Can someone verify that?
About that double-engineered FSD reward for the CG...
- Thread starter marx
- Start date
78.7, but its only a skeleton with engineered to the teeth. (75.69 * 1.04)Can someone verify that?
One extra module isn't going to matter. Five or six will. That's the thing. Either the module is superior to what's currently available, or it's useless. If we get one of these per month, then by this time next year most cutting edge builds will include several of them.
You can argue that this doesn't matter because the game isn't competitive, or too easy, but that's basically arguing that the game's balance doesn't matter at all. The fact of the matter is, we're going to hopefully see a bunch of new players join in for the new expansion, and if you tell them that they are literally unable to compete with other players simply because they haven't owned the game as long, they will quit.
Maybe this is just a lead- in to double engineering options more broadly available, and this is just early access.
But tbh, thanks to FCs it's not like this is a game breaking module.
Possibly - there's no guarantee that the modules will necessarily work well together, or fit on the same ship, though. If the next two weapons are a fixed medium burst laser and a turret small frag, even if they are technically better than standard engineering it's going to take an inventive build to make good use of them and the missile launcher on a single ship.
(And I would hope that Frontier did continue to stay away from the few ridiculously good combinations - long-range + almost anything else on a weapon, any two on a power distributor or plant, etc. that are why we can't have double-engineering in general)
Having seen hundreds of changes over the years that massively changed game balance without really making much difference overall ... I certainly think the game's balance matters a lot less than I originally thought it did.
On this current module, for example, maximum jump ranges have gone from 40 LY stripped down (10-20 LY working fit) to 330 LY stripped down and neutron boosting (20-50 LY working fit) plus 500 LY carrier jumps ... without anything really breaking. A few players have legacy lightweight sensors or drives which let them build a ship which can jump marginally further than is possible with currently available modules ... it hasn't really mattered.
So long as Frontier keeps doing this sort of CG reward, they'll be able to catch up, though, if they want.
You've been able to say that to beginners - in a literally true sense - since 3.0's engineer reform kept the legacy modules intact, almost three years ago. And that was only replacing the original god-roll engineering where unless you put in tens of thousands of rolls and got lucky someone else was always going to have a better module than you.
There's a little bit of grumbling about it from serious PvPers but broadly speaking no-one else cares.
(And I'd like to care about it in theory but in practice I find it hard to find many occasions where someone will be able to outcompete me solely because of a superior module - as opposed to "actually practising this stuff" or "putting in ten hours a day grinding it" or whatever)
That would be interesting to know and might even end this discussion.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Why do you assume this CG is for explorers?
The double-engineered missile rack came with an experimental effect, but people were able to change it and apply a different one.
So adding mass manager to this one will probably also be possible.
Oh well... let the discussion continue.
Deleted member 182079
D
As a non-PvPer (but who sometimes shoots back and either has to run or instead pops subsequently!) this module is pretty neat - size 5 means that largely multirole medium ships will benefit - while the meta PvP combat ship will lose out as you say - in a way it kind of levels the playing field for those who play in Open but still want to get some utility out of their mining/trading Python for example.The fast boot experimental may be useless to explorers, but Not to PvPers. Since the first thing organic pvpers sub target is the FSD, most organic Pvpers have the shielded or faster boot sequence modifications, especially if they fight after shields drop.
The addition of a long range with the faster boot sequence will make high waking hunts much more feasible and allow PvPers to free up an internal by getting rid of a scoop if they choose.
I am very tempted to grind this CG. Too bad it isnt for a 4A since I fly mostly FDLs.
I use the Increased Distance mod on 99% of my ships because the jump range penalty is pretty severe if you apply the FSD boot sequence one; that has been applied only on a couple of my ships that are likely to be targets by gankers (such as my slow T10 which can't avoid grom rockets and the like) but those ships are built to withstand a decent hammering also.
Fitting this module to a paper exploration AspX won't make much of a difference as the ship will likely explode before it can spool up the FSD, but it will give PvE Open players a better chance to low-wake.
My main account which would certainly benefit from this is 6k LY outside the bubble unfortunately, and my alt account doesn't have the capacity to get to the 25% (no FC, no large enough ship, not enough credits to buy one either, no AX gear unlocked).
Still, I think I'll still cope missing out on this module, because to be fair, the amount of times my FSD fast boot builds actually benefited from this mod were close to zero so far.
Also, this.
That's a loaded question. I hoped there were better standards for moderators here.
Also, I'd still like to hear from Frontier on the specifics of this, and I know plenty of other people would as well. So, @Arthur Tolmie , to repeat it: could we have some clarification on this? How will the Optimal Mass increases from the two blueprints stack?
The Increased Range blueprint gives +55% Optimal Mass, the Faster Boot Sequence blueprint gives +15% Optimal Mass. What increase in Optimal Mass will the double-engineered reward will have?
After all, the Mass Manager experimental also gives a +4% optimal mass boost, which normally multiplies with the +55% to give a +61.2% Optimal Mass on a fully-engineered 5A FSD with Increased Range and the Mass Manager added. If the double-engineered effect will follow the same, then a small percentage of players will get +85.38% Optimal Mass FSDs. That means a +24.18% advantage over the players who weren't in the top 25% of either CG, during this one week - which is the vast majority of players.
So, I guess another question would be: will these double-engineered modules be available for all players later?
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rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
It's a genuine question. You seem to indicate in the OP that this CG is aimed at the exploration community, as if nobody else would want to have a cool, double-engineered FSD. I was curious why you seem to think that.
Am I missing something or where does this "15% increase to optimal mass" come from. It doesn't mention anywhere that I've seen, anything about an extra 15% increase to optimal mass.
All I've seen is that the module reward for the top 25% is a Grade 5 FSD with Increased Range and Faster Boot sequence.
So to me that just means a Grade 5 FSD with a bit of engineering to increase it's range and then an extra bit of engineering to give it a Faster Boot Sequence.
IMO Not that much of a kick (if any) to explorers.
IF the effects stack - as they did with the missiles - we'd get a FSD engineered with 15% more effectiveness than a regular FSD engineered only with Increase Range
Which would make my regular exploration Asx-X range increase from 66.48 to 72.71 LY
In that case, you misunderstood the things I wrote. I didn't say nor indicate that this CG is aimed at the exploration community. Besides, by now you should know that this isn't the issue here.
If you should claim you don't, then let me repeat what has been said: the issue is that based on what information we have now, Frontier is going to release a module that's more powerful than what is obtainable, for the winners of one week's competitive goal. I suggested setting the participation requirement for the reward to 75%, the same as it was for the earlier double-engineered module.
It would be best if such a module were obtainable for everyone, but this "change to top 75%" is the option that would involve the least effort for Frontier. Assuming they won't just ignore people, of course. Which is the least effort, sure, but also the most damaging to how the developers are viewed by many players.
Better options would be to allow this module, and any other double-engineered ones they plan to make, available to everyone through regular gameplay, not time-limited exclusive events.
You're missing that the Faster Boot Sequence blueprint also gives a +15% increased to optimal mass. (Look it up in-game, or on Inara, or other sites.) For a full breakdown, see my previous post. If this increase works as current rules work, then it'll be a +24.18% over what's available to the overwhelming majority of players.