The hardest part will be finding tickets that report a real cheater under the massive heap of claims like this...
A weird encounter, may have been a hack but definatly an expliot if not.....
- Thread starter lonewarrior
- Start date
The hardest part will be finding tickets that report a real cheater under the massive heap of claims like this...
Yep.. it will end up like any other MP game on the market, a hack fest for the casual player. Haven't seen one yet that hasn't, unless you can purchase your own private high dollar server, or allowed to play on someone else's. Probably is a game out there that doesn't have hacks in MP, but who knows where. The hacks will get away free of charge and the victims will suffer for it. Much like life.
That is the hope of the cheat community right now that, this enables them, I also think at this stage it is unrealistic for FD to say much if anything especially on the forums, given the mob mentality of some posters just look at the "OMGODZ insurance friendly Fire and Change the game" As i said earlier "Pretty Tinfoil Bonnet On" They are already playing the game and monitoring this forum...
We have to try and balance being vigilant about some players actions may be exploitative / hacks but at the same while accepting that sometimes the other player is better in PvP or the net or someone's computer just crashes.
Well this took longer than I expected. Most persistent multiplayer online pvp games have hacks developed during beta, and released in the first week.
It's a shame FD took the peer-to-peer route. This thread is the reason most persistent multiplayer online games don't use peer-to-peer.
Ah well, back to solo mode.
It's a shame FD took the peer-to-peer route. This thread is the reason most persistent multiplayer online games don't use peer-to-peer.
Ah well, back to solo mode.
Based on the 'cheater' dev thread, the cheat allows you to have unlimited ammo, unlimited ammo storage and hull freeze.
What does that mean they can spam shield cells like crazy, that is why people have seen commanders getting shot by a station and still able to exit station leisurely. Also with hull freeze and shield cell spam they can survive head on collisions easy.
If more people report 'weird behavior' by same commander and hopefully have 'shadow play' recording of such commander it can be traced better.
What does that mean they can spam shield cells like crazy, that is why people have seen commanders getting shot by a station and still able to exit station leisurely. Also with hull freeze and shield cell spam they can survive head on collisions easy.
If more people report 'weird behavior' by same commander and hopefully have 'shadow play' recording of such commander it can be traced better.
OK, clearer explanation for the hard-of-thinking:
Player A fires at player B and does 100 damage to his shields.
Player A's client logs the fact that it did this damage to Player shields to the ED server.
Player B's client does not log the fact that 100 damage was done to his shields by player A because he was using a hack to prevent shield damage hence an suspicious activity alert can be raised.
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Since I was in an ASP with 100% and they were in a Cobra with 27% it shouldn't be that difficult to find.
Lol as part of another sim's development team there are a few sites we monitor for hacks etc. Just checked one and they have already picked apart the latest Beta although one or two are complaining about being exiled to a solo only environment in the main game. what amazes me is these are people that paid for the Beta access or earlier and insist on hacking the damn game... The good news its not something the average Joe Bloggs could do. SO no people are not being paranoid. I opened a ticket with the relevant info with dev and the specific way they are doing it, hopefully it will get blocked although i don't think it will be that easy to totally block, more like just exile / ban the offenders.
Ramming damage is somehow bugged. Lots of people complaining and fixes included in 1.1 hopefully.
Out of idle curiosity I googled about cheats.
Oh. My. God.
I assumed everything was validated by a central server somehow.
There is absolutely no point playing in Open at all now is there?
ED has become a single-player game for me now
One of the '84s
Prior to purchasing the game I researched how it handled its server side duties. And upon finding out it was peer to peer I knew full well it was going to be hacked to high heaven in short order, and a quick search proved that out. However, the fact that it had solo play was what sold me. For those focused on online play though, it will be no different than CoD or other peer to peer type games insofar as the hacking community is concerned.
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In other words, they can expect a hacker hiding behind each and every planet?
I guess they will eventually have to learn the way of Logoffsky. <--My cat is really good at catching hackers btw I'm still playing solo though, the mighty feline needs to rest.
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Wrong. Money and other transactions get authorized by a central server as they are happening relatively little (per session/player). Combat interaction exist only on the client and doesnt get checked server-side. There are basic obfuscations in place but but short of a central server that validates damage/hits/heat/etc there is nothing FD can do. The CheatEngine work very clearly shows this.
FD knew this and opted for a p2p model, probably for financial reasons. This problem will only get worse until FD deploy heavy-duty reversing and anti-debugging tech. I dont hold my breath to be honest.
In other words, they can expect a hacker hiding behind each and every planet?
That's pretty much the size of it, yes
No, I doubt they need every interaction validated by server - the effects of cheats persist. Just a few checks per encounter (and perhaps only even that much only if a client flags peer values as suspicious) should be able to reveal discrepancies between clients that networking doesn't explain, which means server correspondence need only happen relatively little per play-session for a solution that while not instant, can get the job done. It can a big task to set it up if they haven't already laid any groundwork, but we don't really know.
You don't really need to halt all the cheating, I think it's sufficient to just flag the cheater account such that effective immediately, they can only p2p with other cheaters. If cheating gets accounts flagged fairly rapidly, even though not immediately, let alone prevented altogether, then speaking for myself, I'll accept encountering and suffering at the hands of the rare first-time-cheater for the satisfaction of knowing that our encounter just trashed their previously-clean account and can now only play against their own kind, and if they don't like that they have to buy another copy of the game to clean their slate, thus funding future Elite development for me to enjoy.
(If I lose millions, I'd obviously still like to get some of that back though.)
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Rafe Zetter
Banned
In every single game I have played that had a multiplayer component of any kind - and that's a LOT - there has always been players who are there just to laugh and point at "the stupid noobs who aren't smart enough to cheat".
It's the same mentality as hackers, who do it to prove their superiority, or the Haxxor players who do it because they "WANT IT NOW!!!!!"
another reason why ALT-f4 is a good thing.
I've also just googled E: D and cheats - apparently aimbots and wallhacks are straightforward and simple.... I quote
"In battles aimbots are even more effective and will allow you to stick to a target perfectly if you have the required maneuverability"
They also state there are paid versions of hacks that are invisible to the game trackers.
Now I'm starting to wonder, am I right in thinking the "first to elite combat status" part of the competition has already been won and can they prove all kills were legitimate? - if there is any shots / hits info to track?
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One of the basic tenets of online game design is: never trust the client, with anything, ever.
In other words, every aspect of the client that isn't validated by the server will be hacked, cheated, exploited, abused, etc.
But don't take my word for it.
I kinda doubt they will ever do anything substantive to prevent hacking. As you note, short of pulling everything into a server farm where you host the session, its a losing battle trying to counter hacking in a p2p game. And if they wanted to go that path, that's where they would have started. But, as games like CoD show, people are willing to still pay to play a game that is fully hacked. FD likely had that in mind when they went this route.
I don't think you follow me. I did not suggest that some client values are immune from hacking, I pointed out that that you don't need to audit every hackable value every event if you merely want to detect if something was hacked at some point. Server checking every value every event is a way to remove the possibility of hacking. As I later explained, I don't think that is necessary. I think permanently flagging accounts in not-quite-realtime-but-pretty-damn-fast (instead of removing the possibility of cheating) can be sufficient.
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The rage and throwing of tantrums when they get banned and realize they wasted 6 months of allowance money makes up for the small chance of running into them.
Given the tuna net handling of the founders world permit early backer perk, I don't trust FDEV to flag anything.
Especially given they didn't fix the erroneously reset "skill points" of everyone un-accused, after being accused.
But us discussing it doesn't matter in the slightest.
The horse is out of the barn, down the hill, and across the field, this being a fundamental design issue.
First they would have to admit they were wrong, which pride and money will never permit. Then they'd have to redesign the entire game, which time and money will never permit. I'll sit with a firm "unlikely" on this one.