Horizons Absolutely Disgusting

Garbarrage · Dec 21, 2015

Digmeahole said:
You are 100% correct. Do not listen to any of these fanboy, cult, brainwashed, never gamed before trolls who say different.

Trolls? Used in a post which offers no point, merely an insult to those who disagree?

Have a read:
Psychological Projection

BigDuke6ixx · Dec 21, 2015

Garbarrage said:
Name one Free to Play game that has more depth.

Time passes and still no answer.

Fire70 · Dec 21, 2015

I do admire the way the small vocal minority defend this game and any negativity against it in every thread that comes up, but the fact there a far more of these type of threads than +1 FD threads really shows you the game has problems.

@OP if you only just brought the game well that is a bit unfair but if you brought it a while ago then yes it is expensive but it is what it is.

Personally I won't buy it because I don't think it is value for money and many of the forum thread have confirmed this lack of value. It will come out on sale so just wait for then if you really want it..

SlugwormX · Dec 21, 2015

nexxo said:
Hmmm no. SC crashes within five minutes and is a buggy mess. Will all get sorted out, of course, but then they have to create systems to visit and things to do. The latter is important. You can run around on bases and ships shooting at each other, but we have yet to see what meaningful activities and missions will be available.

Maybe for you, but others have a different experience, and it is still Alpha. Regarding missions, someone else posted this video. Skip to around 5 minutes to see how SC handles missions. Be prepared though, there is actually a voice offering you the mission...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHUB0UEZHXU

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Garbarrage said:
Name one Free to Play game that has more depth.

Point of order: Elite doesn't have depth. At least not yet.

Game with depth that is F2P: Firefall

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BigDuke6ixx said:
Time passes and still no answer.

You have an answer

nexxo · Dec 21, 2015

Fire70 said:
I do admire the way the small vocal minority defend this game and any negativity against it in every thread that comes up, but the fact there a far more of these type of threads than +1 FD threads really shows you the game has problems.

Or that people have problems. Looking at social media in general, my bet is on people.

SlugwormX · Dec 21, 2015

nexxo said:
Or that people have problems. Looking at social media in general, my bet is on people.

Hey, I'm sure that not all the people at FD have problems...

BigDuke6ixx · Dec 21, 2015

SlugwormX said:
You have an answer

Yeah right.

nexxo · Dec 21, 2015

SlugwormX said:
Maybe for you, but others have a different experience, and it is still Alpha. Regarding missions, someone else posted this video. Skip to around 5 minutes to see how SC handles missions. Be prepared though, there is actually a voice offering you the mission...

So? Elite Dangerous is only two years into development too, by a much smaller team on a much smaller budget, but that doesn't seem to cut it any slack. But SC has missed its launch date by a year, now won't launch until 2017, despite a huge team working on it and a staggering $100 million budget, and people are totally understanding about that, because great games take time to create, right? So am I, but I wish ED was shown the same understanding.

As for missions: A+ for presentation, let's see how they measure up in variety. We won't know until the game is out.

Agrar Therenus · Dec 21, 2015

Maybe buy it at the end of season 2? So then you can see what you are actually paying for when it's actually in the game, rather than paying for it in advance.

Iskariot · Dec 21, 2015

Snerk said:
I bought the base game a while ago because it looked great. Spent just about $80 Australian Dollars for it. Now that Horizons has come around at a staggering price of an additional $84 Australian Dollars, I will have had to drop a staggering $164 Australian Dollars. However, if I hadn't played the game earlier and I had come to the game fresh right now, I would get the entire game plus Horizons for only $84 Australian Dollars. Even when taking in the discount that I just learned I'll get for being a previous player of the game, I will pay $142 Australian Dollars while a newcomer only has to pay $84.

Why is this? Does Frontier hate people for playing the game before Horizons came out?

I'm not quite sure what one can buy for an Australian dollar compared to an American, but if the real value of those coins is comparable then Australians have to pay abysmal amounts of money for their games.

As far as the season pricing goes... FD has been explaining their pricing policy for quite some time now.
People who bought season one have been able to play the game for a maximum of a year already.
It is indeed true that if you had bought horizons only you would have kept money in your pocket, but you would only have been able to play since the release of Horizons this month.
If that appeals to you then you should wait 10 years. You will then, after 10 years of development, be able to buy the complete game for perhaps 84 australian dollars.

I do hope you did not buy Elite one month before Horizons was released. That would indeed have been a waste of money.
I do think the discount for Elite Dangerous owners could be a bit more generous, but I also understand that FD needs the money to secure the further development of this huge 10 year project, without a subscription fee by the way.

I already put something like 1800 hours into the game, if I remember correctly, so as far as I am concerned ED is worth every single penny.

the100thmonkey · Dec 21, 2015

flint read said:
bye enjoy SC 0/ i have over 1000 hours and still having fun show me one more game that returns a value like that!

I paid ¥6000 for BF4 two years ago and another ¥6000 for the Premium expansion pass before I'd even played the game on the strength of BF2 and BF3 (although to be fair I should have listened to my reservations.) So far I've played just shy of 400 hours and I feel that I've got my money's worth. Thats roughly 25p per hour of entertainment. In contrast, I have over 2000 hours in BF2 and BF3.

So far I've paid ¥18000 for Elite (base game + lifetime expansion pass) and have put in over 1000 hours in the first year.

While one might have legitimate concerns about how FD communicated their pricing strategy for Horizons, the actual pricing is competitive.

Incidentally, people can now buy BF4 and Premium for about ¥3000. It doesn't bother me.

Bostlabs · Dec 22, 2015

dognosh said:
For the love of god, can the mods please make one giant thread for this topic ?

I'd buy that for a dollar!

Aussiedroid · Dec 22, 2015

If I didnt have the lifetime pass, I would not have bought Horizons, not until the full season is released at least to see what you are actually getting for your money. Yeah price is high, that is fine if the game is worth the investment (ie you will get your hours worth of entertainment out of it). I am telling my friends to avoid this for now in good concuous.

What I strongly disagree with is the way this is setup as a standalone game in Steam. It is not, it is an expansion, we continue to play in the same game world, same CMDR (why no second CMDR Frontier if this is indeed a standalone game?). I can already foresee my Steam Library with 10+ versions as the years roll on, all with separate installs, separate communities and playtime etc etc. Already seen duplicate patch notes being generated spamming my Activity feed from this setup! (Why is Horizon patch notes being added to the standalone base game??).

Segmenting the community is never a good call, and I think this decision from Frontier will give good revenue in short term, but in long term will simply serve to disuade players from buying into future seasons. Focus seems to me to be on new player take up and not catering to those existing players; the hardcore players. If the game looses a lot of those it will fade very quickly. We are the ones that promote your game, tell our friends get them interested, that support you on forums and other gaming communities.

Pricing should be rewarding existing players/supporters of your game much more than you are currently doing. This sort of practice is making a lot of people unhappy.. unhappy players will not be spending more money on your game.

Its too late to change it now though I fear.. damage is done.

xondk · Dec 22, 2015

Snerk said:
I bought the base game a while ago because it looked great. Spent just about $80 Australian Dollars for it. Now that Horizons has come around at a staggering price of an additional $84 Australian Dollars, I will have had to drop a staggering $164 Australian Dollars. However, if I hadn't played the game earlier and I had come to the game fresh right now, I would get the entire game plus Horizons for only $84 Australian Dollars. Even when taking in the discount that I just learned I'll get for being a previous player of the game, I will pay $142 Australian Dollars while a newcomer only has to pay $84.

Why is this? Does Frontier hate people for playing the game before Horizons came out?

While I understand the frustration you are in exactly the same boat if you buy into a MMO and they come out with an expansion later on, and here you aren't paying for being able to play. So yeah...seems fine to me, its something that's been happening in a lot of games for ages, so yeah, its fine for me, and worth it.

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Aussiedroid said:
What I strongly disagree with is the way this is setup as a standalone game in Steam. It is not, it is an expansion, we continue to play in the same game world, same CMDR (why no second CMDR Frontier if this is indeed a standalone game?). I can already foresee my Steam Library with 10+ versions as the years roll on, all with separate installs, separate communities and playtime etc etc. Already seen duplicate patch notes being generated spamming my Activity feed from this setup! (Why is Horizon patch notes being added to the standalone base game??).

This is a steam limitation more then anything else just fyi.

Fire70 · Dec 22, 2015

Aussiedroid said:
If I didnt have the lifetime pass, I would not have bought Horizons, not until the full season is released at least to see what you are actually getting for your money. Yeah price is high, that is fine if the game is worth the investment (ie you will get your hours worth of entertainment out of it). I am telling my friends to avoid this for now in good concuous.

What I strongly disagree with is the way this is setup as a standalone game in Steam. It is not, it is an expansion, we continue to play in the same game world, same CMDR (why no second CMDR Frontier if this is indeed a standalone game?). I can already foresee my Steam Library with 10+ versions as the years roll on, all with separate installs, separate communities and playtime etc etc. Already seen duplicate patch notes being generated spamming my Activity feed from this setup! (Why is Horizon patch notes being added to the standalone base game??).

Segmenting the community is never a good call, and I think this decision from Frontier will give good revenue in short term, but in long term will simply serve to disuade players from buying into future seasons. Focus seems to me to be on new player take up and not catering to those existing players; the hardcore players. If the game looses a lot of those it will fade very quickly. We are the ones that promote your game, tell our friends get them interested, that support you on forums and other gaming communities.

Pricing should be rewarding existing players/supporters of your game much more than you are currently doing. This sort of practice is making a lot of people unhappy.. unhappy players will not be spending more money on your game.

Its too late to change it now though I fear.. damage is done.

As it is now I don't think 1.5 users will be too disadvantaged but what happens as time goes on.. Eventually FD will have to make a decision if they are going to still support the base game because it will get to the stage where it will have to be patched with some of the paid content in order for it to still be able to fly in the same galaxy..

I wonder how they will address this..

Aussiedroid · Dec 22, 2015

xondk said:
This is a steam limitation more then anything else just fyi.

In what way?

So this wasnt a choice it had to be setup as a separate game?

Fire70 · Dec 22, 2015

xondk said:
This is a steam limitation more then anything else just fyi.

I have plenty of games with DLC which Steam handles just fine because Steam just pushes you to the clients launcher. Why do you think FD can not do this??

Khelder · Dec 22, 2015

xondk said:
This is a steam limitation more then anything else just fyi.

It was my understanding that they did this so that it could be treated as a "separate game". Which it isn't. It's the an expansion with the base included. Which, to me, has made it just confusing. I don't understand why they didn't make it so that everyone had to buy all of the seasons? Isn't that the way games like WoW worked? You can discount the base game and make the expansion cheaper if buying both seemed prohibitive for new buyers. But now you have this "separate game" concept when it clearly isn't.

EDIT: Just thinking, the 64bit transition probably didn't help.

Reaper99 · Dec 22, 2015

when the orginal ED was kickstarted I backed at the 60 pds british sterlings price I think...which was about 80 us or something like that...but I didn't back high enough to get the season pass...then at one point I forked out the alpha price which was 200...so I'm 280 us to the 142 aus....it was worth it...and I get the additional content free...anyone could have done the same back then...many did and then some...been playing and having fun for a bit over a year now...my return on investment...well depends on if I stop playing...every day I play...my overall return gets better...

SC is Chris Roberts dream game...called Star Citizen...with a single player package of Squadron 42....set in a much smaller sandbox universe of around 100 systems...pretty ships...and promises to fulfill every gamers wet dream...weather its FPS...sims...racing...etc...at this time a very expensive tech demo...I like Chris and hope to see this as I am one of those that Meric mentioned...1000k plus backer to a game that was to originally go live in 2014...2 years after the campaign....then they continued to add more ideas...and the game became more and more complicated and the time line has now stretched to 2017 for SC and 2016 for squadron 42...and I wouldn't be betting on that horse...again hope to see it...but I think whats going to happen is its going to try and do everything only to succeed marginally and hit mediocrity rather than excel at being the best at one thing
Chris has done well in the past but also had his vision for something fall short over all. so we shall see on that front...back to elite...when the season pass comes up again...I strongly suggest considering it....at this point the additional 9-10 seasons will come free...figure that at current price and you will come out ahead...unless you wait...then just wait some more til it hits bargin bin or discount and you have no worries...just might be hamstrung til then.

xondk · Dec 22, 2015

Fire70 said:
As it is now I don't think 1.5 users will be too disadvantaged but what happens as time goes on.. Eventually FD will have to make a decision if they are going to still support the base game because it will get to the stage where it will have to be patched with some of the paid content in order for it to still be able to fly in the same galaxy..

I wonder how they will address this..

This is no different then any other MMO that gets expansions, if people don't get those expansions they don't get the advantages from them? why is it suddenly a bad thing with Elite?

Aussiedroid said:
In what way?

So this wasnt a choice it had to be setup as a separate game?

Fire70 said:
I have plenty of games with DLC which Steam handles just fine because Steam just pushes you to the clients launcher. Why do you think FD can not do this??

Elite: Dangerous is a game on its own, Elite: Dangerous Horizons is however also a game on its own, it isn't relying on having the original Elite to play the full elite dangerous horizons game, meaning it isn't an expansions in the normal sense file wise.

Ideally Steam would have one page for Elite: Dangerous, which would on top of the page have Horizon, and then on the bottom the separate version of the game that being the base game people could get cheaper, making people aware that horizon is the full game.

However last I checked games that compare to same structure, don't show both versions, they only show the latest version, Elite wants to offer both, and that is not a structure that Steam currently has last I checked, offering the 'full' game and then a 'base' game on the same page, so, two pages instead even though they are the same game?

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Khelder said:
It was my understanding that they did this so that it could be treated as a "separate game". Which it isn't. It's the an expansion with the base included. Which, to me, has made it just confusing. I don't understand why they didn't make it so that everyone had to buy all of the seasons? Isn't that the way games like WoW worked? You can discount the base game and make the expansion cheaper if buying both seemed prohibitive for new buyers. But now you have this "separate game" concept when it clearly isn't.

Same concept, though just to clear up people's nostalgia glasses, WoW never discounted expansions until the expansion after that was out, if you had bought the full game and then the expansion game out a few months later? tough luck, similar in a ton of other MMO's I don't understand why people are upset with Elite having it like that when it doesn't even have subscriptions, you are paying for a full season of game, in one go, is it really that expensive then?

And yes, if you are unsure it will be worth your time, then don't get it? but if you are already playing Elite and enjoying it? why is it a problem then?