Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

[Idrillean]

Totally. The story needs to be presented 100% in game. The problem with solving in game though is it would require it to be easy enough for a majority to solve by themselves. This would mean that it will be solved in 1 second by someone with the right knowledge and the answer will be posted on reddit and forums immediately after, thereby rendering the puzzle meaningless. This is a problem.

It might be that they can continue the puzzles, but make the storyline not contingent on it, more like solvable side quests which can take longer to solve, and let the average players continue the story as it were through simpler stuff presented in game. Go to the right place, read the relevant text, takes you on to the next system, etc in a chain, like a quest. With PG its even possible to customize the experience for everyone, as long as everyone ends up at the same place.

I don't see why it should be made easier?

A.) You can overlay a browser on your game in order to stick to the forums. Although this could be in theory be solved if FD includes an ingame browser.

B.) I don't see why FDev should give you any tools to solve stuff. Although, an ingame notepad would be a great addition, yet, nothing you couldn't do on your desktop.

So, yeah, since everything's been made for mainstream, I don't see why the honeypots should be made THAT accessible. People really interested into figuring out stuff will eventually find their way to the respective places.

I really don't see why this has to be a World of Warcraft-Clone, telling you what to do, when to do it, how to do it and where to go.

Specially in a Sandbox-Experience, there'll be always spectators and participants. Easy as that. There's no need to serve everyone.
The only thing which has to be strict with is making the "starting"-information accessible for everyone. Now, if folks don't figure it out or don't stumble over it, it's their fault. Easy as that.

 

[Xenia_K]

I definitely agree we should be able to follow, crack and resolve these things IN GAME, rather than on the forums. I personally think the current solution is ridiculous, as it cuts out the storyline from the game. It feels totally disconnected, not to mention majority of players never getting a chance to do anything related, apart from reading GalNet news. In that context - I'm 100% with you!

That however doesn't mean there is no storyline - it's there, but, as I've said, it's disconnected.



Sorry!!!

I am sorry too, but for different reasons.
From my humble perspective, the BEST thing about Elite is that there is no scripted story and, like in real life, the Galaxy developes based on the actions of the participants.
Hence a totally scripted and moulded storyline INGAME for me would completely destroy that specific aspect of the game and considerably would be a reason not to play it.
That FD puts some salt into the soup for those which in different aspects like to have storyline-developement is nice, but forcing all players which just enjoy the mysteries of our Galaxy to participate would make the game less realistic

 

[Masheikh Scytale]

Rep +

 

[Idrillean]

but forcing all players which just enjoy the mysteries of our Galaxy to participate would make the game less realistic

And less attractive, of course. The "magic of the unknown" will have vanished.
Plus: It'd be no longer special to discover something for the first time.

It will be just: "The one who grinds fast and the most gets there first".

Wow. No, thank you. If I want to play a themepark, I just go play something with orcs, elves and so on.

 

[Xenia_K]

And less attractive, of course. The "magic of the unknown" will have vanished.
Plus: It'd be no longer special to discover something for the first time.

It will be just: "The one who grinds fast and the most gets there first".

Wow. No, thank you. If I want to play a themepark, I just go play something with orcs, elves and so on.

+rep, thx for bringing my thoughts to the point, I didnt know who to express it.

Add: I actually dont understand the haggle about ingame/outgame - someone really thinks in 34th century something similar to INet doesnt exist? So Commanders - Galaxywide - would exactly use all sources available to solve problems/mysteries they encounter, therefore there is no real logic about that discussion (at leat IMHO)

add2: I bet 50 Boxes of cookies that 95% of the people complaining "its not ingame" are using EDDB, INARA or similar, apologies to those which really play vanilla (as I did until joining CANONN )

 

[Idrillean]

add2: I bet 50 Boxes of cookies that 95% of the people complaining "its not ingame" are using EDDB, INARA or similar, apologies to those which really play vanilla (as I did until joining CANONN )

They are using whatever tool to gain advantage or profit. Now that they're facing something that can't be done that easily with a tool, there's the envy coming up. Although there ARE tools and there is always info shared to start their journey with, these folks are lazy and just looking for insta-gratification. I hate it.

 

[Xenia_K]

They are using whatever tool to gain advantage or profit. Now that they're facing something that can't be done that easily with a tool, there's the envy coming up. Although there ARE tools and there is always info shared to start their journey with, these folks are lazy and just looking for insta-gratification. I hate it.

yep - same people which choose a Dwarf as character in a D&D RP because of endurance and combat value and then whining that they have to fight instead of casting a spell .....
strike that, for D&D one needs fantasy, dilligence and patience, so they wont play it....

 

[Volimar]

Wow the thread has taken a turn. Elitist Dangerous now? Why are you giving people crap for how they play and calling them lazy etc. Is that the purview of Canonn group? Is that what this thread is for? Making yourselves feel better at the expense of your lessers? You've lost your way.

Personally I enjoy watching people's minds race to try to figure out the big mysteries, but I can definitely understand the people who want to do these things in game.

 

[CMDR Davanix]

They don't seem to have a problem - and players help

You do know alot of galnet is not to be taken seriously right? Also im pretty sure if you look at the size of the bubbled and estimate the total population im pretty sure there should be more news than one a day, hell pkanet earth has more than that now lol. But anyways news isnt all that needed to make story and substance i ould sit here amd just read galnet but when playing the game it needs to be felt also.

 

[rootsrat]

Well, if you want to solve puzzles off-game rather than actually PLAY the game to solve the puzzles, here's a great website: http://www.websudoku.com/

Now, can we haz the storyline related stuff in game pl0x FDEV?

 

[frostypaw]

You do know alot of galnet is not to be taken seriously right? Also im pretty sure if you look at the size of the bubbled and estimate the total population im pretty sure there should be more news than one a day, hell pkanet earth has more than that now lol. But anyways news isnt all that needed to make story and substance i ould sit here amd just read galnet but when playing the game it needs to be felt also.

Your claim was "and i dont think in a games storyline they can right the outside parts" - they did. EoS.

How do you want to 'feel' it? You can go do these things yourself and see it work yourself? should there be a cutscene?

 

[Arindor]

Hasn't the story fallen foul of the meta-game? Finding the ruins through the trailer rather than in-game clues? Or what about looking at crash logs as to why a location won't load?

 

[frostypaw]

that one is pretty awkward.....

----

Well, if you want to solve puzzles off-game rather than actually PLAY the game to solve the puzzles, here's a great website: http://www.websudoku.com/

Now, can we haz the storyline related stuff in game pl0x FDEV?

The trouble with insisting things are entirely solved in game with in game tools is that dramatically shrinks your toolset. You can see it in almost all modern games - puzzle solving is reduced to button pushing or block moving.
Why not think beyond the box? Many many many people have complained about modern puzzles being far too simple because of this restriction in mechanics - older games were very often played with pencil and paper to hand this is just more up to date surely?

 

[Zambrick]

The use of out of game EDDB style tools is fine by me. This is because there should already be something just like it in game. Nobody in the future times will be of the "Hey lets just go check it out" attitude. Especially if risking their own lives and ships. We already have said tools in RL for stock pricing and resource gathering. Why would you abandon that in 3302? They have access to an Instant communication network via GALNET. Where the game is missing the basic tools, external tools are being made. As for the puzzles and whatnot, they too need in game equivalent tools. Should be no reason to do these things out of game.

 

[Han_Zen]

Well, if you want to solve puzzles off-game rather than actually PLAY the game to solve the puzzles, here's a great website: http://www.websudoku.com/

Now, can we haz the storyline related stuff in game pl0x FDEV?

All the elements are in game. Some stuff like 'the hunt' was presented outside as well, but you would not have missed it if you didn't watch the Gamescon vids.

The issues are down to plain bugs.

As for solving the different elements the only thing that has required external tools, is the spectrogram of the UP. The rest can be done with pen and paper.

Any mystery linked to the main story of the game, has to be difficult. They will be solved collectively, no matter which in game tools you have. I think what we all which for is more interactivity like honking the UP, but a bit more advanced.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I think what could help is if FD used some of the existing in-game elements to provide a certain amount of exclusivity when it comes to revealing elements of the mysteries.

The current way of offline public announcements, floods of speculation, offline tools, mystery solved offline before 99% of players even knew it existed, and when you go and investigate there is almost zero in-game interaction anyway, isn't especially engaging.

Perhaps by revealing clues in-game only to those who have 'earned' them.

e.g. if FD were to introduce some new element to the UA/UP storyline, they could use Palin as the reveal point.
- Palin is the acknowledged in-game authority on UAs
- Having access to Palin requires a level of in-game effort including awareness of UAs
- Palin could offer an exclusive mission that contains a clue that could drive that part of the story forward.

Of course, the person who first gets the mission could choose to immediately post it.
Alternatively, they could choose to privately pursue it, attempting to solve it themselves, maybe only posting once they've found something new or if they are stuck and need help.

I think there are enough different agencies in the game to provide these kind of 'exclusives' to those who have done something in the game to access them:
- Minor faction reputations including lore-based factions (Sirius Corp., Dark Wheel, etc.)
- PP ranking
- Engineer ranking
- Permit access
- Mission completion Tip Offs
- etc.

Personally, I'd feel a lot more engaged if I found out about something in-game rather than through the forum.

 

[Idrillean]

Wow the thread has taken a turn. Elitist Dangerous now? Why are you giving people crap for how they play and calling them lazy etc. Is that the purview of Canonn group? Is that what this thread is for? Making yourselves feel better at the expense of your lessers? You've lost your way.
http://i.imgur.com/FidZknJ.gif


Personally I enjoy watching people's minds race to try to figure out the big mysteries, but I can definitely understand the people who want to do these things in game.

Well, hello Sir!

Actually, I think people should GET what they deserve based on their very own EFFORTS.

These EFFORTS > DO NOT < have to be grinding 24/7 to get something, but in THIS CASE, it requires you to use your BRAIN in order to achieve further steps into the right direction. Plus: NO ONE is excluding ANYONE from participating. To be honest, everyone is always able to participate by getting in touch with others when he isn't able to move on with a puzzle. That's the social aspect about this game.

So, no, don't try to turn around my words just to put yourself into a better position, because it's just nothing tolerable.

I think you guys even MISS what's the point of doing this puzzles, right? You don't get a reward. Contrary, you pretty much have to invest to get nothing back, than the knowledge, that you managed to solve it. That's it! No credits, no rank - nothing.

And yet, totally conform with a sandbox experience.

Hell, stop trying to turn this kind of games into themeparks.

 

[Thepirateorc]

Found it a destroyed base with a voice saying dont set foot on this facility
Col 285 sector fl-x b17-3 a 2 a
Long -142.58553
Lat -59.36044

 

[Tomtom]

For storytelling purposes, I'd like to see something akin to the journals that we had in FE2/FFE - additional news sources outside GalNet that we could subscribe to for a small (in game) fee. Science journals and conspiracy theory rags (for fans of this thread); Federal Times and Imperial Herald (both full of propaganda); Blue Hair Today (for the more easily manipulated commanders); and so on and so forth. All the better if we can receive breaking news notifications from them in our comms panel. It would be a lot of work for sure, especially if there were journals for each one of the powers, but it could add a lot more flavour to the game. These could also be open to player submissions, as the GalNet currently is, and who wouldn't want to write insane articles (such as finding an ancient London bus on a moon) for the conspiracy theorist paper?

As for the puzzles - I can see why people want to be able to solve them in game using in game tools, and I absolutely agree that should be a thing - but I also really enjoy the noodle-scratchers that require pen and paper and a little bit more. For me personally there should be a bit of both, but the game wasn't made for just me so it's really down to the preference of community as a whole. It's no easy task, though - if I can decrypt a mysterious transmission by asking the ship's computer to do it for me, where's the puzzle? The game mechanics as they stand right now don't really lend themselves to in-depth puzzle gaming, so it's going to take some very creative thinking to appease everyone - a bigger puzzle for the devs than for the players, unfortunately.

 

[CMDR Davanix]

Your claim was "and i dont think in a games storyline they can right the outside parts" - they did. EoS.

How do you want to 'feel' it? You can go do these things yourself and see it work yourself? should there be a cutscene?

But thats just it isnt it, see what work for myself, iv been in this and the fomadine thread since they were just a couple of explorers the only thing that actualy works and is exciting was the up emp tbh it could have escalated a bit from there but now its now gone off track to a ruin that doesnt bare much like its related what so ever, i was expecting the totems to do something rather than just pop up with a flashy crystal of nothingness, but nothing, plus the obelisks have human made or copied triangle isnignia in them so probably nothing to do with aliens at all or adleast show to be. I do enjoy the hunt, i do enjoy fds secrecy but for howlong is another question there is clues, mysterys and puzzles but there is also dragging things to proportion where your left discussing them on a forum for days rather than doing anything but wishfull hunting ingame. No hate is intended to anybodys ideas or taughts about the subject this is just my opinion and been playing so longi just want substance ina agame where i can now literly fit 10+ corvettes for nothing but grind.

- - - Updated - - -

But thats just it isnt it, see what work for myself, iv been in this and the fomadine thread since they were just a couple of explorers the only thing that actualy works and is exciting was the up emp tbh it could have escalated a bit from there but now its now gone off track to a ruin that doesnt bare much like its related what so ever, i was expecting the totems to do something rather than just pop up with a flashy crystal of nothingness, but nothing, plus the obelisks have human made or copied triangle isnignia in them so probably nothing to do with aliens at all or adleast show to be. I do enjoy the hunt, i do enjoy fds secrecy but for howlong is another question there is clues, mysterys and puzzles but there is also dragging things to proportion where your left discussing them on a forum for days rather than doing anything but wishfull hunting ingame. No hate is intended to anybodys ideas or taughts about the subject this is just my opinion and been playing so longi just want substance ina agame where i can now literly fit 10+ corvettes for nothing but grind.

I also point out fd didnt want this game to be teamwork based but wanted single pilot. Storys yet all it is now is 3 of the biggest groups famed constantly, there faction forums are being ignored by fd after the biggest groups got their place it just a bit demining