After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[Freux]

Took a little 4-5 month break myself this past summer. Woke up one day wanting to fly a spaceship.

It's easy to overdo it in this game. Sometimes it's best just to unplug to help recharge your interest. Even if only for a day or two.

Took a little 4-5 month break myself past winter. Woke up one day wanting to fly a spaceship.

You know what?
It's still boring.
I've spent few months in-game time in deep space, honking at the same, dull, empty planets.
I was a trader, grinding my way to money through loops of cruise animation.
I've tried bounty hunting, CZ, CG and RNGineers.
I was a miner - oh, that time spent on Netflix.
I owned every single ship in game (T9 <3)
Each of that was fun. For a while.

But... it's shallow. There is that deep sense of void; unfathomable wasted potential.
We, or rather I (as word 'WE' is apparently a no-no for part of community) don't want Elite to change to our likings. I would like to play a game made with creativity and passion, as it was some time ago. Now? It's just polishing the dust.
I tried to play Elite today. I logged in, spawn in station and... what? Meaningless missions, unfinished and broken mechanics, primitive social features. Just empty, cold space (well, at least that's quite realistic). I couldn't force myself to launch my ship.

To be completely clear - I've invested in few space-sims in last few years, including Star Citizen. Game is unplayable, that's true. But I can see a lot of effort, hope and ideas, that are just waiting to be implemented. There's that optimistic, young spirit around it.
I'm afraid Elite development is hugely stoped by old fans' memory of previous iterations of it (including David Braben). I get the sentiment, but saying 'if You don't like our oldschool gaming, then just change a game' is a straight road to closed servers. No people, no money.

And please, do not turn this forum into SC community. I start to see more and more similarities.


TLDR - I like the game, the idea behind of it. It's boring and shallow in current form. Needs more fresh concepts.

 

[Kosmetas]

Everyone grows bored with the games they play... everyone. Very few of us can look back over a decade of gaming and say I still play all the games I've ever played. It happens to the best of them for some reason or another. A large majority of the games people "endeavor" last no more than a week or two before cast aside. The "developers" have to "create" a world that keeps you satisfied for long periods of time... yeah, an impossible task. Most of us can't find a partner that can achieve this impossible task. So, the fact that you have been here since "day one" they have achieved an impossible task.

Move on quietly and find a new endeavor. Leave those still mesmerized by the developers achievements of magic to their happy place.

Pong was once hours of fun for the entire family.

 

[TomS]

OP - is your CAPS LOCK broken?

I have a SPARE KEYBOARD if you'd like it?

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

[snip]There are no BIOMES. None. All planets are basically the same rock. And yes, I know, some of that is because the DEVS want to try and keep as close to mathematical reality as the real universe.. One problem.. IT IS BORING. Not to mention, we humans actually HAVE NO IDEA what planets look like or are made of. Math does not answer all especially since mankind is truly an infant when it comes to full on math and the cosmos. [snip]

I agree about us humans not knowing what's out there. I wouldn't mind coming across a planet made of cheese, or a moon the shape of pineapple with a green volcano spewing out it's thing just where it should be.
A touch of imagination and creativity.... the galaxy is soooooo huge, there's bound to be a cheesecake planet too somewhere.

 

[Roybe]

I agree about us humans not knowing what's out there. I wouldn't mind coming across a planet made of cheese, or a moon the shape of pineapple with a green volcano spewing out it's thing just where it should be.
A touch of imagination and creativity.... the galaxy is soooooo huge, there's bound to be a cheesecake planet too somewhere.

Or a teapot in orbit around a star!

 

[Ian Skippy]

Unfortunately for me, the required time to play has left me cold...more than once.

A few days ago, I had a couple hours to do something decided I would go mining in a Mining groups system...give them a hand...and make a couple of credits for myself.

I realized I had a choice. I could fly my miner out there or get there in less than half the time and ship the ship.

I took my trusty taxi out...and was at the system in 15 minutes or so.

Called for my trusty mining ship...and had a 30+ minute wait.

I waited by playing something else...and it's been 2 days...and I haven't been back in to go mining. Haven't had the time.

In a nutshell...this is my problem with E: D now...I am sure there are some folks that have plenty of time in the day to play and get things done.

When I don't...and can't do anything I want for 45 minutes or more...I find other games to play....

I understand all those that are going to jump in and say "But that's the way it is designed!" And I agree. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to play...and this is limiting the games market. It can't be something for everyone...but it could more for some if fewer people didn't enjoy poking their own eyes with a stick.

I am not sure what it is you would like though? I mean, if you like mining, you can park your ship near a great mining belt and you can easily mine for 30 minutes and call it a day.

"but my mining ship aint there".

Then you have to move your ship there, once. If you want to do whatever, whenever, wherever, how would that ever work? I dont get what it has to do with 'poking your own eyes with a stick'? Unless you want instant teleportation to wherever with whatever whenever, but that is rather drastic?

 

[cheesenbiscuits]

Surely if people have been leaving the game as much as the forums have claimed,there wouldn't be anyone left!

 

[Roybe]

I am not sure what it is you would like though? I mean, if you like mining, you can park your ship near a great mining belt and you can easily mine for 30 minutes and call it a day.

"but my mining ship aint there".

Then you have to move your ship there, once. If you want to do whatever, whenever, wherever, how would that ever work? I dont get what it has to do with 'poking your own eyes with a stick'? Unless you want instant teleportation to wherever with whatever whenever, but that is rather drastic?

This is the problem...I get on and I want to play with friends...they are doing x in system y. Most of the time that means I do not even get to play with them because it takes a large part of my time to get there.

It's not about mining, per se, it's trying to catch up with folks when I am MIA for a few days or weeks. I have the ships...I just can't get to them in the time alotted. So I sit and chat through Discord...and play something else.

If there were instantaneous ship movement...then I could get there faster and be in the game with them on arrival. I wouldn't even mind if there some premium credit added onto that. But the ship shipping discussion made ship shipping pretty useless for me.

There is more of this type of discussion happening with Multi-Crew currently.

Again, I am not speaking for anyone other than myself...I have plenty of multiplayer games with a decent amount of overlap with the people I play with...but as we desire to play together...more and more people are playing less and less in E: D....just so they can actually do things together with friends in a game.

 

[DefiledDragon]

I have been part of a number of discussions lately, many outside these official forums. And I have found those discussions are all regarding one thing.. Elite and how many players have either given up and no longer play or those rarely doing so and thinking about it.

/snip

I am curious to hear other thoughts regarding my post.

Big fan of the sequel to the original here, but not a fanboy by any means. Elite is what Elite is. Apart from some horrific concessions to allow for multiplayer gameplay, this is what Elite is. In terms of its core gameplay loop, it's never been any more than this and I don't imagine it ever will be. David Braben is more interested in the scientific aspects of the Galaxy in which the game takes place. The gameplay is an aside to the implementation of the Milky Way. Is the gameplay enough? Well, for some people it is. It's a niche game and always has been.

Does it have a ton of unrealised potential? Yes, absolutely. Should David Braben abandon his original vision for the game in order to realise this potential? No, I don't believe he should. As much as I would like to see a player driven economy, player owned space, branching missions with compelling stories/mysteries to engage in and solve, dedicated multiplayer content like missions designed with wings in mind and so on, I don't believe we ever will see that.

Does that frustrate me? Sure it does, but this discussion has been going on since the Beta and possibly even before that (I only joined during the Beta) and nothing has changed in 3 years. It is what it is. Play something else for a while and check back after each update to see if there's anything that looks interesting to you.

I can highly recommend Ghost Recon Wildlands to fill in

 

[MrFailfactory]

I always find it interesting when armchair Devs don't see how their great ideas are not only little different from what is already in the game, but also that they make that same activity take longer, and actually become more tedious. This leads to annoyance, not depth.

You don't speak for anyone other than yourself. There have been over 2 million copies of this game sold, and the likelihood that you have spoken with the majority is zero. It's unlikely that you have spoken to more than 100, yet you claim that your soapbox post is what most people want? Get over yourself.

You've been here since the beginning? Does that mean you have played the game steadily for the last two years? If so, then you have certainly gotten your money's worth, and there is a good chance that, for you, there isn't anything new to do. Nothing lasts forever, man - step away, and come back when more content has arrived.

You really should take off the rose-colored glasses regarding Star Citizen. Time will tell, but I have this hunch that the disappointment will be quite real. I would also like to remind you that you probably felt the same way regarding Elite back in the beginning, and the fact that you are still playing the game lends some serious credence to that theory.

Lose your Caps lock key, and you will likely lose less respect for what you say. Don't replace it with this or this, either. You insult people by assuming that they cannot read for emphasis without those things.

A large part of this game is making your own story, your own adventures, and your own epic moments. Alone or with others, the choice and freedom of that choice are yours to make. Some of the things you are asking for would put this game on rails. Currently, you can choose to just take the missions as something bland, and rote, or you can add your own flavor and purpose as to why you are doing them. Some of the things you are asking for take that freedom away (while leaving the same mission that is later referred to as boring). I'm not advocating RP, necessarily, but I'm saying that you can make whatever you want out of whatever you are doing, and turning this game into a Themepark leads to exactly what you have stated that you don't want.

People will respond to you, or not, at their own discretion in a public forum. That isn't up to you, and if you only want certain kinds of responses, then perhaps you should go back to whatever echo chamber spawned this post in the first place.

I think I'm done responding to you for now, and I think I will go play a game that I really enjoy.

It's called Elite: Dangerous.

Riôt

 

[Stavro Mueller]

OP: You're right.

Other people who remember the fulfilment that the original Elite played, where you imagined everything you weren't spoonfed: You're right.

One potential problem is that to replace the imagination that people used to use is not just a fulltime job, but more even than that.

FD will never succeed the way you want them to. You need a galaxy-sized content generator to generate galaxy-sized content. We never used to need that. Now we do, because the graphics and everything else are so good, we literally cannot suspend disbelief. This will Never Happen.

However, you are still right. Given the ideal is impossible, the objective ought to be to keep trying to approximate it.

 

[jasonbarron]

Sorry Malaki: mission failed.
And everybody that agrees with you (me included) has learned to stop "whining" about it.
It's totally useless.

Unfortunately, he committed the cardinal sin of burying his few valid points in a mountain of negativity essentially telling anybody who disagreed with him that they were "white knighting fanboys" and that they should just "shut up." He drove this point home on numerous occasions in follow up posts, including the incessant use of all-caps to make his point more forceful. Also, he was non-specific, relying on our imaginations to supply the mechanics of his suggestions & criticisms.

Perhaps if he'd been willing to actually have a considered discussion with dissagreeable viewpoints this could could have been a fruitful thread. But he was not, and this thread followed a predictable pattern as a result. Hopefully the OP has learned something of value here. If you want to have a meaningful discourse you should start out by being willing to listen as well as opine.

 

[Red Anders]

Explain? Because many of us are obviously saying it is. Your one line comment does not change that.

Explain what? Some people find the game boring, others don't. Amazingly enough, the same is true of every other computer game ever created.

It's not that I'm unwilling to engage in discussion but ultimately what you're going to get is a bunch of people telling you that X, Y and Z aren't boring, then a bunch of other people saying that they are. Over and over again. It's the very essence of futility because at the core of your post, like every other post about this topic, is that we don't all find the same things interesting, exciting and engrossing.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunately, he committed the cardinal sin of burying his few valid points in a mountain of negativity essentially telling anybody who disagreed with him that they were "white knighting fanboys" and that they should just "shut up." He drove this point home on numerous occasions in follow up posts, including the incessant use of all-caps to make his point more forceful.

That was also something of a deterrent. When someone feels that they have to preface their post by saying 'if you just don't agree with me, don't bother posting because I'll write you off as a fanboy and tell you to shut up' I can't really say that it increases my inclination to contribute, especially in view of the above point; that all we're actually discussing (for the 9,001st time) is that people have different preferences in their gaming experience and that Elite isn't remotely unique in not meeting everybody's wants and needs.

He could also have been a little more honest with the thread title because the devs listen now. It's just that after listening they will often say something along the lines of 'I hear what you're saying and it sounds like stuff we're not going to do'. I wish people who mean 'I want the devs to do what I want' would at least have the courage of their convictions and just say it rather than presenting themselves as if they're speaking on behalf of a vast silent cohort of gamers who are all presumably too timid to express their own wants and needs on here.

 

[Astirian]

1.0 Base game
1.1 Wings <- new mechanics
1.2 Community goals <- Same mechanics, new way to use them
1.3 Powerplay <- Same mechanics, new way to use them
1.4 CQC <- New game mode
2.0/1.6 Horizons <- New mechanics
2.1 Engineers <- Same mechanics, new way to use them.
2.2 Guardians <- New(ish) mechanics for passengers, sadly feels too close to trading to be really termed as new
2.3 Multicrew <- Same mechanics, new way to use them. Arguably gunner is new but not radically changing for everyone

I love the game and play it very regularly but my main gripe with it is that they're in love with the MMO model but they're missing a key ingredient.

1.0 Base Game
1.1 Community Goals <- MMO "GM Events", "Da Story"
1.2 Wings <- MMO Parties
1.3 Powerplay <- MMO Endgame Grind / Battlegrounds?
1.4 CQC <- MMO PVP Arenas
2.0/1.6 Horizons <- MMO New Landmass (Being fair this is great. Previous game feature - no atmospheres [yet] due to modern gfx required.)
2.1 Engineers <- MMO Crafting / Gear Tuning
2.2 Guardians <- MMO Pets (Passenger missions a previous game feature.)
2.3 Multicrew <- MMO Party Finder + Character Creator (Usable camera, a previous game feature.)

It's honestly like they're working off of a WoW feature checklist and filling in the feature gaps from the previous installments.

When you put all your resources to work on MMO framework stuff, depth suffers.

Which annoys me because I wanted Elite 4 not Elite Online but that's just personal gaming tastes (this in the same way I'm more pumped for the next main sequence Elder Scrolls for example) and I thought that's what I was getting when I watched the Kickstarter videos, not everyone cares more for single-player though... Which is fine.

The problem here I think is that it's feeling like WoW in space but with proc-gen quests and less variety in the zones. Very little in-game lore. No tangible narrative, that's the key ingredient. Galnet updates are just not cutting it. I know they're shooting for a 'real' timescale but it's just too slow for a game. Also going to internet forums to read up on the in-game story is not right. That should be supplemental stuff you do because you're super into it (like WoW Lore minutiae for instance, keeping with the WoW example). Story elements should be easily accessible/observed/participated in, in-game.

There are no Special Missions to take (I sincerely hope mission chaining is a tool to enable this). I think that maybe FFE spoiled me with its story missions? It is the black sheep of the family after all.

I had high hopes for the Ruins mission till I realised they had made a classic FDev move with it; implement something fantastic then pour grind sauce all over it. It was great at the start but I made it to 30 data then that was me done, too daunting to continue.

Please Frontier, as a self-checking measure; if you think it doesn't feel grindy enough at design stage, that's the point where you dial the grind back.

Example of an awesome theoretical mission you could have gotten last year using in-game mechanics (minus mission chaining of course, which we now have):

- Obtain mission to go deliver data to laboratory outpost.
- Lab gives you mission to go to Perseus star to find a UA.
- Upon scanning mission UA, analysis reveals it points to Sterope.
- Go to Sterope, find capital ship.
- Capital ship sends "encrypted transmission" to you with planetary co-ordinates.
- Find Barnacles.
- Bring back Meta-Alloys to lab.

Feel great. Bask. What a lovely Space Adventure.

You could make a ton of these. Make just 20-30 even. If you want, you could even track the player's progress in a file so the CMDR doesn't get a duplicate mission chain, make it a one time deal. Or don't, I dunno.

Later you could devote a Science UI tab devoted to scanning mini-games/puzzles etc... a la Mass Effect 2. Maybe you need to equip a reserved slot science computer module for it?

You can do eet guys! Love you!

Just maybe give the "Let's make our MMO more MMO-y with MMO stuff because people like MMOs and the MMO business model is good. MMO." stuff a little rest for now. Tip-Offs were a good start, retrieving Meta-Alloys as part of a mission was fun, Ruins mission is too grindy and chained missions is exciting.

 

[Doc_Holiday]

Put an end to telepresence in favor of a win win win solution!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/337213-Telepresence-is-not-necessary

 

[Slack]

Unfortunately, he committed the cardinal sin of burying his few valid points in a mountain of negativity essentially telling anybody who disagreed with him that they were "white knighting fanboys" and that they should just "shut up." He drove this point home on numerous occasions in follow up posts, including the incessant use of all-caps to make his point more forceful. Also, he was non-specific, relying on our imaginations to supply the mechanics of his suggestions & criticisms.

Perhaps if he'd been willing to actually have a considered discussion with dissagreeable viewpoints this could could have been a fruitful thread. But he was not, and this thread followed a predictable pattern as a result. Hopefully the OP has learned something of value here. If you want to have a meaningful discourse you should start out by being willing to listen as well as opine.

OP's presentation is questionable, but some points are valid. Seems to me all the content added recently and planned for the future has a major flaw. It still revolves around the player doing much of the same activities as before.

Remember the alien encounter? Way more of that FD! And less of what you are doing, imo... Like multi tiered missions that have a storyline the player can sink their teeth into. Characters that have a voice, a personality. Someone you can grow to love or hate. I don't feel that way about any of the existing mission givers, I couldn't care less about their needs. As great as Elite is at the things it does right, it's simply not enough. In very short order the player tries everything and all other activities are just different variations of the same thing. What I think keeps most players going after that point is the want for the "end game" ships. And on the way there they moan and groan and say it's boring and grindy. I wonder why? Lol

 

[krylite]

Elite Dangerous is already a transcendent classic. The player numbers after 3 years are still decently among the top of the mmo space sim games. And ED is the biggest spacesim scope of them all having references and data from astronomy. No other game has a night sky with stars corresponding to where you are in the galaxy along with accounting for luminescence and visibility. The only other classic sim/game with this longevity is Flight Simulator X and Prepar3D which is going on 12 years now. ED is an amazing game, and a wonderful updated sequel from Elite and FFE. FSX has many more times available content from third parties , but it was only feasible because the extra content was mostly not multiplayer dependent. 3rd party content continues to be made today for FSX where some are triple-A addons with whole new game release content by themselves such as PMDG's boeing planes, and FlightSimLabs' Airbus 320. That ED has transcended to a similar ongoing player base without 3rd party content is just amazing. Sure, thousands of players often stop playing and leave between updates but many come back with each new update and I suspect many ED owners will still come back in the future seasons and years to come.

I don't believe FDEV is ignoring the players rather I believe they have priorities and ongoing work for seasons 3 to 7 in their decade long plan as they've said in the beginning. The reason it's taking so long is because the ED universe has an ambitious astronomical scope. For example, the X games historically filled the spacesim void after FFE but they could only do a limited number of grid sectors in a fantasy space world. There was no realism to the orbits or the planets, and the backgrounds were more artistic than scientific backdrops. In X3 Reunion, TC and Albion you could tell the game kept track of all your owned ships on their robotic paths to deliver cargo between stations as well as keeping track of many npc ships. Now today , it's much harder for ED to keep track of this kind of gameplay among 400 billion systems let along the 200 or more systems the majority of ED players frequent. The persistency across systems and the various loading 3D spaces are challenging obstacles for ED (and SC).

That said, I would like to see FDev attempt to bring more gameplay with what is already there even if it's still mostly confined to text. They could make a dynamic persistent market among the 200+ worlds most players frequent so the prices of the commodities could fluctuate just like a real commodities and futures markets. The billionaires could invest credits into corporations and the better performing corporations could be build new bases or change stations, changing populations with the boom/busts/retreats etc. Even with no spacelegs, npc ships could be hired temporarily through the communication screen. Rescuing npcs and passengers at unidentified signal sources instead of always lifeless ship wrecks. Hopefully the upcoming chained missions will segue into more involved npc missions. It's almost like all these things already in the game are setup for future expanded missions and gameplay. I don't know what FDev is working on behind the scenes , but I think and have faith they are continuing to work on the goals of the decade long plan and we will see what is going to be released next only when it is teased and announced however many more months and years it will take.

 

[Father Giliam]

Put an end to telepresence in favor of a win win win solution!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/337213-Telepresence-is-not-necessary

"Win win win solution." To everyone inside the bubble or at Colonia. Everyone else? Na they're fine by themselves.

 

[Hooplah]

...Right now, I load the game.. and I just realized this as I wrote it... I load the game and almost feel a sense of dread because I know I am headed into the same thing...

I load the game and feel a sense of delight because I know that I am headed into the same thing. That is the difference and I don't know how to convey that feeling to you. Maybe it is a sense of stability and comfort in knowing that I can live in my own personal ED world that I created and not be thrown a curve having to follow a pre-programmed path before one has to take out the big monster at the end of level 14. What I dread are players trying to change the game to something it was never designed to be. Sadly sometimes they get their way in the form of buffs and nerfs.

Will there be more immersion and depth in the future? Certainly. We have a ton of the little repeatable missions for now and aliens are on the way. The background simulation is in place and players actions affect it. How well that works is totally up to the players to enhance or destroy. Larger more in depth missions may eventually show up as occurred in Frontier:First Encounters with the Thargoid Missions in search of the ship Turner's Quest and Mic Turner. That is a handcoded mission. These types of in depth missions have not been added to the game yet. Maybe the goal for now is to stabilize the playability, finding and removing bugs, adding in more features and resolving the issues they cause in what is probably the most complex and ambitious online game ever designed. Then maybe that depth and immersion that you seek will work when it is eventually added.

...Players need to be more engaged, have more immersion, have more content and reason to enjoy and have fun. They need to have things that draw them into the universe and game...

Many players are engaged, have found the immersion they seek, have more content than anyone thought possible and in so doing are enjoying the game and having fun. Others are not. I cannot explain that to you either. For now the type of engagement and immersion that you seek simply isn't there and trying to push the development envelope at your desired pace instead of Frontier's is not going to work. Fighting everyone who disagrees with your position isn't going to work either. The decision to continue playing or not is entirely up to you.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

I took my trusty taxi out...and was at the system in 15 minutes or so.

Called for my trusty mining ship...and had a 30+ minute wait.

I am not sure what it is you would like though? I mean, if you like mining, you can park your ship near a great mining belt and you can easily mine for 30 minutes and call it a day.

"but my mining ship aint there".

Then you have to move your ship there, once. If you want to do whatever, whenever, wherever, how would that ever work? I dont get what it has to do with 'poking your own eyes with a stick'? Unless you want instant teleportation to wherever with whatever whenever, but that is rather drastic?

It's not very often that I transfer the ship for 30 minutes. If I do, it's a good opportunity to get up and take a break.

I propose a 30-day challenge. Weigh in, then every time you have to wait for ship or module transfer, exercise. 8 minutes? Push-ups/Sit-Ups/Sprints. 30 minutes? 2-mile jog (come on, dude, that's a 15 minute mile). Or, play fetch with the dog, who has been waiting so patiently for your real love and attention while you flu around an imaginary galaxy shooting at space pixels. Or clean the toilet... because if you're a bachelor and you wait too long, you know that thing starts to reek after a while.

Or go out and knock out some quick gardening. And when you neighbor walks up and says "Hey man, doing some gardening?" look at him with an intense, thousand-yard stare and say "Yeah, my spaceship's not going to be here for 30 minutes."

VDEDSTC... Vin Delanos' Elite: Dangerous Ship Transfer Challenge. I like it.