A Simple Solution to Combat Logging
- Thread starter Mimix
- Start date
Am I going to have to post this every couple of pages?
And if anyone's thinking of following this up with "he's wrong," then I reiterate the question, so far unanswered, that I asked in post #54. If what Sandro said is wrong then why do you think he said it? Was he lying? Simplifying for convenience? Obfuscating as a diversion? Or simply bad at his job? If I'm to be expected to take anyone else's word over that of the former lead designer, I'd like to know why I should do so.
Sandro Sammarco on livestream said:
And if anyone's thinking of following this up with "he's wrong," then I reiterate the question, so far unanswered, that I asked in post #54. If what Sandro said is wrong then why do you think he said it? Was he lying? Simplifying for convenience? Obfuscating as a diversion? Or simply bad at his job? If I'm to be expected to take anyone else's word over that of the former lead designer, I'd like to know why I should do so.
Well like the OP said, most online games have this mechanism in place (I would venture almost everyone) and certainly the ones where PVP has some impact of the game.
Lots of people here with poor internet connection, I am quite sure this is the only online game they can play as they are being constantly gangked and die before be able to perform a proper logofski on other games.
The poor souls...
Lots of people here with poor internet connection, I am quite sure this is the only online game they can play as they are being constantly gangked and die before be able to perform a proper logofski on other games.
The poor souls...
I think you are still working in a client- server setup. Where is your tag stored for P2P?
If at the server, it will fail to be set in many clogging scenarios, e.g. when a player pulls the plug on being interdicted. I think you're overestimating how often a client sends data to the server.
If at the client, where? On the player's disc? How much do you trust him? Could he find the file and delete it? Would there be cheat utilities available for automating that? (Yes!) Could he clear the flag using "verify game files"?
I've thought of these exploits in a few seconds. A determined person could probably come up with much more cunning ones.
The "tag" would probably be added to your save file upon entering combat, which is updated fairly regularly already, I think. (Based entirely on experience)
Although, I don't work for FD, so I have no idea how often this is updated.
Ideally though, the tag would be placed, and stored immediately upon entering a state where the "danger" log out timer would be in effect, which I believe includes interdictions. (But because the menu timer is only 15 seconds, you can actually log out legally using the menu during an interdiction anyway. Lol)
If you're quick to pull the plug, you might avoid the whole thing, but if you're not, the tag is placed, and then upon return, you simply can only rejoin your previous mode for a limited time.
I am probably overestimating how often the server is contacted, but most ideas here as based entirely on assumptions, because no-one really knows how anything works except FD.
So far, it's the only idea that doesn't punish anyone who suffers a CTD or server error, while also being fully automated, but also puts combat loggers back where they were.
It's a nice idea. The tag can even be stored locally on the client.
Yep, it's a simple solution alright. And crud.
To my mind the only solution to combat logging is for FD to monitor the frequency a CMDR exits during combat. If it exceeds a given amount in a given time, a warning is given, and beyond that penalties.
Obviously if this measured only in OPEN, or even in other modes (eg: SOLO) while even fighting NPCs, is open to discussion, as are the penalties.
Imagine you play a match of football (soccer for the ones across the pond) and then you kick the ball towards the goal and in te very same moment the goalkeeper realizes he can not block the ball they say "STOP! We don't play anymore!" which basically ends the match. Not only is this poor sportsmanship but also a waste of the other's time. Granted, it may not be that much of a waste as the match probably would have lasted for less than 15 seconds but still.
The argument that a players decided to simply not play with/against other teams/players doesn't count because the decision has been made when selecting a gamemode. In our football example it would probably be a decision between single palyer training, home training against obstacles and dummies and a real training against another team from the town. In Elite, it's simply solo/PG/open.
Upon selecting solo play, the player decides to not want participate in any other player activity.
Upon selecting PG, the player(s) decide(s) to participate in a selected player activity.
Upon selecting open, the player decides to participate in any other player activity.
Note that the decision being has consequences. In solo it is denying all player activity regardless of preferences whereas in open it is allowing all player activity regardless of preferences. In PG players create their own, likeminded environment to player together in a specific way (for example showing new players the game and doing an educational session).
Now, exiting the game/mode using the 15 second timer is not a bannable offense. I am of the opinion that the timer needs to be significantly longer and refresh when recieving damage (regardless of mode or contact (PvE/PvP alike)) but according to the rules it is not a breach to log out using this method so a combat logging report is not required which means that this method is totally fine.
Terminating the game to bypass the timer is, however, strictly against the rules and there are some easy ways to detect the difference between a legal way of exiting the game and a prohibited one.
One out of many ways is to watch someone's movement. When the player in question is not showing any user input for 15 seconds (slows down, only flying in a straight line, doesn't fire unless they have turrets, etc. etc.) then it is very likely that he has been logging out using the timer method. However, suddenly vanishing the second the shields drop in a proper PvP fight for example while still doing active manouvers a second before is most likely a termination of the .exe as you can not give any user input during the timer method (which is intended).
Imagine going to a football match (soccer just so you know) as a spectator only to find out one team doesn't want to play the other team because they are evenly matched so the decide they will play the spectators instead. Except the spectators didn't come equipped because they are there to watch not play so they didn't bring football boots, or shin guards or even shorts. But that doesn't matter to the other team, you turned up at a football game, you entered the stadium so by default you are eligible to play. Of course the team kicks 12 shades of biowaste out of you, but that doesn't matter because the team had fun, your feelings (and broken bones) don't matter because it is their stadium
I like cherries. Round and full of juice. Olives, too. They are just like cherries. Only salty.
Imagine going to a football match (soccer just so you know) as a spectator only to find out one team doesn't want to play the other team because they are evenly matched so the decide they will play the spectators instead. Except the spectators didn't come equipped because they are there to watch not play so they didn't bring football boots, or shin guards or even shorts. But that doesn't matter to the other team, you turned up at a football game, you entered the stadium so by default you are eligible to play. Of course the team kicks 12 shades of biowaste out of you, but that doesn't matter because the team had fun, your feelings (and broken bones) don't matter because it is their stadium
You have choices though in ED.
Going to the football match as a spectator = Solo
Going there as one of the teams = Open
You decide.
I see it this way:
Going to the football match as a spectator = PvE
Going there as one of the teams = PvP
I have decided
Very well, so you chose Solo.
No, I chose PvE in Open
Don't you hate it when someone won't play your little game and just agree with you. No they have to bring logic and common sense in and makes your argument seem just a little silly
Private Groups would like to have a word with you.
Last I checked... there are 3 options to play this game.
No there isn't, there is one mode where you can make explosions from others, and there is hiding...
(In before the usual 'Git Gud' type response)
I'm quite sure that's what some would have others believe. Here we are years later and some are still attempting to spread misinformation about the game.
Then we come back to the original design and marketing of the game where it's explicitly stated the entire BGS was meant to be affected from any of the game modes. (Hotel California, here we come yet again...) Right, wrong or otherwise- that's the way the game was designed. Yet we have some who as self-appointed "gatekeepers" think they have some sort of authority to tell other players what they can and cannot do in the game.
That's exactly why Frontier hasn't changed anything- and why they won't. Some expected EVE 2.0 and they didn't get it, which is why they're still salty.
They started with PowerPlay... then tried to encompass the BGS... and when Frontier realized what was happening, they put the kibosh on it all. Oops.
They might have gotten away with PowerPlay- had they not gotten so greedy.
(P.S. you forgot the /sarcasm tags, but I do know your posts well enough to know it's implied sarcasm.
)No, I chose PvE in Open
Don't you hate it when someone won't play your little game and just agree with you. No they have to bring logic and common sense in and makes your argument seem just a little silly
The "I choose PvE in Open" button is surely right next to the "I choose PvP in Solo" one, I guess.
No need to overcomplicate it (yet). We're still looking for the "PvE in Open" button.