After looking at the new beta, I have a few comments. It is time for serious discussion AND the DEVS to listen to us.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Those that cannot, for whatever reason, accept someone else's opinion.

Irony!

Apparently they can dish it out but they cannot take it in return.

More irony!

For you that cannot seem to grasp this concept, ask yourself this. How many games do you own now that you have not touched in months, years or uninstalled? Then ask yourself why.

That's easy, you weren't around to save them

Perhaps I could have worded my OP differently.

Perhaps you should have. Again, the OP sets the tone. If, as you said, you cannot take what you dish out, a different tone would have been more productive.

You reap what you sow

 

[Malakie]

Irony!


More irony!


That's easy, you weren't around to save them

There is no irony from me.. I have no problem with other peoples opinions nor have I cut down any other opinions. I have stated mine and discussed where I disagreed or agreed with them. That is part of discussion so irony has not beaing on that. Were I to say they were literally wrong, cut down or insult their opinion while stating mine was right and they had no right to do the same, THAT would be irony. However that is not the case here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There is no irony from me.. I have no problem with other peoples opinions nor have I cut down any other opinions. I have stated mine and discussed where I disagreed or agreed with them. That is part of discussion so irony has not beaing on that. Were I to say they were literally wrong, cut down or insult their opinion while stating mine was right and they had no right to do the same, THAT would be irony. However that is not the case here.

Well, you did write: "I know some of you reading are going to get all bent out of shape. You need to sit back, shut up and truly THINK about what I just wrote."

On a discussion forum it's not wise to tell others to sit back, shut up and truly think about what you wrote.

 

[Zambrick]

Umm, ohhh. Don't tell Davey...





I don't know if that's even true, or indeed immersion breaking. But... I definitely do agree with you . They need to get a C&P / Karma system in (and ideally a more robust galactic-wide bounty hunting system). As far as I can tell they still intend to enact something like these outlined ideas on those fronts. They've just reiterated not just that karma is still planned, but added that a bounty-tracking limpet should be coming too. As far as I can tell the intent and the ideas are there. We just wait on the execution, as is so often the case

O I read that article in the past. I disagreed with it then as well. Due to the fact that the game was never kickstarted as GTA in space. The preceding Elite series games felt in no way like GTA as well. I really think MB was just throwing out popular game titles at that time for sales purposes. I think that was the only time he had made that reference as far as I remember.

This game was never designed for the masses like GTA V. Not to mention the penalty for death in any GTA was not to have the game was to take away all your possessions or bankrupt you. At some point you were so rich that it no longer mattered.

This game unfortunately was so full of money exploits that a huge portion of the player base became rich well before they should have been. There is no reason for people to have 10s of billions of dollars. The game is called Elite Dangerous yet none of them have need to have any fear. They could be killed a hundred thousand times and still have enough for rebuys.

Those are the very same people who are now bored and are going out and ruining gameplay and immersion for other players. They are also the reason why our new players never stick around let alone buy the game. So if they ever made the game truly dangerous for these types of players with a proper crime and punishment program that would severely reduce their in game bank account, then they will never have anything to fear or risk.

Being able to do what you want with no restrictions is not a game. Its going outside and starting fires in the lawn. Sure you will have some pyros who lover that, but the rest of society will want to shun and remove them from their environs. People play games for amusement and entertainment but those players make the game the exact opposite of those things.

Mostly because all of the games participants know that nothing will come of the interaction. The person who killed you wont go up in the non existent leaderboards/rankings. When they kill you your score in the game does not adjust rank. When they kill you nothing will happen to them or for them inside of the game and elsewhere. All they can do is hope to garner notoriety by shaming people on you tube.

Had both participants been part of a contest or obeyed any kind of rule, then these interactions could be considered fair play. The fact that the people who do these things want no part in a fair contest with any kinds of rules only enforces the fact that what they are doing is not PVP.

I worry about this because regardless as to what anyone says the lack of any meaningful boundries in the game will kill it eventually. Eve Online went from Millions of players at launch to less than 5 years later under a million. Then no more than 2 years after that under 100k and now firmly siting at 60k for the last decade or so. At least 20k of those players had to have sunk many many thousands of dollars in real world money in the game. A dozen or so have spent or are responsible for millions of real world dollars in the game. Multiple 200,000 dollar space ships blown up in one PVP event. Its sick really.

The only reason that game still exists is because the Development team are the gold farmers in that game. They sell their in game currency to make it easier for the players. Otherwise that game would have died years ago.

 

[Malakie]

Well, you did write: "I know some of you reading are going to get all bent out of shape. You need to sit back, shut up and truly THINK about what I just wrote."

On a discussion forum it's not wise to tell others to sit back, shut up and truly think about what you wrote.

I was referring to those very people that I talked about.. the trolls and people that would hi-jack the thread .. just as we have seen.

- - - Updated - - -

O I read that article in the past. I disagreed with it then as well. Due to the fact that the game was never kickstarted as GTA in space. The preceding Elite series games felt in no way like GTA as well. I really think MB was just throwing out popular game titles at that time for sales purposes. I think that was the only time he had made that reference as far as I remember.

This game was never designed for the masses like GTA V. Not to mention the penalty for death in any GTA was not to have the game was to take away all your possessions or bankrupt you. At some point you were so rich that it no longer mattered.

This game unfortunately was so full of money exploits that a huge portion of the player base became rich well before they should have been. There is no reason for people to have 10s of billions of dollars. The game is called Elite Dangerous yet none of them have need to have any fear. They could be killed a hundred thousand times and still have enough for rebuys.

Those are the very same people who are now bored and are going out and ruining gameplay and immersion for other players. They are also the reason why our new players never stick around let alone buy the game. So if they ever made the game truly dangerous for these types of players with a proper crime and punishment program that would severely reduce their bank account, then they will never have anything to fear or risk.

Being able to do what you want with no restrictions is not a game. Its going outside and starting fires in the lawn. Sure you will have some pyros who lover that, but the rest of society will want to shun and remove them from their environs. People play games for amusement and entertainment but those players make the game the exact opposite of those things.

Mostly because all of the games participants know that nothing will come of the interaction. The person who killed you wont go up in the non existent leaderboards/rankings. When they kill you your score in the game does not adjust rank. When they kill you nothing will happen to them or for them inside of the game and elsewhere. All they can do is hope to garner notoriety by shaming people on you tube.

Had both participants been part of a contest or obeyed any kind of rule, then these interactions could be considered fair play. The fact that the people who do these things want no part in a fair contest with any kinds of rules only enforces the fact that what they are doing is not PVP.

I worry about this because regardless as to what anyone says the lack of any meaningful boundries in the game will kill it eventually. Eve Online went from Millions of players at launch to less than 5 years later under a million. Then no more than 2 years after that under 100k and now firmly siting at 60k for the last decade or so. At least 20k of those players had to have sunk many many thousands of dollars in real world money in the game. A dozen or so have spent or are responsible for millions of real world dollars in the game. Multiple 200,000 dollar space ships blown up in one PVP event. Its sick really.

The only reason that game still exists is because the Development team are the gold farmers in that game. They sell their in game currency to make it easier for the players. Otherwise that game would have died years ago.

You made a HUGE and WRONG assumption... : "This game unfortunately was so full of money exploits that a huge portion of the player base became rich well before they should have been. There is no reason for people to have 10s of billions of dollars. The game is called Elite Dangerous yet none of them have need to have any fear. They could be killed a hundred thousand times and still have enough for rebuys.

Those are the very same people who are now bored and are going out and ruining gameplay and immersion for other players. They are also the reason why our new players never stick around let alone buy the game. So if they ever made the game truly dangerous for these types of players with a proper crime and punishment program that would severely reduce their bank account, then they will never have anything to fear or risk. "


I am the OP. I to date I have yet to exceed making $10,000,000 credits even though I am an original full founder. Why? Because not all of us USED those exploits nor play that way.

While there may be some that did and are bored for that reason, don't make assertions that are not factual. In my case, you are not even close to the truth.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I was referring to those very people that I talked about.. the trolls and people that would hi-jack the thread .. just as we have seen.

Right, I see I'm not getting though, since you don't care to acknowledge that some of the responses you weren't looking for (like mine I reckon) are a result of the way you worded the OP. You solicited the exact reactions you were aiming to avoid. If you had left out those bits and just made your case ... Oh well. Since my comments aren't what you're looking for, and we're talking past each other, I'll leave it at that.

Just remember, take it light

 

[Soon(TM)]

This is old hat for sure.

Everything the OP has said has been said over and over again since 1.0 was launched.

FDev don't change, they keep adding fluff and skip the Immersive content because it's easier to do.

The fan boys keep eating it up and loving it.

It won't change so why bother.

This is a niche game and it always will be.

So stay for the ride or get off at the next stop.

 

[Mark Lock]

I only agree with OP on one point, the Economy should be player driven and there should be some real economy going on, last time I tried to do some actual trading, the economy reset completely without any logic, prices dropped from very high to very very low in 0 seconds after a few routes, it feels random rather than a believable economy, prices just reset at some point.
As for the features, yes , latest developments are lightyears away from David Braben's original vision, they are adding arcadish stuff like the RNG in Engineers which should not be there. I bought the game for the promised realism, for space legs and possibilty to land on planets , one has been done, we can land on planets and the galaxy is realistic to some extent but the game still has a long way to go, they need to add all the basic stuff they promised, the rest can come later.

 

[WreckWren]

Good luck expressing anything but a gushing positive opinion on this forum, the shills shut it down in a page.

 

[Soon(TM)]

For example, if planets with life became a thing and cataloguing them gave tons of credits and exploration rank so exploring 1 thing really extensively was the optimal method then suddenly the face of it would change.
...

Exploration should have been the main profession from day one.

All of FDEVs work should have revolved around exploration.

It offers the most diverse and immersive option of all the professions.

Finding new things, escaping pirates, discovering new worlds, new life, new stellar phenomenon, artifacts and objects that can be investigated or kept and sold.

The game boasts 400,000,000 stars but has pretty much no way for you to interact with them.

So it may as well have just been 4 stars since you can get the exact same experience.

Too much pew pew focus has ruined this game.

Try it ,spend a week just visiting the same 4 systems, then spend a week moving around as many as you can, i bet you can't tell the difference other than the system names and the faction names, text is the only real difference.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

I was referring to those very people that I talked about.. the trolls and people that would hi-jack the thread .. just as we have seen.

- - - Updated - - -




You made a HUGE and WRONG assumption... : "This game unfortunately was so full of money exploits that a huge portion of the player base became rich well before they should have been. There is no reason for people to have 10s of billions of dollars. The game is called Elite Dangerous yet none of them have need to have any fear. They could be killed a hundred thousand times and still have enough for rebuys.

Those are the very same people who are now bored and are going out and ruining gameplay and immersion for other players. They are also the reason why our new players never stick around let alone buy the game. So if they ever made the game truly dangerous for these types of players with a proper crime and punishment program that would severely reduce their bank account, then they will never have anything to fear or risk. "


I am the OP. I to date I have yet to exceed making $10,000,000 credits even though I am an original full founder. Why? Because not all of us USED those exploits nor play that way.

While there may be some that did and are bored for that reason, don't make assertions that are not factual. In my case, you are not even close to the truth.

I agree the game has made it really easy to make a lot of money quickly.

I came across a player rated 'novice' flying a Python!

I didn't get chance to find out how he'd managed to stay a Novice and get such a ship.

Even with my inexpert skills, I hit next level in a few hours of playing time.

and Only just in last few weeks have been able to afford a Python.

I'm with you OP on saying it's all a bit easy.

In trying the multi-crew Beta, I think the Crew dynamic makes big ships almost invincible.

I sat in a CZ with an Anaconda, kitted to high levels and basically sat around drawing fire while my gunner and the SLF pilot shot and killed anything that moved. I only got to shoot at the bigger ships when and if I could get the whale of a thing the 'conda is to turn round in time.

When crewing for another pilot we managed to make many millions in less than an hour. and without "danger of death" on my part.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

One of the problems I want to touch on before saying my piece though, is I do NOT want to be inundated with a bunch of over the top fanboy replies. If you cannot join this discussion as an adult, if you feel you have to berate someone with a different opinion than your own, DON'T POST.

Personally I think that is a fair observation and I will respect that sentiment.
Many players could write pages of this stuff and go on ad-infinitum I will try and distil it into 1 clear point:

Elite Dangerous is awesome but a simulation needs depth and a game needs gameplay...... both are shallow currently in ED. Why? There is no cause and effect, risk vs. reward, no consequence and no persistence of worth in the bigger scheme of things.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

To put my own idea's away from the OP's views ....

It has to be remembered that really Elite in any guise has always been a randomly generated 'rinse and repeat' type of game.
And you have to use your imagination to fill in the gaps, then game is all about fly from place A to place B, getting shot at and choosing to either fight or run, then finally trading your gains(ill gotten?) at the next point you can.

That is essentially what the game still is.

I do think that some more thought should go into the missions design, with maybe an increase in complexity for some of them.
For example, it can be tricky to complete missions, even with a few days to do them, as the random nature of mission targets means sometimes you don't see any for ages.

I think the user interface needs careful consideration, it is very fragmented especially with each new feature.
If we have a mechanism to display and navigate a list, it should be the same for all lists
You have filters for the Navigation target list, but a series of tabs for outfitting and in some cases, no filters (eg in Contacts) at all.

Beta has provided an Avatar mechanism, this has another means of navigating the options (it's quite good and intuitive, but that's not my point)
also there are revisions to the 'external' camera view which frankly is an unholy nightmare. Someone mentioned a help video was available on how to set it all up and it was nearly 10 minutes long ... just to make a series of control settings.

I'm not keen on the Gunner's eye view in multi-crew (also in Beta atm) as it is from a third person perspective.
This should be a view from the gun turrets and should only allow vision within the arc of available turrets.
Gunner POI is a bit OP in my opinion.

I think it's too easy to make money in the game. Old style Elite would be sure to kill you if you'd not saved the game you'd be right back to start in a fairly short order. Having to work up to the bigger ships should be a challenge.

If ED get's the underlying mechanisms to be consistent then adding new features will be much easier in future.

If season 3 was just about getting everything to work consistently, ironed out most bugs and used the same type of controls for each feature then I'd be quite a happy man.

 

[Garbarrage]

The only constructive point that I could extract from the OP is that they would like a dynamic economy.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to happen, for off repeated reasons. P2P architecture, toxic ego driven players, exclusionary gameplay etc.

I'm not saying that I agree with those reasons, but like it or lump it, those are the reasons that FD have given, and never shown any inclination to change their position. Best to make the most of what you're given. Failing that, it would be best to move along.

Has any game ever done a complete reversal of concept mid-development? Ever? Maybe they have, but I don't know of any.

 

[Tel Prydain]

I would suggest that if you don't think the missions are dynamic, you might not be paying attention.... All MMO-style quests are same-y if you ignore context. In Elite missions are impacted by Government type, Economy Type, faction and Government/Economic State. Then, of course, missions can 'wrinkle' mid-mission or you can pick up missions while in-flight.
Additionally, the upcoming Chained missions are the biggest 2.3 feature that no one is talking about. They look to be able to contextualize missions into mini-narratives, and while that feature is in it's infancy it looks like it will fundamentally change the way we approach missions.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

So what you are saying is that you are burnt out, have done pretty much everything in game and you want more stuff to do?

Sounds like you need a break until development catches up to your desires.

All these threads happened with EVE at about the 3 year mark as well and are normal. People like yourself think that development happens a lot quicker than it does in reality.

It's simply really, it's taken you these past couple of years to do the original content plus a few tweaks. If it's not fun any more give it a break until the development injects more 'content' that will interest you.

All sound advice, except for one major drawback. I firmly believe that by the time ED adds that extra actual content, not more shinies, Star Citizen will be at gold stage and that'll be a significant hit for the ED playerbase. Yes SC will be at Beta +1 stage with content missing, but it's already doing things better than ED.

Multicrew, planets (less of them but more development made of the ones that exist) game server / player networking are just 3 major ED content killers right there.

I think some of the major issues with ED, especially the situation with too many planets vs content and player networking will NEVER be settled satisfactorily because FDev don't have the money or manpower, or most especially it seems, the inclination.

A game that was sold on the ideas of "Like Elite you knew, but you can bring your friends!" that then implemented a sub par network system so even 2 of you can barely link up correctly let alone the 32 instance limit.

The stark reality is that until those fundamental game mechanics are fixed, asking for more content and immersion is a waste of time because that content will be the equivalent of a palace built on quicksand.

Maybe they are doing something about it and won't tell us (as is thier norm) but my guess after that annoucement of "other platforms" means they are just forging on with what they have, and the plan that they have to generate a larger crossplatform playerbase to keep the numbers good, while accepting those numbers are not longterm players but an ever shifting sandpile of temporary players.

 

[IamMe]

Exploration should have been the main profession from day one.

All of FDEVs work should have revolved around exploration.

It offers the most diverse and immersive option of all the professions.

Finding new things, escaping pirates, discovering new worlds, new life, new stellar phenomenon, artifacts and objects that can be investigated or kept and sold.

The game boasts 400,000,000 stars but has pretty much no way for you to interact with them.

So it may as well have just been 4 stars since you can get the exact same experience.

Too much pew pew focus has ruined this game.

Try it ,spend a week just visiting the same 4 systems, then spend a week moving around as many as you can, i bet you can't tell the difference other than the system names and the faction names, text is the only real difference.

exactly!
size of galaxy at this point is irrelevant.
maybe all this silence from devs is cos they realise those KS goals are out of reach so they focused creating multicrew pew pew game with aliens.

 

[DefiledDragon]

O I read that article in the past. I disagreed with it then as well. Due to the fact that the game was never kickstarted as GTA in space. The preceding Elite series games felt in no way like GTA as well. I really think MB was just throwing out popular game titles at that time for sales purposes. I think that was the only time he had made that reference as far as I remember.

/snip

That's an incredibly selfish a presumptuous view. The man who designed and co-wrote the original game and wrote the sequels views GTA as the spiritual successor to Elite. Your opinion on that fact is irrelevant. The fact is that David Braben, who created the franchise, believes that GTA has more in common with his vision of Elite than other space games. The fact that the game feels like "GTA in space" to you is likely because that was the intention of David Braben when he drew up his vision for the game?

Also, the fact that you don't find certain aspects of the game entertaining doesn't mean that they aren't. It just means that you don't like those aspects. The universe of Elite is supposed to be a harsh, dystopian environment that constantly challenges the player both physically in terms of piloting skill and morally, where you might weigh up the huge profits to be made from slave trading against the moral implications. It's not supposed to be farmville in space. Getting blown up, by AI or other players, is all part of the experience. If it's not to your taste, you have two other modes to choose from that pretty much guarantee safety from other players.

As for bored billionaire syndrome, I rarely see it. Most of the billionaires I've seen declare themselves as such are usually people who are enjoying the game. Now and again you will see a thread from one or two that might say "well, I've had 2 great years out of it, but it's getting a bit repetitive now" or some such. The people that complain about the game being slow paced, boring or grindy are usually the ones struggling to achieve their goals, be it wealth or rank or whatever.

Killing people in a video game doesn't have to net you points, or money, or fame, or anything else other than fun. If you find it fun to fight and destroy other players, fair play to you. If somebody were to interdict me and destroy my ship, they need no other reason than they wanted to. Just because you can't make sense of it, that doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. It simply means that it's beyond your understanding.

Finally, nothing that happens in a video game can be considered "sick". Dial back the hysteria a tad eh?

 

[Spacecat]

In the words of that inmortal poet, Taylor Swift:

###Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off ###

;-) Happy wednesday. Enjoy Elite.

Lol, how do I give negative rep?

 

[jasonbarron]

Lol, how do I give negative rep?

Why would you give negative rep? That post was solid gold. And Taylor Swift is awesome so quit hating, yo.