Powerplay Action against bots and cheats

[Agony_Aunt]

But for all the people that don't have an Open Only Cooperative Team Game Mechanic a great improvement indeed. Still trying to deny things to people?

I don't know, are you trying to deny things to the people who enjoy PP from PG/solo? Or those who want improvements to PP and would play if it became more interesting, but from PG/solo?

Also, about those people who want an open only coop team game mechanic, great for those guys, but there are a hell of a lot of people playing ED who don't get much time to wing up, to coop, to spend time with others in open. I'd suggest the majority of ED players are people with limited play time and time for getting together with others for coordinated activities. At least it would seem so every time a "the game does not respect players' time" thread comes up.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I don't know, are you trying to deny things to the people who enjoy PP from PG/solo? Or those who want improvements to PP and would play if it became more interesting, but from PG/solo?

Also, about those people who want an open only coop team game mechanic, great for those guys, but there are a hell of a lot of people playing ED who don't get much time to wing up, to coop, to spend time with others in open. I'd suggest the majority of ED players are people with limited play time and time for getting together with others for coordinated activities. At least it would seem so every time a "the game does not respect players' time" thread comes up.

They've got the BGS and any other game mechanic. The Open Play community has nothing. So you want all the game for yourself? Nothing left to us?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I would, and many others too. Maybe you wouldn't, as I don't do explorations or mining, but I'm not against those mechanics.

The question is, how many others? This would remain to be seen. The less haulers there are in general vs the number of gank...erm.. i mean PvPers, the harder it will be for the haulers to do their job.

Like i said in the other thread, this is one reason why i'd be interested to watch if FD actually did it. We'd get to see just how many people are willing to haul vs the numbers looking to kill the haulers.

Could be rather amusing to watch.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

The question is, how many others? This would remain to be seen. The less haulers there are in general vs the number of gank...erm.. i mean PvPers, the harder it will be for the haulers to do their job.

Like i said in the other thread, this is one reason why i'd be interested to watch if FD actually did it. We'd get to see just how many people are willing to haul vs the numbers looking to kill the haulers.

Could be rather amusing to watch.

Let's try it out and we'll see. I'm not saying it's gonna be perfect. But you're implying it's gonna be a disaster. That's the difference.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They've got the BGS and any other game mechanic. The Open Play community has nothing. So you want all the game for yourself? Nothing left to us?

Yeah, we already dicussed this back and forth in the other thread. Please, stop implying i want anything like you are saying.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Yeah, we already dicussed this back and forth in the other thread. Please, stop implying i want anything like you are saying.

Well, you don't want Open Only Powerplay, you kept proposing something totally PvP focused as an alternative all the time. You should probably first of all understand what you want things to be, before to simply tell people what they shoudln't have.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Let's try it out and we'll see. I'm not saying it's gonna be perfect. But you're implying it's gonna be a disaster. That's the difference.

Well, its not like either of us can make it happen or stop it happening. FD have their own ideas, you must know that by now.

I think its going to funny, and very possibly a disaster, but hey, its just my opinion, doesn't make it fact

 

[Bard Voronwe]

Well, its not like either of us can make it happen or stop it happening. FD have their own ideas, you must know that by now.

I think its going to funny, and very possibly a disaster, but hey, its just my opinion, doesn't make it fact

Yup, but at least my proposal is something based on evidence, common knowledge by people actually doing Powerplay right now, your opinion is just some "no open only game mechanic" crusade.

Another great difference.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well, you don't want Open Only Powerplay, you kept proposing something totally PvP focused as an alternative all the time. You should probably first of all understand what you want things to be, before to simply tell people what they shoudln't have.

We discussed this already a dozen times and got nowhere. Let's not go down this road again.

I've never told anyone what they should or shouldn't have. Please, don't tell me what i should and shouldn't suggest. Cheers.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Yup, but at least my proposal is something based on evidence, common knowledge by people actually doing Powerplay right now, your opinion is just some "no open only game mechanic" crusade.

Another great difference.

You have zero evidence of what would happen if it went open only. Only opinion and conjecture. Same here. Please don't dismiss my opinion and try and make your statements fact.

What will happen if it goes open only is totally unknowable.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

You have zero evidence of what would happen if it went open only. Only opinion and conjecture. Same here. Please don't dismiss my opinion and try and make your statements fact.

What will happen if it goes open only is totally unknowable.

So it's not gonna be the disaster you're implying either.
Then we at least should try and see what happens.
Because it's gonna be a new game mechanic that will be made a success or a disaster by the players.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

So it's not gonna be the disaster you're implying either.

It might be a complete disaster. It might be a great success as well.

Would be great if you could acknowledge that, rather than trying to dismiss the possiblity of it being a bad move.

I know you want it to happen, and that's fine, but assuming everything will work out for the best is risking setting yourself up for dissapointment. Even more so since the chance of FD making Open Only is pretty slim considering the history of it.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

It might be a complete disaster. It might be a great success as well.

Would be great if you could acknowledge that, rather than trying to dismiss the possiblity of it being a bad move.

I know you want it to happen, and that's fine, but assuming everything will work out for the best is risking setting yourself up for dissapointment. Even more so since the chance of FD making Open Only is pretty slim considering the history of it.

Never did so. But you've got to give a chance to things to be tested. There's people fighting so hard to deny Open Only Powerplay that chance. You too are doing so, sadly.

 

[Rubbernuke]

You have zero evidence of what would happen if it went open only. Only opinion and conjecture. Same here. Please don't dismiss my opinion and try and make your statements fact.

What will happen if it goes open only is totally unknowable.

Actually a number of times its been possible to see what open PP would be like. The last Kumo attack on Utopia had patrols trying to intercept Kumo raiders, identifying undermining patterns and scrambling support, you had Winters epic C 146 battle in Capo- it happens all over in small pockets. Imagine if this was going on all the time? Suddenly Powerplay would not be an expensive clunky BGS with faces. It would be something totally new and different to everything in ED.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Actually a number of times its been possible to see what open PP would be like. The last Kumo attack on Utopia had patrols trying to intercept Kumo raiders, identifying undermining patterns and scrambling support, you had Winters epic C 146 battle in Capo- it happens all over in small pockets. Imagine if this was going on all the time? Suddenly Powerplay would not be an expensive clunky BGS with faces. It would be something totally new and different to everything in ED.

It shows what can happen between the open players under the current system. I'm sure you'd get some good stuff going on as well under an open only system as well. I'm not saying people can't have fun situations with PP as it is or if it went open only. You're showing what can happen with PvP scenarios.

The question i keep raising is what will happen on a large scale, especially in relation to the numbers of people hauling, especially if they find themselves facing a lot more and deadly opposition.

Will they git gud and become experts at evading the opposition? Will lots of people sign up to do PP hauling in the face of opposition? Or, will lots of people drop PP hauling because its simply a giant pain in the rear end.

As noted, some people will haul in the face of opposition and even enjoy it. I do think that's a minority.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Never did so. But you've got to give a chance to things to be tested. There's people fighting so hard to deny Open Only Powerplay that chance. You too are doing so, sadly.

I don't have to give anything a chance to be tested, its not my decision. I express my opinion, as you do. I have no power over FD, sorry if I misled you into thinking that I do.

 

[Bard Voronwe]

I don't have to give anything a chance to be tested, its not my decision. I express my opinion, as you do. I have no power over FD, sorry if I misled you into thinking that I do.

But you wouldn't if it were for you, didn't you? So you're fighting so hard to make the Developers think that their playerbase is totally against any kind of Open Only game mechanic.

What I want you to understand is that people in here is asking for something to be added, you're basically asking for that thing to never ever happen because apparently that would be terrible for your way to play the game. Propositive feedback vs "No I think you shouldn't have that because it's gonna be a disaster".

Let's try it out.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

On topic, will open only stop bots?

No, i don't think so, at least not directly. Bots will continue to do their stuff, and people diverting their attention to the bots will provide gaps for the player haulers. The bots will respawn and continue, and bots can work 24/7. If the bot epedemic is as bad as people think, then there is no way players can compete or take them down enough to matter.

What it would help with is identifying bots. It will take some time, and there would be false positives, so ulimately it rely on reporting to FD.

At this point it depends on your belief in FD to handle such reports. If, like Rinzler, you believe FD are unwilling or incapable of taking action against such accounts, then open only is not a solution to the problem, as nothing will happen to those accounts anyway. At worst they get a slap and a few days ban, and hey, they can always pick up a few more accounts in a sale to run the bots on.

If you believe FD do and will take action against such accounts, then open only will be a possible solution to botting.

 

[Rubbernuke]

It shows what can happen between the open players under the current system. I'm sure you'd get some good stuff going on as well under an open only system as well. I'm not saying people can't have fun situations with PP as it is or if it went open only. You're showing what can happen with PvP scenarios.

The question i keep raising is what will happen on a large scale, especially in relation to the numbers of people hauling, especially if they find themselves facing a lot more and deadly opposition.

Will they git gud and become experts at evading the opposition? Will lots of people sign up to do PP hauling in the face of opposition? Or, will lots of people drop PP hauling because its simply a giant pain in the rear end.

As noted, some people will haul in the face of opposition and even enjoy it. I do think that's a minority.

Like I said before lots of times, in an open situation the hauler would be the most valuable asset in play, as without them powers (especially large ones) would turmoil almost straight away. This is an ideal brake on expansion, as currently the galaxy is full due to easy dependable hauling. You also assume all haulers are T-9s bumbling along. In an open context you'll find players adapting to survive- my guess is you'll see faster ships with better internals and less cargo. You forget Sandros mega undermining idea too, where its a race between UM and fortifying. In these cases the defending power would have to fortify fast and protect everything they could.

The short of it is, Open Powerplay is about challenge. Unlike any other part of ED it would place an emphasis on real time skills in a combined week long campaign.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

But you wouldn't if it were for you, didn't you? So you're fighting so hard to make the Developers think that their playerbase is totally against any kind of Open Only game mechanic.

What I want you to understand is that people in here is asking for something to be added, you're basically asking for that thing to never ever happen because apparently that would be terrible for your way to play the game. Propositive feedback vs "No I think you shouldn't have that because it's gonna be a disaster".

Let's try it out.

Dude, really, read what you are writing. This thread is overwhelmingly in favour of open only as some sort of solution to the botting problem. I'm the only, or one of a few people saying open only might not be the solution people think it will be.

Assuming FD are even reading this, and care about opinions, then surely they will listen to the majority? Unless, of course, they find something compelling in the points i'm raising. But there again, you can be pretty sure that within FD they have had plenty of meetings over the years about powerplay, what they are going to do and what could be done, and every single point raised in these types of thread have already been long considered.

All we are doing here is debating amongst ourselves.

However, if i do discover that I do have some power to influence FD, you can be 100% certain i would totally abuse it