Add ALL Double eng. To tech broker or stop adding them

[varonica]

What exactly is your point here? That all pointless activities should be removed?

That's not what I said and you know it, you're just trolling now. The point was if you remove the original mechanic and mini-game the probes were designed to support what's the point of having multiple probes at all? They removed the bio scanning mini-game from the Alpha altogether for the same reason, once you remove the purpose of the mini-game the mini-game just becomes...nothing at all, why have it?

You DSS because you want to achieve something and it is the investment of time and effort that makes it an achievement, while crying that somebody else can shave a few seconds off the same non-competitive activity is just being jealous

Now you're blatantly trolling, I could care less what other people choose to do, you can stop using the DSS if you want, the point of the DSS was to provide a skill mechanic and reward for completing that mechanic, you are just removing the skill part and still collecting the reward, so why not just do what they did with the bio scanner in Alpha and remove it altogether and go back to the old one where you just had to target and sit there for a few seconds, it requires the same level of skill and removes the need for changing mode and saves considerably more time than making it so you can probe a 7 probe planet with 2 probes with an OP DSS.

You're the one wanting to render activities pointless and trolling when others point this out.

 

[WreckRoot]

That's not what I said and you know it, you're just trolling now. The point was if you remove the original mechanic and mini-game the probes were designed to support what's the point of having multiple probes at all? They removed the bio scanning mini-game from the Alpha altogether for the same reason, once you remove the purpose of the mini-game the mini-game just becomes...nothing at all, why have it?



Now you're blatantly trolling, I could care less what other people choose to do, you can stop using the DSS if you want, the point of the DSS was to provide a skill mechanic and reward for completing that mechanic, you are just removing the skill part and still collecting the reward, so why not just do what they did with the bio scanner in Alpha and remove it altogether and go back to the old one where you just had to target and sit there for a few seconds, it requires the same level of skill and removes the need for changing mode and saves considerably more time than making it so you can probe a 7 probe planet with 2 probes with an OP DSS.

You're the one wanting to render activities pointless and trolling when others point this out.

I'm not trolling, but I admit I am annoyed by the level of whine presented by this thread. It's literally: "I can't stand someone having something I can't have", no matter how insignificant that is. If any of the unique modules were actually gamebreaking to the point of providing a significant advantage in a competitive context, that would be a reasonable complaint, but they're absolutely not. It's just plain jealousy.

Literally the only viable argument here is the fact that the game incentivises long exploration trips across the galaxy. This makes surprise CGs with unique modules centered in the bubble a dirty move punishing players who decide to head out for a trip.

As for the OP DSS, frankly, I only have an issue with your argument, not the conclusion. If you were to say "DSS is crap, get rid of it" I would agree. It is a crap minigame, at least in the context of what you are most encouraged to DSS, which are typically worlds that take 6-7 probes. By just looking on the target count I immediately know where to click to get the world scanned with a bonus. Worse yet, the game takes 15 seconds and not 5 only because you have to wait for reload, not due to lack of expertise. That's just a waste of time.

However, you argue that DSS should be removed because the double-engineered DSS exists that makes it trivial. So your argument falls in line with that of this whole thread - "I don't like it cause someone has it easier", which is a line of thought I object to.

We have a case of "a broken clock is correct twice a day". Your argument is a broken clock that just happens to point the right hour, but it's still broken and thus unreliable and thus can't be relied upon

 

[Vetinari]

I'm not trolling

OK in that case I will reply and try again, coz it certainly seemed like it from your previous responses hence I didnt bother

but I admit I am annoyed by the level of whine presented by this thread

Hmmm, then perhaps dont read it, or dont reply with a huge whine and add to it

It's literally: "I can't stand someone having something I can't have",

Which is something usually associated with Pay To Win and something Frontier have never done and in fact said they will never do. Everything unique has been cosmetic until now. The Cobra iv is the exception and an accepted mistake by Frontier and again they said they would never do anything like that again.

Now they have, its that simple. Until and unless all are available in Tech Broker which I already addressed in my previous post.

 

[WreckRoot]

Hmmm, then perhaps dont read it, or dont reply with a huge whine and add to it

I replied with an objection, pointing out weak or false premises of the notion (some of) you are presenting. Just because you don't agree with my objection doesn't make it a whine. A whine is "a feeble or petulant complaint" which is what the arguments I'm countering are doing.

Which is something usually associated with Pay To Win

... which it isn't in the case of these double-engineered modules because
1. They aren't "Pay" because you're rewarded for participation, not money, unlike with Cobra mk4,
2. They aren't "To Win" because they do not give any significant advantage over other players for all the reasons I've mentioned.

So no, this "stop p2w!" outcry is unwarranted in this context and I'm pointing that out.

As I mentioned before, the only viable complaint about the double-engineered modules is that they punish players who do long-range exploration or decide to reside in the Colonia area. Both of these playstyles are perfectly legitimate so they should not be punished by surprise CGs with unique rewards in the bubble; they should have a chance to participate. Either announce the CGs ahead of time so they get a chance to plan ahead and take part OR provide some other means of participating in these CGs OR make the rewards brokered OR don't use unique rewards.

The existence of unique rewards that aren't OP is fine, as is their limited availability in time; selective rewarding of the active playerbase is not fine.

Which is actually all quite funny because the OP's core premise of the game becoming FOMO is actually legit - that's one of the main reasons I don't go out to explore far from the bubble, cause I'm afraid of missing out on some juicy CG rewards that I could otherwise grab. Sadly the thread also attracted bad arguments, which I targeted.

 

[CMDR Rabbit]

Quick question, do you frequently engage in PVP at all? Like, serious PVP, at Shinrarta? Just curious.

If you hadn't noticed though, FDEV has been phasing these dual engineered modules in slowly over time, which are unlocked via human tech brokers at stations. The novelty of this approach is appreciated by a wide number of players, myself included, who have no complaints over it at this time. The system is interesting, and adds some much needed spice into the stagnant meta of the outfitting screen through the release of some rather neat modules.

This system is in no way unique to Elite either. Collectible trading card games, such as Magic: The Gathering for instance, have what are known as promotional cards, or promotional art variants. These are released on a limited, and usually, temporally limited scale. And will sometimes be made available through a later release. Magic also features a whole host of rare and obscure oddities and collectibles from its 20+ year history, which add to the richness and organic feel of a personal individual's collection. And yet the only major barrier we find to new players is the game's learning curve.

This is beginning to turn into a wall of text, so I'll summarize, tl;dr:
If the modules are phased in over time, I fail to even understand what your argument is.

First part, no, i'm Elite's worst combat pilot and have very little interest in getting good. Just not my thing.

i don't know how balanced the grind cost is for the ones they've made available through the tech brokers, but as a solution the idea if making them available after some time and at a cost is, i think, reasonable.

The rest is exactly what i was saying in response to the OP, that if the double+ good modules are being made available after a time and at a cost (so as not to invalidate the time/effort of those who got them through the CG), that that is a reasonable solution.

The preamble about not phasing them in being a disincentive to newer players was more towards those who think that they should be rewarded exclusively through the CGs.

With maybe a lil salt that the super double+ good FSD was class 5 and too big for my little ship.

 

[Tetra Trash]

I don't see any problem with the CG modules so far. FD have shown skill in selecting modules which are interesting ideas but not game-changers. None of them have been must-haves so far, but they've been a good way to add interest in CGs for those who don't need the credits anymore.

I don't mind whether they continue to make them available or not. I think it's right that the material cost at a tech broker should represent the effort of getting into the top whatever-percent of a CG though.

Agree completely; I've missed several opportunities to earn modules that I would have liked from being out in the black for several months, but I'm fine with them being limited to CGs only. Tech broker unlock after the fact is nice but I'd be fine without it. I'd much rather see powerplay modules available at tech brokers than any of the double engineered units that have come out so far (actually it'd be really neat to see PP modules available via the black market or sold by FCs of pledged cmdrs!).

 

[DikbutDaGrate]

First part, no, i'm Elite's worst combat pilot and have very little interest in getting good. Just not my thing.

Then I fail to understand how you are qualified to argue on behalf of the PVP community. Furthermore, I would ask that you please refrain from doing so in the future.

I appreciate your honesty. And thank you.