There is no "overcomplication" involved. Pick your poison.
Open
Private Groups
Solo
However you wish to influence the Galaxy is your choice. What isn't your choice is how others choose.
A Simple Solution to Combat Logging
- Thread starter Mimix
- Start date
There is no "overcomplication" involved. Pick your poison.
Open
Private Groups
Solo
However you wish to influence the Galaxy is your choice. What isn't your choice is how others choose.
I guess I think of combat logging more in terms of when someone first engages another player (ie logging from being griefed/pirated etc). In which case it’s more like me asking someone to play football with me and them saying no.
If someone does it mid fight, I agree it’s a bit rubbish of them. But even in your analogy, I’m 34 years old - if someone gives up the game of football and wants to go home, I’m not going to throw my toys out the pram and want them banned from playing football. I’ll just let them go. Maybe that’s just me, but someone giving up and quitting so they don’t get stung with a rebut really doesn’t bother me. It’s only a game to me. You basically have won regardless so why would I get upset about it and want them punished?
Thank you! I was being nagged for 'walkies' so was a bit lax...
(P.S. you forgot the /sarcasm tags, but I do know your posts well enough to know it's implied sarcasm.)
It's not a bad analogy (I've certainly seen worse). But you also have to accept that the pitch is built on very shaky foundations, and the more people interact with the ball the more likely it is that the goalkeeper, upon bracing for a dive, might instead plunge through the surface of the pitch and disappear from the game. As might any of the forwards. And not even the referee can determine whether or not this was deliberate.
That's the problem with finding parallels for ED. Not only are there no real-world examples that work without a few caveats, as far as I know there's nothing like it in the world of multiplayer gaming either*.
The game is the way it is, in part, because David Braben's vision was of a like-minded community and the game's rules working together to self-police civilised space and make the more extreme forms of pilot-on-pilot aggression undesirable and difficult, even using P2P. Not only was this incredibly naive, but the game is still missing many of the discussed features that might have at least helped to pull it very loosely in the right direction. And I for one can't see anything changing now. Despite FD talking some talk they seem largely happy with the status quo, and the majority of players appear to have accepted -- perhaps reluctantly -- that Open is the de facto "PVP mode" and Solo is the "PVE mode" and the various PGs sit on a spectrum between the two.
The remaining problem is those players who won't accept this, either because they want everyone to play Open and be a potential PVP target wherever they go or because they want the right to play Open without being a potential PVP target wherever they go. I've never quite understood the first one but God knows I spent enough time on the fringes of the second group, waiting for FD to pull their finger out and give us the complicated and nuanced ruleset they talked about in 2012/2013. But I'm pretty certain that ain't happening now.
So I do get the frustration. But looking for technical band-aid solutions to slap over the current game's wounds is an exercise in futility. Not only do the proposed solutions -- even the "simple" ones -- rarely survive contact with a critically and nefariously minded community, but FD themselves have stated more than once that they cannot implement anything that involves real-time monitoring and arbitration. It just can't be done on the current architecture.
There are only two ways out of this deadlock for FD. Either they can monitor and analyse post facto the statistics relating to ungraceful disconnections in the hope of building up a model from which to extract some best-guess behavioural patterns, which carries a whole host of potential pitfalls. Or they can rebuild the game's entire architecture on a networking structure that is more amenable to real-time monitoring. Both of these would require a lot of manhours to achieve, and while they have hinted at the possibility of the former AFAIK they've given no indication that the latter has even been considered. The only hope in that regard is that some of the big changes coming in the next couple of years may include the network architecture. But it feels like a very long shot.
On the other hand the way out of the deadlock for players is "simple". Accept the Modes for what they have become, even if it sticks in the craw. Pick the Mode or Modes that will annoy you the least (while accepting the right of other players to pick different ones) and enjoy playing ED. Which is really the only truly common thing for which we've all signed up.
*
Many moons ago, back in the days of dial-up, I remember playing a multiplayer WWII combat flight game whose name escapes me. The players discovered that a temporary interruption to the modem data -- long enough to confuse the game but short enough not to cause the ISP to disconnect -- would cause the aircraft to drop "backwards" along its flight path by a distance proportional to the data outage. Very quickly people started building custom modem cables with push-to-break switches, creating a sort of "Top Gun airbrake" button that would instantly put them on the tail of any pursuing attacker. If the attacker did the same, close combat turned into a form of backwards leapfrog. There were even rumours that some players had built electronic boxes with timer ICs with adjustable controls calibrated in feet so they could "dial in" the distance they wanted to drop back. Not an exact parallel with ED, but it's about the closest I could remember and it still amuses me.
If someone combat logs, the game should force them to watch this video:
No alt tabbing either. You have to move the mouse every 15 second as well. No walking away.
You’re a sadist.If someone combat logs, the game should force them to watch this video:Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQaK-j1n8co
No alt tabbing either. You have to move the mouse every 15 second as well. No walking away.
So are you that naïve to suggest there isn't PvE in Open? So what have I been doing in Open for the last several months? I agree there isn't PvP in Solo but to even suggest that there isn't PvE in Open just shows how utterly out of touch you are in regards to the game. Congratulations you have just made every comment you now make about Open totally irrelevant because people will quote the above !
I took it to mean they are equally stupid
Except for the argument being invalid because there is no relation between the spectator's place and open play.Imagine going to a football match (soccer just so you know) as a spectator only to find out one team doesn't want to play the other team because they are evenly matched so the decide they will play the spectators instead. Except the spectators didn't come equipped because they are there to watch not play so they didn't bring football boots, or shin guards or even shorts. But that doesn't matter to the other team, you turned up at a football game, you entered the stadium so by default you are eligible to play. Of course the team kicks 12 shades of biowaste out of you, but that doesn't matter because the team had fun, your feelings (and broken bones) don't matter because it is their stadium
You can't really enter any mode as a spectator which leaves us with only one option to enter the mode: as a participant.
In your example, your football match would not have any spectators at all because the stadium can only be entered as a playing team/player in which case it is totally fine to be challenged by any other present team.
These threads are awesome.
Ya. Still waiting for any open player to tell us what they lost if some one clogs?
Well. Except making some one else suffer.
You still wonder why FD won't deal with open pkr's not getting a sure kill.
What do players lose if;
The markets arent based on real economics,
The dark side of planets aren't dark,
The payout for actvity "x" is more/less than activity "y",
The system scanner doesnt work the way thy prefer.
et all......
Why hinge the issue on a single point?
Discussing these issues is what the forum is for.
Im not championing one point or another, to me its a moot point, but its clearly cheating and many dont like that for whatever reason.
Why is them losing something the issue?
Because if they aren't losing anything then all of this arguing and chest thumping is for nothing. If nothing is lost why should FD expend one second of time on any remedial action, it would be a wasted use of resources.
1) Combat logging prevents PvP pirates (not murderers) from enjoying their gameplay and income.
2) PvP law enforcers (like myself), can't claim the bounties of combat logging murderhobos, also depriving us of gameplay and income.
The murderhobos also gets away Scott free, with no punishment for their illegal actions.
3) PowerPlay CMDRs can avoid loss of merits by combat logging, and also other PP CMDRs aren't able to prevent combat loggers from cashing in said merits.
Considering a large percentage of those clogging are the undesirable elements of the pvp fraternity that many spend countless pixels bemoaning, i think the arguments against tightening up this escape mechanism are extremely shortsighted at the very least.
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I've still yet to see how one proves beyond a reasonable doubt (aside from their own admission) that someone else is combat logging to begin with.
Assertion alone isn't proof.
If you want Frontier to seriously address this as an "issue"- you'll need to go a bit further than "I think they did..." and show them how simply reporting another player won't punish innocent players who may have a reasonable explanation for why they were disconnected, such as circumstances beyond their control.
Internet connections aren't foolproof. All I'm seeing here is a solution in search of a problem. Correlation isn't causation.
Assertion alone isn't proof.
If you want Frontier to seriously address this as an "issue"- you'll need to go a bit further than "I think they did..." and show them how simply reporting another player won't punish innocent players who may have a reasonable explanation for why they were disconnected, such as circumstances beyond their control.
Internet connections aren't foolproof. All I'm seeing here is a solution in search of a problem. Correlation isn't causation.
I agree. The OP suggestion and many that followed are completely unworkable.
But that doesn't negate the existance of a problem, just poor solutions.
Ps, i have no solution either, hence my previous posts .
I can’t believe this is still going. Maybe people should just play the game and spend less time arguing over a situation that is never going to change? Just a thought.
There are also situations where someone might have to log - I have a 2 year old, if she wakes up crying or hurts herself I’m I supposed to leave her to finish a fight or wait 15 seconds before going to her? Or if someone comes to the door and I need to answer? Of course not. That would be a horrible thing to force on people and, I believe, totally unenforceable.
Still, none of this matters as Sandro has confirmed already they have no way of knowing how someone exited the game. Nor do I - I wonder if many people complaining about logging have actually been experiencing people exiting via the timer. They have no way to know that the other player logged or left legitimately.