DaddyPoe no need to chill here, this is an interesting and important debate, not an argument per sé. (Hi to you, btw)


cheers,
ArtificialArtist

 

[kow75]

lol, bro >.> then the simple solution is to use your twitch and youtube channels to support said creators yeah

 

[ArtiX]

lol, bro >.> then the simple solution is to use your twitch and youtube channels to support said creators yeah

I'm not quite sure who you are referring to but pls direct that sentence towards the youtubers who dedicate themselves to make vids
and who have the time and the ad revenue to showcase (fairly) others' content in their series'. After all you're in direct contact with them.
So far, the same bias there that had always been around.

PS: I'm curious as to why you would bring this up here, as it is pretty far off the topic at hand.

 

[kow75]

because of your feels on this. and i used to keep in contact with them but there all into the trend of the zoo game. If I had time id do spotlights on my channel. but as it is now. I dont really have much time to model, sucks.

Now to clear up my own position on all this. I never asked for anything in return for my assets, just because i point out certain flaws in the community's approach to custom content and blueprints doesn't mean i'm in it for the money. I, if you take a closer look at all my artwork i did throughout my lifetime, never aspired any commercial success (i.e. my musical works or my machinima and 3D projects, too), i did some freelance work in the past and am
very experienced in my fields of expertise, but i don't give a crap about career and image. However, my complains in the past were directed at a fair recognition in comparison to similar works and my main point of critique has always been the issue of how this community, or big parts of it
are more focused towards how much you involve yourself in socializing. See, not every creator is a socialite, that doesn't mean their works aren't a labour of love and it sure doesn't call for these works to be ignored compared to people who spend most of their time befriending the rest of the community. And if a certain attitude and negativity comes on top of that it is killing the motivation of ANY creator. I hope this clears up a few things about me and my stancer on all this.

@DaddyPoe no need to chill here, this is an interesting and important debate, not an argument per sé. (Hi to you, btw)


cheers,
ArtificialArtist

 

[lilibat]

If you want to you can always move/copy the DLC items from the steam folder to your local gamefiles folder and unsubscribe the item from Steam.
It might not be too "nice" for the creator since he/she will lose a subscriber, but at least this is a way to ensure the item doesn't get updated and won't be deleted.

If you do this any BP you used the copied model in would not be able to be uploaded to steam, (I know because I tested it). Personally as a creator I wouldn't really care if someone did this for their own personal use because of that.

I haven't made anything in a while partly because of time and partly because of complicated feelings about the current state of Planet Coaster.

I have had this happen to me before, something getting pulled, and yes it is frustrating, but it's going to happen. That's why I try to only use stuff from creators I know. Luckily I know quite a few!