Add better ships to the ARX shop

[Ant_Solo]

I am glad to see FDev looking at ways they can continue to support Elite, and my assumption is that the current round of additions to the ARX store that are planned are a test to prove they can generate income this way to justify the additional development time. I was a little taken back by the Python Mk2 early access to the ARC store, partly as I am a LEP, but if this works well and it leads to even more ships that has been announced then I see it as a net benefit.

I also like the 'guard rails' that have been added, specifically the new ship being early access rather than ARX shop exclusive, and (maybe I am presuming here) the pre-builds not being better than can be created in-game.

That said I think there is scope to sell for ARX far better ships than so far announced, and so I offer my PvE / PvP Federal Assault Ship Loud-out - I think this would make an excellent ship to sell, and more people should know how great this ship is. It is a very competent combat ship, and a huge amount of fun to fly. It isn't P2W as a fully kitted FDL with a pilot of the same skill will win the fight, and also everyone always tells me the Chieftain is better (although I disagree).

I also think the pre-builts should come with an exclusive (preferably good) skin.

 

[Northpin]

Nope.
I hope they never sell full G5 ships - basically nothing beyond the "jumpstart" level

 

[Ant_Solo]

Nope.
I hope they never sell full G5 ships - basically nothing beyond the "jumpstart" level

Why is that? The modules can't be moved between ships so that adds another restriction. I don't see what the issue is. If people buy good ships it may make them more interested in doing the work to build their own designs. If it gets more people playing and FDev earns money and then uses that money to invest in Elite then everyone wins.

There is a huge, almost insurmountable, barrier to entry for PvP at the moment. Before engineering there wasn't. This would not remove it but it would give an ability to try it out.

 

[Martind Forlon]

I think this would make an excellent ship to

Just a NO ... and luckily it looks like this is not a way which Frontier want to go. Beside it I count that post as clear trolling attempt

 

[Screemonster]

Absolutely not and I would hope that any pvp organisation would gank these builds on sight.

 

[Ant_Solo]

Still interested to understand why you are not keen on the idea. As they hasn't been a reason given the best I can guess is that you don't like the idea of other people shortcutting the hard work that you hsve put in to building and engineering ships. Tbh, I do have some sympathy for that view but I think it is shortsighted, and it shouldn't matter. It will remain that the only way to get the flexabilty of loudout is to go through the full process, this just gets people who haven't done the work the chance to experience it.

 

[Screemonster]

The only good thing that will come out of selling completely finished ships for real money is the insane tantrums that will result when people with zero flying experience pay to win and do not subsequently win. Which is funny as hell when it happens in star citizen, I'll admit.

 

[aRJay]

Still interested to understand why you are not keen on the idea. As they hasn't been a reason given the best I can guess is that you don't like the idea of other people shortcutting the hard work that you hsve put in to building and engineering ships. Tbh, I do have some sympathy for that view but I think it is shortsighted, and it shouldn't matter. It will remain that the only way to get the flexabilty of loudout is to go through the full process, this just gets people who haven't done the work the chance to experience it.

1. What’s to like about someone buying something off the shelf that has taken you years to obtain.
2. Elite isn’t an arcade game even if all you do is PvP.
3. If they can buy the results why will they bother learning the process.

If the idea is just to give them an experience of what a fully worked ship is like then sell that experience, as an optional extra when you buy the game you can buy as a one off a time limited fully engineered ship for a particular role that when the time is up goes bang.

 

[Screemonster]

If they can buy the results why will they bother learning the process.

It's worse than that imo.

Of all the people from other communities that I've flown with who have got curious about giving the game a go, the grind has been the number one reason for them to give up and burn out - and probably the biggest factor was when they showed up to a medium CZ in medium, decently-outfitted and moderately engineered ships, then got shredded when the spec ops turned up: When they get the impression that the "medium" content of the game is something you can't tackle without an endgame build, it put them off. That is the part that needs to be remedied - even making the engineering grind easier would be a bandaid on the fact that NPCs are bulletsponges and the challenging ones are tuned to players that are bulletsponges.

I went on a wing assassination with someone, content that I'd normally do solo, and I was hard pressed to keep them alive. I spent more of my time trying to pull aggro off them so they wouldn't die instantly than actually specifically focusing the target, and the worst part of this is that the original wing assassination missions didn't suffer from this problem! The original "here is one tough big ship and half a dozen unengineered escorts" scenario at the very launch of wing missions was great for a wing of less powerful players to tackle, since they could just focus on mopping up the escorts while another person kept the leader busy, then they could all focus it down at once - and it was still challenging for a solo in a G5 ship since all those unengineered targets focusing you at once could still put out a hell of a lot of damage if you didn't split them up.
Now, it's a fer-de-lance and some number of vultures every time, so a weaker/newer wing member flying with a stronger wingmate is left feeling helpless since even the escorts are more than a match for them.

Add in real-money finished ships rather than fixing these issues and people are going to feel like their only option to take part in this content is to open their wallets.

And that's not even getting into the other part of this - for me, the_best part_ of the early game was the extremely rapid progression. It felt like everything I did was making more ships available, more modules, more engineers, more improvements, I had stuff to do and everything I did made me a more and more potent force. I'd buy new ships, try new guns, see little improvements and keep them. It was very engaging.

Dump a finished G5 ship in my lap though? And all those little unlocks would just turn into "here's yet another thing that's not as good as the thing you already have" and the sheer enormity of the cliff face between me and getting something that exceeds the thing that's already in my possession would seem insurmountable and offputting, all my attempts at outfitting something would just give me a worse ship than the existing one, and I'd likely end up feeling stuck in that ship until I got sick of it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

There is a huge, almost insurmountable, barrier to entry for PvP at the moment. Before engineering there wasn't. This would not remove it but it would give an ability to try it out.

FD created that problem and you want them to sell you the solution?

 

[Martind Forlon]

One of the problems is, that now players want all overnight. There’s tons of activities which are perfectly doable in weak ships and which allow player to become ship pilot before rushing into combat … this imo should be main Frontier focus, because flying of spaceship in huge universe is imo the main selling point of ED. From latest changes imo SCO drives are perfect example how to make ED more interesting to new players … just saying.

Next to it lvl of npcs coming after player is related to his rank, so trying to show new players combat in your high lvled cmdr ship is therefore a bad idea, and wing assassinations is one from the worst choices.

 

[varonica]

Well that didn't take long, lets get some ship JPG's up while we are at it!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

and probably the biggest factor was when they showed up to a medium CZ

Inconsistent labelling of difficulty is definitely a really big problem here, too.

A medium RES, a medium space CZ, a medium foot CZ, a bunch of medium-difficulty scavengers, and a signal source with a "middle of the numbers you're likely to see" threat level are so massively different in terms of challenge as to make "try it and find out" about the only practical way.

It's fine for a medium space CZ to be end-game content which gives my fully-engineered combat ship a workout (and a high one something I'd only bother with in a wing because otherwise I'll be synthesising ammo mid-fight). But they should be clearly indicated as such and not just in a "well, obviously everyone who's played for 1000 hours knows that" way.

and the worst part of this is that the original wing assassination missions didn't suffer from this problem

Lack of range of size of missions is really a problem. If I want to fly a Cobra III or similar for a bit, I'm basically shut out of doing cargo missions (or at the very least, they're going to be multiple-run slogs) because every single cargo mission is approaching or above 100t at a time. Why not have some lower-paid 10t and 20t missions on the board as well - if I'm in a small ship I can take them, if I'm in a medium ship I can see if I can stack them, or take one and fill the rest of the hold from the market.

And similarly, why not have some "wing" assassination missions which are an Expert-ranked T10 and a bunch of Mostly Harmless eagles. Sure, an experienced player could walk over them alone (that's why the mission wouldn't pay very much) but a few beginners in an Asp, a Vulture and a Viper III can have a good time.

 

[angusmadmac1]

Why is everyone in such a rush to get a G5 engineered ship? The idea is that as you progress in the game you learn about the game . Ok it's gotten easier in the last few years with making money and engineering changes . Enjoy the journey .
I've played since 2016 took me over 6 months to get a python 3 years to get triple and went through the "old engineering" . Enjoy the game there is no rush no endgame . Any arx ship should not have engineering that hasn't been unlocked and no guardian stuff because the game loop is some of the best Fdev have done . Ok the grind is a bit bleh and unnecessary.
Enjoy the game don't look for shortcuts

 

[Ant_Solo]

FD created that problem and you want them to sell you the solution?

Well this isn't for me, I already own that ship (although I would probably buy another one anyway). Obviously I would like the engineering process to be less punative, but this isn't about that.

What this is about is FDev finding a way to earn more money from Elite so that there is a good buisness case to continue investing dev time in it.

If selling ship skins and other cosmetics generated enough income they would have created more ships long ago. They are clearly trying new things with early acces and these pre-builts.

For me as long as they don't sell for real money things that can't be gained in game, and they don't add additional inertia to gaining those in-game items to encourage spending real money I am ok with it. All on the understanding that the other side of the equation is more Dev work going in.

I also think it shouldn't be contriversal to say thay they should sell good things, rather than poor things, in the shop. Especially as people are using real money. Although I can see that it is.

 

[Ant_Solo]

The only good thing that will come out of selling completely finished ships for real money is the insane tantrums that will result when people with zero flying experience pay to win and do not subsequently win. Which is funny as hell when it happens in star citizen, I'll admit.

Given that we already have that from people with hundreds or even thousands of hours in the game I am not sure we should consider it a limiting factor.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Well this isn't for me, I already own that ship (although I would probably buy another one anyway). Obviously I would like the engineering process to be less punative, but this isn't about that.

What this is about is FDev finding a way to earn more money from Elite so that there is a good buisness case to continue investing dev time in it.

If selling ship skins and other cosmetics brought in enough income they would have created more ships long ago. They are clearly trying new things with early acces and these pre-builts.

For me as long as they don't sell for real money things that can't be gained in game, and they don't add additional inertia to gaining those in-game items to encourage spending real money I am ok with it. All on the understanding that the other side of the equation is more Dev work going in.

There are plenty of ways for FD to make more money from the game without selling ships for real world money.

Python Mk II & Updates To The Gamestore

nah, it looks that it's a large and is far behind the cockpit, between the two large on the sides, maybe slightly behind them Besides hardpoints, I was just wondering how they'd balance internals to give her more speed, agility and so on, as imho only an FdL-Python hybrid would make a PM2...

forums.frontier.co.uk

Think about how many people would pay good money for a FAS ship kit vs how many are likely to spend money on a ship they could make themselves in the game for in game credits and time.

I also think it shouldn't be contriversal to say thay they should sell good things, rather than poor things, in the shop. Especially as people are using real money. Although I can see that it is.

You might think its not controversial, some people do.

Paying real world money for in-game things that affect gameplay is not something we as consumers should be encouraging.

 

[Ant_Solo]

Paying real world money for in-game things that affect gameplay is not something we as consumers should be encouraging.

As long as it is really optional, then I don't see what the problem is and, so far, that point of view hasn't been explained here. It is just stated as an opinion and not backed up.

I agree that it is controversial here, I just don't think it should be.

Your idea about ship kits - FDev not making ship kits from those ships suggests that either the existing ones were not bringing enough income to justify the time and effort or FDev are financially illiterate.

Some of your other ideas look ok to me, I'm not sure they will be significant earners but I think it is a positive approach and I like it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

As long as it is really optional, then I don't see what the problem is

That is abundantly clear.

 

[DYSEQTA]

If selling ship skins and other cosmetics generated enough income they would have created more ships long ago. They are clearly trying new things with early acces and these pre-builts.

Perhaps if the stuff you could buy was worth buying people would buy it. Here is a single example:

Why would anyone want to spend money to buy that? There are like another 5 of those just in different colours in case this isn't enough for you.

The majority of stuff in the store is like this. Garbage that no wants. No surprise that, apparently, no one buys them. That's not the store's fault nor is it the customer's fault.