AI Vehicle Programmer .... the search continues

[VR SenseiMatty]

One wonders why FD are even asking. All they have to do is read their own forums, we all know that a lot here profess to be world leaders in gaming design, programming, networking - well every aspect of the genre and they all say they can do a better job.

Just hire them

One day the will start reading in their own forum... I want to believe

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Quite sad about this (that the placement hasn't been filled yet) ... I had high hopes that this coder role in combination with the "base building" leak suggested that planetary bases were going to become much more alive (with NPC ground vehicles going about their business a bit like ships around a starport) and that we might end up with surface based missions and objectives. If they haven't even found a coder for this yet tho those dreams seem somehow less likely for 2020. Perhaps there's still time?

It doesn't mean they are not developing AI SRV at all. Even in my company there are several open positions since long time, but we're still completing our projects and satisfing our customers

 

[Stealthie]

It would certainly be a fun problem to have a go at from an AI standpoint.

Stressful as heck on a deadline and with much hanging off it.. I wonder what their fallback solution to this is?

Maybe a compromise could be reached based on skimmers?
They, apparently, aren't hampered by terrain cos they float.
Maybe FDev could, say, increase the cargo capacity of the Scarab to 4t and then introduce a hover-Scarab with a cargo capacity of 1t, which'd be easier to get around in but would carry less... and which NPCs could drive without clever AI?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Maybe a compromise could be reached based on skimmers?
They, apparently, aren't hampered by terrain cos they float.
Maybe FDev could, say, increase the cargo capacity of the Scarab to 4t and then introduce a hover-Scarab with a cargo capacity of 1t, which'd be easier to get around in but would carry less... and which NPCs could drive without clever AI?

It also comes down to clever design. For example, why would you have SRVs driving across plains in remote systems, except for "ooh an SRV"? Would it be better to attach SRV AI to missions? Then you could have base sieges for example where the enemy comes to a central, designed point. Then you refine what we have now (Guardian drones stuck behind pillars for example).

 

[Stealthie]

It also comes down to clever design. For example, why would you have SRVs driving across plains in remote systems, except for "ooh an SRV"? Would it be better to attach SRV AI to missions? Then you could have base sieges for example where the enemy comes to a central, designed point. Then you refine what we have now (Guardian drones stuck behind pillars for example).

Oh, absolutely.

I'd love to see "ground attack" missions, where an outpost might be under attack and you need to shoot up waves of incoming SRVs.
Or, perhaps, convoy protection missions etc.

Basically, go play G-Police for a month and then build that into ED.

 

[Dommarraa]

I could perform most of the dev roles at FD including Adam and Davs (maybe not as well, but I could do them), but I would not touch this role with a ten foot pole.

When we had a truly EVIL project to do that involved real time optimised scheduling on 5 constraints, we hired a graduate and just set him on the task. At no point did we tell him how horrible the task was, he just accepted it as a normal job, and worked out how to do it.
Sometimes (only sometimes) a fresh flexible brain is better than experience. And cheaper.

 

[Lightspeed]

Even AI driven SRVs restricted to bases would require a lot of terrain knowledge, but if they had some bases with only flat terrain and restricted the NPCs to those, it would bring the planetary game more alive than it is at present. Let them just drive around delivering 'data.' They don't all have to be 'battle NPCs' but a few would help.

 

[Sylow]

Maybe a compromise could be reached based on skimmers?
They, apparently, aren't hampered by terrain cos they float.
Maybe FDev could, say, increase the cargo capacity of the Scarab to 4t and then introduce a hover-Scarab with a cargo capacity of 1t, which'd be easier to get around in but would carry less... and which NPCs could drive without clever AI?

I would even say that's exactly the reason why NPCs only have skimmers: by just placing them a few meters above the ground, there's much less geography to deal with. Sure there might still be buildings at a base. But all the rocks and small things, which we very much experience when driving the SRV, don't affect it at all.

All the AI has to do is to keep the skimmer within a certain altitude band, high enough not to crash, low enough to still be an effective threat. You don't need any sophisticated AI for that. Some basic fuzzy logic can already do that job, at rather low demand of processing power. Then you cut down the worlds surface to two dimensions, anything without building is allowed, anything with building is considered to be blocked. When a skimmer would fly into a blocked building, it merely uses lateral thrusters and internally "slides" along the wall till it has visual line to the target again. That's what we have, it's comparatively easy to implement.

Once you have to navigate all the small objects on the ground, and have to deal with wheel drive instead of thrusters, things get much more complicated. Tracked vehicles would still be much easier. They can turn on the spot, which eliminates a lof of "route pre-planing" (even if it's just for the next 250 meters), which can really get complicated in a randomly generated environment.

Anyway, i am not saying that there are no people out there with the necessary skillset. But anybody who has the knowledge FD is asking for at the moment can make extremely good money in the automotive industry. (Most people who have these skills did learn them in this field. Which means they don't meet the "and has to have experience in game development" requirement. )

 

[M00ka]

What worries me regarding all of this is what exactly are we envisaging these NPC driving SRV daredevils doing? Are they just going to drive aimlessly around a planet so us the players can say 'Look there is an SRV tearing around the landscape - wohoo wohoo'. Or are we expecting missions to take out the pirate leader convoy? Well that one would be a far bit easier to take out whilst still in your ship, so why bother with an SRV.

I guess I am having trouble seeing meaningful gameplay out of this, I just have to trust FD knowing their game better than I do

 

[Lightspeed]

What worries me regarding all of this is what exactly are we envisaging these NPC driving SRV daredevils doing? Are they just going to drive aimlessly around a planet so us the players can say 'Look there is an SRV tearing around the landscape - wohoo wohoo'. Or are we expecting missions to take out the pirate leader convoy? Well that one would be a far bit easier to take out whilst still in your ship, so why bother with an SRV.

I guess I am having trouble seeing meaningful gameplay out of this, I just have to trust FD knowing their game better than I do

Dinosaurs in Jeeps

 

[Rubbernuke]

Dinosaurs in Jeeps

That must be a new bug then. The dinasaaauuurr needs to be behind the jeep.

 

[M00ka]

Dinosaurs in Jeeps

Don't laugh mate, it could end up as lame as that

 

[Sylow]

What worries me regarding all of this is what exactly are we envisaging these NPC driving SRV daredevils doing? Are they just going to drive aimlessly around a planet so us the players can say 'Look there is an SRV tearing around the landscape - wohoo wohoo'. Or are we expecting missions to take out the pirate leader convoy? Well that one would be a far bit easier to take out whilst still in your ship, so why bother with an SRV.

I guess I am having trouble seeing meaningful gameplay out of this, I just have to trust FD knowing their game better than I do

Without gameplay, the thing would be worthless. Just seen a random SRV driving around would not be worth the effort.

On which gameplay it could be, good question. In case of doubt, the pirate leader convoy might actually also has some AA-equiped SRVs along or something like that. Or we might get more structures (canyons, caves, etc. ) where ground attack becomes really hard or perhaps impossible. Along the lines of "the bandits use this underground cave system, wipe them out". And just no ship (and SLF! ) can fit through some of the tunnels down there, while an SRV can.

Another ideal would be like "control traffic around this base and eliminate those who try to bring illegal goods into it". As ships have, uh, problems targeting ground vehicles, it might be necessary to bring your own SRV to scan and destroy them.

But those are very specific scenarios. I right now can't come up with something more broadly applicable. But we'd really need something like that, to make NPC controlled SRVs really worth the effort.

 

[rootsrat]

No NPC driving SRVs for the foreseeable future. This careers advert is not new, but it has been re-posted, perhaps with some more specific detail. They haven't found anyone so far, which emphasises the cutting edge of some of the features they seek to implement.

Should we be encouraged they are still looking for someone to take this forward? Yes ! But it means this feature for SRVs will be a long way ahead.

How many programmers would have direct experience of vehicle AI over rugged terrain in games ? A car racing game? On horseback?

Should we be disappointed they don't have it ongoing already? Well, maybe it points to something beyond the New Era? It doesn't look like we will get this 'soon.'

My emphasis is in blue or yellow.



"AI Vehicle Programmer

Frontier are the studio behind Jurassic World Evolution, Elite Dangerous and Planet Coaster. We are Britain’s biggest independent publisher and developer of videogames, based among the world-leading technology cluster in the historic city of Cambridge, England.
We are proud to be named one of the UK’s Best Places to Work by GamesIndustry.biz.
Come join our talented team of programmers working on Elite Dangerous!

We are seeking someone with the knowledge, experience and passion to work on driver AI and the challenges of driving and navigating vehicles on complicated, rugged terrain. You will play a major role in developing new game features for planetary surfaces, taking responsibility for AI control of vehicles and working with the rest of the team to enhance gameplay.

As part of our gameplay programming team, you will work with Frontier’s proprietary COBRA engine and the game systems that create our simulation of the whole galaxy. You will build upon the physics, driving model, navigation and networking systems to create driving AI that understands and explores the surfaces of procedurally generated planets. Working in a cross-discipline game development team you will build an understanding of how vehicle AI fits into the wider game, and help the team to enhance the game with the opportunities that vehicle AI offers.

This is a great opportunity to work on solving new and exciting problems associated with creating AI which can navigate, drive and take part in combat over many different landscapes within a procedurally generated galaxy of over 400 billion star systems, and trillions of planetary surfaces.

Responsibilities

• Engage with QA testing and player feedback to improve the game experience
• Spread knowledge of vehicle AI, mentoring others in best practices
• Take ownership of the technical design and implementation of vehicle AI in the Elite Dangerous galaxy
• Work with the design and content teams to identify requirements and expose functionality
• Collaborate with other programmers to design and implement systems.

About you

• Held a programming role on at least one commercially released game for console or PC, developed primarily in C++
• Hands-on experience with game AI programming
• Knowledge of vehicle handling models
• Expertise with route planning, including understanding of performance and memory optimisation
• Worked as part of a large programming team developing a complex codebase
• Looking to develop their career as a programmer.

Desirable

• Direct experience developing vehicle AI for an open-world game
• Experience of networking player-controlled vehicles or other twitch gameplay systems
• Understanding of game physics engines and driving models
• Strong 3D maths and physics skills
• Familiarity with adding features post-release to games with active players.
• Cross-platform development experience including Xbox One or Playstation 4."

How do you know they've not hired someone and are now trying to find a 2nd person to enhance the team?

 

[Rubbernuke]

Don't laugh mate, it could end up as lame as that

 

[M00ka]

Without gameplay, the thing would be worthless. Just seen a random SRV driving around would not be worth the effort.

On which gameplay it could be, good question. In case of doubt, the pirate leader convoy might actually also has some AA-equiped SRVs along or something like that. Or we might get more structures (canyons, caves, etc. ) where ground attack becomes really hard or perhaps impossible. Along the lines of "the bandits use this underground cave system, wipe them out". And just no ship (and SLF! ) can fit through some of the tunnels down there, while an SRV can.

Another ideal would be like "control traffic around this base and eliminate those who try to bring illegal goods into it". As ships have, uh, problems targeting ground vehicles, it might be necessary to bring your own SRV to scan and destroy them.

But those are very specific scenarios. I right now can't come up with something more broadly applicable. But we'd really need something like that, to make NPC controlled SRVs really worth the effort.

Good reply, repped.

I think it would be quite foolish if FD allows NPCs to have different versions of the SRV (as you alluded to, the AA-equipped SRVs) without giving them to the players. Damn the forums would collapse with the amount of salt that would generate.

 

[sollisb]

But is what FD is after that ground breaking? They are after someone to design and program a ground based vehicle, not a space ship. Lots of games have NPC controlled vehicles, lets see some that I have played recently: Boarderlands, any of the Far Cry series, even Battlefield and Call of Duty have them. Yes they have to work on different surfaces with gravity etc considered but this should not be cutting edge technology. Not saying I could do it, hell I still have to think twice when using a microwave but what FD are asking for isn't something that has never been done before either.

It's not that it is groundbreaking at all. The difficulty is going to be finding someone that matches their requirements.

Someone that has worked on a full commercially released game, has the necessary experience, is unlikely to be living in the UK. Any other game companies in the UK developing land based vehicular movement and traversal? So this person will have to move, and there is no mention of 'package details' or if they are even willing to help defray costs.

Additionally, the engine is in-house so the person will not have never worked on it before. So it's a huge-unknown.

Even worse, there is no mention of salary or even a hint of expectation of what it might be.

If I for example was to move... I'd be looking for costs to help me move. I'd be asking for paid temporary accommodation for me and my family, and a salary that tops my current one by a huge margin. I see no mention of any of that kind of thing. For perspective... I've refused to move to companies for paying €75,000.

So.. Someone that did have even some of the qualification is going to ask? How much are you paying? Is it worth my while to move? Is it going to progress my career? Do my family want to move? What are the schools, environs like? What is this Cobra engine? Does it have any problems? Is it even capable of managing the requirement?

 

[Barking_Mad]

SRV Chase Simulation
Players: 2
Player 1: Human Cmdr.
Player 2: Human Cmdr. acting as NPC

Both players should go find a planetary landscape to drive and boost (essentially 'fly') around on. It should have a standard variety of hills, flats and mountains.

Players 2 (NPC) should chase Player 1 (Cmdr.) whilst making a conscious effort to observe how they make instinctive human decisions about applying boost, turn and pitch to land in just the right (rockless) spot, at speed, without crashing, so they can either: continue driving, turn to avoid something, or boost/brake to avoid another object/gap. Throw in a variety of gravity and surface variables which we all know can make driving more/less fun/difficult with the NPC spinning out and then re-gaining control. Throw in some hill climbing and avoiding getting stuck and/or tipping over and rolling down the mountain on a really regular basis. And if you throw in new planet types at some point with lava/methane lakes you might want to consider avoiding/boosting over them too. Oh and the NPC player should try to shoot the Cmdr whilst doing all of the above. Now swap roles so the NPC is being chased by the Cmdr.

Then there's doing all that over a network, with proc gen surfaces and objects - might be even harder if/when they add new surface terrain. Maybe NPC skill levels are a thing too, and no doubt loads of other stuff I'm not clever enough to have thought of.

ps. Just because it's advertised and not filled doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't already doing the role.

pps. Seems easy enough.

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

ps. Just because it's advertised and not filled doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't already doing the role.

I think some of those open positions are just fake. It's another intentional leak because FDEV doesn't want to say things straight. They're too afraid of another open letter with petition

 

[VR SenseiMatty]

Even AI driven SRVs restricted to bases would require a lot of terrain knowledge, but if they had some bases with only flat terrain and restricted the NPCs to those, it would bring the planetary game more alive than it is at present. Let them just drive around delivering 'data.' They don't all have to be 'battle NPCs' but a few would help.

I foresee large and wide plains for 2020