Ships Advice on engineering my Chieftain

[Slange Lands]

Update:
Meh. I'm really rubbish at fighting with "advanced" loadouts. When I fit most slots with fixed weapons - even fixed Beams which should be easiest to use - I have real trouble hitting small ships at all, let alone landing enough shots to kill them.
Also, using Small Fixed Beams and Large PAs opens the new circumstance that I can only use one set at a time, bc one is hitscan and the other slow projectiles requiring a lot of lead. So, it is generally a dumb idea to outfit both fire groups as Fixed, and it would be better to use Gimballed lasers in conjunction with PAs?

Remember to do only what is fun for you.

I have experience with gimballed weapons only with the FDL, not the Chieftain. With the FDL I used 4 medium gimballed mcs and one huge PA or one huge efficient Fixed Beam either Thermal Vent or Thermal Conduit.

I did try fixed large rapid fire mcs on the Chieftain but the spin up was too slow for me. Maybe that is not the case for you.

I bet the Chieftain would shine with gimballed frags and small fixed beams or small long range rails. Not sure though.

o7

 

[tolm]

My PvE Chief has C6 BiWeaves with Thermal Resist / Fast Charge, 1x Kinetic Booster and 3x Resistance Boosters plus a couple of Guardian Shield Reinforcements for about 900MJ with 60%+ resists across the board.

Rest of the internals are HRPs save for one C4 Guardian Module Reinforcement. HRPs are all Heavy Duty save one Thermal Resist to offset the Reactive Surface Composite armour - which is also Heavy Duty engineered. Haven’t got around to Deep Plating any of ‘em yet.

Weapon wise, I have 1xC2 and 2xC1 Long Range Beams with Thermal Vent. Keeps the canopy icy! Plus 2x C3 MultiCannon with Overcharged and AutoLoader and 1x C1 with High Capacity and Corrosive. G2 seems to be enough on the capacity to ensure it doesn’t run out before the C3s do.

All weps are gimballed. I can use fixed - I do like both rails and PAs - but I hate having to fly directly at the enemy! I much prefer being able to use the gimbals to point my ship behind them when dogfighting, allowing better positional advantage.

The usual G5 Dirty Drives and G5 Charge Enhanced Power Dist of course and either A-Grade or D-Grade sensors with Long Range. I forget which.

 

[Kayvan]

Alright, after tonight's bounty hunt I'm a bit reassured. This time I used 2 effPAs, 1 small CorrMC and the rest gimballed efficient Beams. Worked reasonably well, though I only managed to get 15 kills out of the 100 PA shots. But some of the targets were big buggers like Deadly Condas.

Previously I also used Long Range Vent lasers but being also gimballed they weren't as reliable -- I think LR really benefits from Fixed. Now comparing some charts I figured out that my (gimballed) EffBeams are more effective than LR up to about 1600 metres, so as long as I maintain a closer distance than that I come out on top (and save power and heat to boot). So far no EE on the new lasers, still making up my mind.

Oh and then when checking my mods I discovered that my PD is only engineered to G3, so that will have to be remedied soon.

I bet the Chieftain would shine with gimballed frags and small fixed beams or small long range rails. Not sure though.

I only tried out frags once and did absolutely no damage with them due to the huge spread. However, I'm currently pledged to Hudson bc I heard great things about Pacifiers, so in about 3 weeks I should have them. One reason why I'm using PAs rn is to practice slow-bullet fixed firing for the Pacs. ^^ After theorycrafting on Coriolis a bit, the best upgrade for Pacs actually seems to be High Cap G5 /w Screening Shell -- compared to Double Shot or OC it's somewhat lower Alpha, but about the same Sustain with twice the endurance.
Well, we'll see. ^^

 

[moolas]

Try FA off, then boost+thrusters and joust to fire PAs.

You can easily fly around elite Anaconda/Corvette and kill them fast with taking minimal or almost no damage.

 

[Kayvan]

Update:
I have come to the conclusion that with the double PAs, I only get the best results when flying in Wing, because then we can outmaneuver the opponents better and focus fire. But when I fly solo the PAs aren't very efficient, prolly bc the enemy only needs to pay attention to me and dodge my shots (and I miss a lot anyway).

Conversely, I have refined my solo loadout to the following: 2 Large gimb. MCs / OC / Autoloader, 1 Small gimb MC HighCap/Corrosive, 1 Med Eff Beam/Vent, 2 Small Eff Beams.
With this I am much faster in the RES than with the Plasmas and get more kills out of one Ammo supply, even though the theoretical DPS is virtually the same.
In particular I'm very pleased with the Autoloader EE, no more reload breaks at the most unopportune moments. ^^

Another benefit of the MC/Laser loadout is that power draw and heat generation are much lower. I get away with less energy to Weapons, leaving more available for Engine, and then it works pretty well with the boosting and circling.

Admittedly this loadout is a bit weak against SCB builds, but you can't have everything I guess.

 

[Viscera]

Update:
I have come to the conclusion that with the double PAs, I only get the best results when flying in Wing, because then we can outmaneuver the opponents better and focus fire. But when I fly solo the PAs aren't very efficient, prolly bc the enemy only needs to pay attention to me and dodge my shots (and I miss a lot anyway).

Conversely, I have refined my solo loadout to the following: 2 Large gimb. MCs / OC / Autoloader, 1 Small gimb MC HighCap/Corrosive, 1 Med Eff Beam/Vent, 2 Small Eff Beams.
With this I am much faster in the RES than with the Plasmas and get more kills out of one Ammo supply, even though the theoretical DPS is virtually the same.
In particular I'm very pleased with the Autoloader EE, no more reload breaks at the most unopportune moments. ^^

Another benefit of the MC/Laser loadout is that power draw and heat generation are much lower. I get away with less energy to Weapons, leaving more available for Engine, and then it works pretty well with the boosting and circling.

Admittedly this loadout is a bit weak against SCB builds, but you can't have everything I guess.

Good to see someone experimenting and finding out what works for them.

I have an all gimbal laser chieftain, with just one med multi for corrosive. Its great for cz work, and bounty hunting.

Took me ages to get this build just right for how I fly, and others would look at it and goggle, but it was built for me to fly, and it works.

 

[tolm]

Update:
I have come to the conclusion that with the double PAs, I only get the best results when flying in Wing, because then we can outmaneuver the opponents better and focus fire. But when I fly solo the PAs aren't very efficient, prolly bc the enemy only needs to pay attention to me and dodge my shots (and I miss a lot anyway).

Conversely, I have refined my solo loadout to the following: 2 Large gimb. MCs / OC / Autoloader, 1 Small gimb MC HighCap/Corrosive, 1 Med Eff Beam/Vent, 2 Small Eff Beams.
With this I am much faster in the RES than with the Plasmas and get more kills out of one Ammo supply, even though the theoretical DPS is virtually the same.
In particular I'm very pleased with the Autoloader EE, no more reload breaks at the most unopportune moments. ^^

Another benefit of the MC/Laser loadout is that power draw and heat generation are much lower. I get away with less energy to Weapons, leaving more available for Engine, and then it works pretty well with the boosting and circling.

Admittedly this loadout is a bit weak against SCB builds, but you can't have everything I guess.

That's almost exactly my build except I use Long Range / Thermal Vent on the beams which is a little better at stripping shields (you can start hitting 'em from further away) and pretty much keeps the ship under 2% heat if you can keep hitting stuff. Is a little harder on the Distro, though.

 

[Kayvan]

Oh right, that's another potential effect -- I've been running an OC5 PP and it's got a relatively high resting heat despite Thermal Spread; I basically couldn't fight at compromised Navs with the PAs bc it would overheat so fast. Now with the MC/Beam outfit, power requirements have dropped so much I might get away with an Armoured PP.

I used to run LR lasers and being able to engage at 3+ km is nice, but the hit rate for gimballed seemed to be lacking and the DPS break even point is around 1.6km.

Admittedly a downside is the susceptibility to Chaff -- gotta say that was pretty satisfying with the PAs, to see they're chaffing and not care about it. xD But I can just keep firing the lasers and hope for stray hits, and otherwise use the time to recharge myself.

Oh btw I also used to run an SCB which was probably silly. Now I put in another GSB which draws less power and doesn't cause heat issues or run out of charges. Managed 27 kills last night in Haz (with 1 ammo load) without losing my shields once.

 

[Homerzilla]

Oh wow. I just watched the "meta chieftain" vid, and the build is so very different from mine, if I wanted to replicate it I'd better get a second Chieftain. XD The only thing that's identical is the Dirty Drag Drives.

Since my Chief is "optimized" (if that) for PvE / Bounty Hunting, I put more emphasis on Shields, less on armour and have an actually usable jump drive, for starters.
Downside is that I had to OC my PP bc Armored doesn't give me enough power.

FWIW my shield setup is:
Bi-Weave / Thermal / Fast Charge
Class 5 Guardian SB
Class 4 SCB
4 Shield Boosters (1 Heavy Duty, 3 Res Augment)

For Armour I use Lightweight Military with 1 Hull and 2 Module RPs. But basically if my shields drop in a RES/CZ, something has already gone wrong.

Still this "meta" build looks attractive for the Long and Short range options and the punch it packs. 200 theoretical DPS, that's more than twice of mine.
A theoretical build I put together gets beyond 300dps but only at very short range (600m) with no LR option.

I dumped one SBooster for a Wanted scanner glued to the beams key (2 sec for a fast scan) - the trade-off for slightly reduced shields is 2x more credits in bounties.

 

[Homerzilla]

That's almost exactly my build except I use Long Range / Thermal Vent on the beams which is a little better at stripping shields (you can start hitting 'em from further away) and pretty much keeps the ship under 2% heat if you can keep hitting stuff. Is a little harder on the Distro, though.

Yup, that work a lot better than plasma or rails - not only you can strip the shields from 6km BUT at 6km you still hit them with full power beams - a thing peoples tend to forget is any beam who is not modded for LR lose a lot of damage after 800-1000m .... I put on mine beams with TV and all the rest OC frags - strip the shields from distance and when target is close usually 2-3 shots from frags pop the hull. I have tons of fun with this build, nothing compare to frags when it comes to raw damage in the shortest time.

 

[Ander_Wand]

Update:
Conversely, I have refined my solo loadout to the following: 2 Large gimb. MCs / OC / Autoloader, 1 Small gimb MC HighCap/Corrosive, 1 Med Eff Beam/Vent, 2 Small Eff Beams.
With this I am much faster in the RES than with the Plasmas and get more kills out of one Ammo supply, even though the theoretical DPS is virtually the same.
In particular I'm very pleased with the Autoloader EE, no more reload breaks at the most unopportune moments. ^^
Another benefit of the MC/Laser loadout is that power draw and heat generation are much lower. I get away with less energy to Weapons, leaving more available for Engine, and then it works pretty well with the boosting and circling.
Admittedly this loadout is a bit weak against SCB builds, but you can't have everything I guess.

I find it a little amusing to see how you arrived at basically the exact loadout I have found works best for me. Large OC Autoloader MC are just epic. Also, like somebody said, I use three small long range/ thermal vent beams.
Those SCB spamming NPC prove to be quite a problem for this build though, takes forever to kill them.
What Combat rank are you at? I see them more and more and it looks like this setup will eventually become inefficient with higher combat ranking.

 

[Ander_Wand]

I have experience with gimballed weapons only with the FDL, not the Chieftain. With the FDL I used 4 medium gimballed mcs and one huge PA or one huge efficient Fixed Beam either Thermal Vent or Thermal Conduit.
I did try fixed large rapid fire mcs on the Chieftain but the spin up was too slow for me. Maybe that is not the case for you.

Have you tried a huge MC on the FDL yet? Pretty awesome as well, as it hits hard and has no spin-up time like the other MC's.

 

[Slange Lands]

Have you tried a huge MC on the FDL yet? Pretty awesome as well, as it hits hard and has no spin-up time like the other MC's.

Yes. The huge MC on the FDL is awesome. That's why the spin up time on the size 3 makes me scream. The builds below use huge MCs and are often used in PvP:

newer meta 2020:
1 huge MC corrosive, 3 srb rail guns super pen, 1 srb rail feedback cascade (can substitute lr rail feedback cascade)

Dutchman:
1 huge MC corrosive and four medium plasma accelerators ( mostly thermal conduit and a tlb). I usually use a mix of overcharged and efficient to procc the thermal conduit more often

 

[Kayvan]

I find it a little amusing to see how you arrived at basically the exact loadout I have found works best for me. Large OC Autoloader MC are just epic. Also, like somebody said, I use three small long range/ thermal vent beams.
Those SCB spamming NPC prove to be quite a problem for this build though, takes forever to kill them.
What Combat rank are you at? I see them more and more and it looks like this setup will eventually become inefficient with higher combat ranking.

Hmmmh, I might have to check out the LRs again and see how they do in direct comparison.
Currently I'm at Master, about 73% of the road to Dangerous. Got some SCB enemies last night but fortunately not too many. Basically in a Haz I get everything vom Novice Eagles to Elite Anacondas (the latter rather sparingly). What annoys me is when sth like a wing of 1 high-level Conda and 2 Challengers spawns when I'm solo; no good tackling those.
ANYWAY that might explain why I feel I'm doing better with the PAs in Wing -- one of my regular wingmen is Deadly, so he probably spawns a lot more of the harder builds. And against those, the high alpha and absolute dmg of the plasmas will be more effective.

In a couple of weeks I'm gonna get those Pacifiers though -- then I'll experiment with those extensively. ^^

 

[Ander_Wand]

Yes. The huge MC on the FDL is awesome. That's why the spin up time on the size 3 makes me scream. The builds below use huge MCs and are often used in PvP:
newer meta 2020:
1 huge MC corrosive, 3 srb rail guns super pen, 1 srb rail feedback cascade (can substitute lr rail feedback cascade)
Dutchman:
1 huge MC corrosive and four medium plasma accelerators ( mostly thermal conduit and a tlb). I usually use a mix of overcharged and efficient to procc the thermal conduit more often

The huge MC has a serious gun-boat appeal to it. Would really like to put it on other ships as well.
I was wondering the other day if not two instead of just one feedback cascade would yield better results (in PVE context that is) as you still have to hit several times to cancel the bank fully. Worth forgoing one super penetrator for that?

 

[Ander_Wand]

Hmmmh, I might have to check out the LRs again and see how they do in direct comparison.
Currently I'm at Master, about 73% of the road to Dangerous. Got some SCB enemies last night but fortunately not too many. Basically in a Haz I get everything vom Novice Eagles to Elite Anacondas (the latter rather sparingly). What annoys me is when sth like a wing of 1 high-level Conda and 2 Challengers spawns when I'm solo; no good tackling those.
ANYWAY that might explain why I feel I'm doing better with the PAs in Wing -- one of my regular wingmen is Deadly, so he probably spawns a lot more of the harder builds. And against those, the high alpha and absolute dmg of the plasmas will be more effective.
In a couple of weeks I'm gonna get those Pacifiers though -- then I'll experiment with those extensively. ^^

I think Long Range beats Efficient any day, if your ship can handle it. Specially in Haz Res wingfights it is nice to 'tag' targets at longer range for full damage. But I no pro at this at all, mind you.
3x Thermal Vent might be a bit of an overkill, but as good cooling reduces PD-draw, you can fire all mc AND the three beems simultaneously for extended periods without overheating issues and quite low PD consumption.
And the all-guns-blazing experience is also quite nice.

Yeah, I also reached master recently, and that is when the SCB spamming issue seemed to start for me. Also the reason why I am now venturing into advanced weapons territory like Rail Guns. PA's are next on the agenda.

 

[Slange Lands]

The huge MC has a serious gun-boat appeal to it. Would really like to put it on other ships as well.
I was wondering the other day if not two instead of just one feedback cascade would yield better results (in PVE context that is) as you still have to hit several times to cancel the bank fully. Worth forgoing one super penetrator for that?

That's a question for a real theory crafter person (not me). In general, I have found 1 feedback cascade enough for PvE. I do mostly czs and the spec ops and big ships are cancelled easily enough with one feedback, used repeatedly. In PvP, however, the combination of engineered SCBS, humans and say huge ships like Vettes and Cutters, might very well call for two feedback if solo.

I don't do organic anymore, but if I got pulled by a PvP vette or cutter in my pvp FDL, I hightailed it out of there asap.

 

[Kayvan]

It's a bit offtopic in this thread, but since I'm slowly outfitting a FDL anyway:

Yes. The huge MC on the FDL is awesome. That's why the spin up time on the size 3 makes me scream. The builds below use huge MCs and are often used in PvP:

newer meta 2020:
1 huge MC corrosive, 3 srb rail guns super pen, 1 srb rail feedback cascade (can substitute lr rail feedback cascade)

Dutchman:
1 huge MC corrosive and four medium plasma accelerators ( mostly thermal conduit and a tlb). I usually use a mix of overcharged and efficient to procc the thermal conduit more often

What main engineering mod do you recommend for the huge MC? I guess I read about Overcharged mostly, but I'm wondering if Short Range isn't the better deal. I mean, at >2km I don't expect to hit with a Multi anyway; within its range envelope it does more damage than OC, it's easier on the distro and the heat still isn't a big deal compared to lasers.

Either way I'm considering to mod it with Autoloader and combine it with a hi-cap Corrosive MC in one of the medium slots, as not to sacrifice so much ammo on the Huge. (Keep in mind this is still for PVE). Might even undersize and go for a Small MC to avoid hassle with the spinup time.

 

[Homerzilla]

It's a bit offtopic in this thread, but since I'm slowly outfitting a FDL anyway:



What main engineering mod do you recommend for the huge MC? I guess I read about Overcharged mostly, but I'm wondering if Short Range isn't the better deal. I mean, at >2km I don't expect to hit with a Multi anyway; within its range envelope it does more damage than OC, it's easier on the distro and the heat still isn't a big deal compared to lasers.

Either way I'm considering to mod it with Autoloader and combine it with a hi-cap Corrosive MC in one of the medium slots, as not to sacrifice so much ammo on the Huge. (Keep in mind this is still for PVE). Might even undersize and go for a Small MC to avoid hassle with the spinup time.

You will get a lot more damage/sec if you switch the MC to a huge frag, if you love to engage at short range, like I do. Add an autoloader if you wish OR, better, a mod for ammo.
Since the frag RoF is much slower than the MC, you will enjoy a lot more time on CZ than with an MC. When I used MC.s in my FdL I was forced a synth each 10 min or less, but after I switched at frags, I can run just one ammo sector some 30min easy, before to use a synth for ammo ! A nice surprise for me, but make sense, since you only need 2-3 shots on the target to pop a hull. Just see the damage a huge frag cannon do per shot.... Medium ships pop in 2-3 hits only, if you strip their shields with beams , and a Conda usually won't last more than 20-30 sec ... ( PvE).

 

[Slange Lands]

It's a bit offtopic in this thread, but since I'm slowly outfitting a FDL anyway:



What main engineering mod do you recommend for the huge MC? I guess I read about Overcharged mostly, but I'm wondering if Short Range isn't the better deal. I mean, at >2km I don't expect to hit with a Multi anyway; within its range envelope it does more damage than OC, it's easier on the distro and the heat still isn't a big deal compared to lasers.

Either way I'm considering to mod it with Autoloader and combine it with a hi-cap Corrosive MC in one of the medium slots, as not to sacrifice so much ammo on the Huge. (Keep in mind this is still for PVE). Might even undersize and go for a Small MC to avoid hassle with the spinup time.

I usually use Overcharged. I do have a short range gimballed set I used to use, but I think I decided to go with overcharged because of the damage drop off of the short range. Someone else might know better.

Its great to use short range weapons because range control becomes overwhelmingly important. In fact range control is the key to using PAs. The best can stay easily within 1km of me for long periods of time even though I am trying to evade like crazy.