Am I playing a different game to everyone else?

Dr Roly · Dec 28, 2015

That's what it feels like, with all the posts about grinding and boredom in a lifeless galaxy. I can't see how ED is more grindy/worse dedigned/less immersive than other broad-scope MP games. I don't want to insult people who don't like the game, your opinions are valid, but personally I just can't see it.

What I will say is that so much criticism of ED just seems... unfair, when you compare ED to other modern games.
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Firstly, I can see ED is full of unrealized potential and there's a lot of broken stuff that needs fixing or rebalancing. FD certainly has a lot more work to do.

For the record, my main gripes are slow rank progression and sitting around in SC waiting for stuff to spawn - FD could do a lot better there.
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Re: Grinding. I honestly cannot think of one MP game that ISN'T about doing the same stuff over and over again. Someone tell me if there is a MP game with huge variety 'coz I'll be all over it.

More content would definitely be welcome, but I can think of a lot of AAA titles (MP and SP) that are WAY more repetitive.
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Re: Lack of variety. OK the missions get repetitive. However 99% of mission-based games boil down to fetch quest/win a race/escort/kill everything, repeated over and over again. More detailed tactics-based missions would be great, but again ED is better than many current games.
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Of course two wrongs don't make a right, but is ED really *that* bad?
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I realise this is subjective but for me ED has a visual splendour, sense of scale, sound design and sheer sense of occasion that is unmatched. I guess i'm the sort of gamer who doesn't need a constant quest to follow. I'm currently landed on the edge of a 6km deep canyon thousands of ly from home, gazing up at the distant core worlds whilst my Asp's systems beep and hum to me in the background. What other game gives you moments like that?
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My opinion of ED is so different from others I can only put it down to the following:
1) I'm in club '84. Maybe younger gamers have different expectations.
2) I play in VR. It makes the game come alive for me. Maybe you need VR to fully appreciate ED?
3) Maybe I just have weird standards for judging a good game.
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Anyway, meandering post over. The California Nebula beckons.

Bokugo · Dec 28, 2015

There's usually a lot more to grind for in other mmos. Rare drops should be coming soon hopefully though.
My complaint against the grind isn't that there is a grind, it's that there is only 1 or 2 ways to make any "progress", which like it or not, is your wallet size 9 times out of 10. If I want to make money, I can ONLY trade or RES hunt it feels like. If I want rank, why in this universe would I do a mission that takes 10-30 minutes to complete, has a chance to destroy my ship/cost a lot in repairs, and barley pays enough for the fuel and ammo when I can just give a few thousand credits for the same effect(or better even) on reputation in literal seconds?
There are a lot of valid complaints, but the reason so many people dislike seeing them is because they pop up so much. FD needs to get to work on quelling those complaints not adding more junk for a multiplayer game without even fixing the broken multiplayer aspect. Then we might not get 100 complaints a day.

milligna · Dec 28, 2015

I knew when I started reading this that you played in VR too. I've had the same feeling the past year: what game are these guys playing? I adore this amazing thing. Sure it could improve in many departments, but they have a longterm plan to improve it. It's STILL the best VR game out there right now and a delight to putter around in.

Everyone has different tastes so additions others may love they see as "more junk." People just need to take a step back and realize there are many different types of gamers who play this game and pleasing all of them at once is a tad impossible.

Futuristic Kung Fu · Dec 28, 2015

HEART ATTACK!!!

CATPAIN KIRK · Dec 28, 2015

Dr Roly said:
My opinion of ED is so different from others I can only put it down to the following:
1) I'm in club '84. Maybe younger gamers have different expectations.
2) I play in VR. It makes the game come alive for me. Maybe you need VR to fully appreciate ED?
3) Maybe I just have weird standards for judging a good game.

I'd say you provided your own explanation.

I'm in club '85 (C64 release), play in VR and mostly play niche games. I couldn't imagine having played ED for more than a couple of hours if it wasn't for the VR experience.

Having a glass of wine, a cigar, entering a virtual galaxy and effectively transforming the room into a virtual cockpit is one of the most relaxing things I have ever done after a hard days work.

What I do in the game doesn't matter all that much to me as long as I can have that experience, which is why I don't perceive it as a grind.
Take the VR relaxation factor away and I can understand why people call it a grind.

Tenshi · Dec 28, 2015

Dr Roly said:
That's what it feels like, with all the posts about grinding and boredom in a lifeless galaxy. I can't see how ED is more grindy/worse dedigned/less immersive than other broad-scope MP games. I don't want to insult people who don't like the game, your opinions are valid, but personally I just can't see it.

What I will say is that so much criticism of ED just seems... unfair, when you compare ED to other modern games.
-
Firstly, I can see ED is full of unrealized potential and there's a lot of broken stuff that needs fixing or rebalancing. FD certainly has a lot more work to do.

For the record, my main gripes are slow rank progression and sitting around in SC waiting for stuff to spawn - FD could do a lot better there.
-
Re: Grinding. I honestly cannot think of one MP game that ISN'T about doing the same stuff over and over again. Someone tell me if there is a MP game with huge variety 'coz I'll be all over it.

More content would definitely be welcome, but I can think of a lot of AAA titles (MP and SP) that are WAY more repetitive.
-
Re: Lack of variety. OK the missions get repetitive. However 99% of mission-based games boil down to fetch quest/win a race/escort/kill everything, repeated over and over again. More detailed tactics-based missions would be great, but again ED is better than many current games.
-
Of course two wrongs don't make a right, but is ED really *that* bad?
-
I realise this is subjective but for me ED has a visual splendour, sense of scale, sound design and sheer sense of occasion that is unmatched. I guess i'm the sort of gamer who doesn't need a constant quest to follow. I'm currently landed on the edge of a 6km deep canyon thousands of ly from home, gazing up at the distant core worlds whilst my Asp's systems beep and hum to me in the background. What other game gives you moments like that?
-
My opinion of ED is so different from others I can only put it down to the following:
1) I'm in club '84. Maybe younger gamers have different expectations.
2) I play in VR. It makes the game come alive for me. Maybe you need VR to fully appreciate ED?
3) Maybe I just have weird standards for judging a good game.
-
Anyway, meandering post over. The California Nebula beckons.

I am with you on a lot of points, I honestly can not see why people don't like the game. I sit here and play it thinking about what we might see in the future and how cool it would be when its fully realised. All the while I am out doing my own thing and not having my hand held with quest markers pointing the way.

Would rather play ED than any other game out there at the moment and just going through a really rough patch in my life its nice to just kick back and fly around the galaxy and forget about the outside world. If it wasn't for this game I would of gone insane or worse.

Sugarat · Dec 28, 2015

I think it is too easy to focus on what isn't there rather than what is.. FD have made a great game, and as said in the OP, there is much that can be built onto it..
Personally, I have played 1500 hours in the last 13 months, started exploring 2 days ago and have found a new hobby

There is a lot that can be improved upon and I am confident that given the time and support FD will deliver an even more amazing game..
They have already set the bar for modern space sims, one which the competition will struggle to raise imo..

mbar · Dec 28, 2015

I bet VR is awesome to look at from the little I've seen on youtube about it. Even having TrackIR adds to the immersion (got it as a present). That experience can be had in a sidewinder or a cutter.

Deareim · Dec 28, 2015

Even if we put all other problems aside, how can you not say that the game is lifeless....
It discredits completely your post.

Theta Sigma · Dec 28, 2015

Futuristic Kung Fu said:
HEART ATTACK!!!

Nice cross-thread callback ;-)

+rep

Jet Fusion · Dec 28, 2015

Making the statement that all critics compare ED to other games is wrong. Some do, but most do not. It's about the love and passion of this product and what it could be.

Futuristic Kung Fu · Dec 28, 2015

Deareim said:
Even if we put all other problems aside, how can you not say that the game is lifeless....
It discredits completely your post.

Your post discredits completely your post. Sorry, I'm just not sure what you mean.

grae3107 · Dec 28, 2015

I reckon most people complain about the grind because for more than a decade or two every space game is all out blowing stuff to pieces in set battles. No waiting, just point and shoot, earn credits and upgrade. This is an evolution of a classic game that was all about taking your time and discovering the universe for yourself.

And as Taylor Swift would say...

Grinders gonna grind, grind, grind
Moaners gonna moan, moan, moan
FDev gonna shake it off, shake it off

Garbarrage · Dec 28, 2015

There is the potential for there to be an awful lot of grind in this game. CZs, Bounty Hunting, Trading, Smuggling.... PP in particular is pretty much designed around grinding, which I think is a shame really. Luckily, there is a variety of things to do, so that when one activity becomes too grindy, you can move on to something else.

There are ways of making the game less grindy, but the sacrifices made to keep the scale of the galaxy and the data economy at an optimal level will make it extremely difficult. I have no doubts that FD are aware of these issues. Several of their live streams and Q&As where the question has been raised, the Devs have been visibly unsatisfied with these issues, and will no doubt do their best to come up with a solution. If they can, they will.

Having said that. Once you decide to stop chasing credits, get involved in the emergent gameplay. Bask in the enormity of the environment and make the best you can of it, all the grind goes away. It's a big ask, but as they seem willing to do their best, I'm willing to make the best of it. The game will evolve, and as the options become available, the technology progresses, or the funding for better servers which can deliver more programming solutions become available, I have no doubts that FD will utilise them to the best of their ability.

In short, there's grind present in the game, but there doesn't need to be. Not everything works as it should, but it is possible to inform the relevant people without stamping your feet and spitting your dummy. Patience may be required, and an open mind if the solution offered isn't the exact solution that you want. You don't have to buy the expansions right away (although doing so will help provide better content). -> Not all of these points are relevant to this thread, but they are a general overview answer to the typical doomsday hyperbolic rant posts.

It's not perfect, but it is epic nonetheless.

Ashnak · Dec 28, 2015

Going back to the original question - you might be.

I'm pretty new to E

(not so new to computers and computer gaming, though), and after a little fooling around (basic missions, no combat, never slave trading) I'm currently off exploring. I've been reading around a bit in the Explorer's sub-forum, then came over to the general forum (it can get a bit boring, crossing brown dwarf fields or looking up secondary stars a few 100 kls off the jump point) and, after reading a few posts, asked myself exactly the same question.

My impression is that someone sold these guys(?) E

as a space combat game, maybe like Wing Commander (I said I'm old, didn't I? - ok, make that Escape Velocity?). And that's exactly what E

isn't. If you expect it to be, you'll be disappointed. And you'll be playing a different game than I am.
E

is an SF galactic simulation, and what's happening inside the bubble is only a very small part of it. If you think you have to grind, go ahead - but nobody's forcing you to. If you think you need the biggest, shiniest ship with the strongest guns and impermeable armour - well, there's always someone with a bigger car. But don't let me stop you. I will go on to look around and see what's out there and enjoy the game.

Bokugo · Dec 29, 2015

Ashnak said:
Going back to the original question - you might be.

I'm pretty new to E (not so new to computers and computer gaming, though), and after a little fooling around (basic missions, no combat, never slave trading) I'm currently off exploring. I've been reading around a bit in the Explorer's sub-forum, then came over to the general forum (it can get a bit boring, crossing brown dwarf fields or looking up secondary stars a few 100 kls off the jump point) and, after reading a few posts, asked myself exactly the same question.

My impression is that someone sold these guys(?) E as a space combat game, maybe like Wing Commander (I said I'm old, didn't I? - ok, make that Escape Velocity?). And that's exactly what E isn't. If you expect it to be, you'll be disappointed. And you'll be playing a different game than I am.
E is an SF galactic simulation, and what's happening inside the bubble is only a very small part of it. If you think you have to grind, go ahead - but nobody's forcing you to. If you think you need the biggest, shiniest ship with the strongest guns and impermeable armour - well, there's always someone with a bigger car. But don't let me stop you. I will go on to look around and see what's out there and enjoy the game.

Go watch the trailers then come back and tell us what main activity is put on display throughout pretty much all of them. I'll give you a hint, it's combat.

Iskariot · Dec 29, 2015

This evening I flew around and did battle in a gorgeously lit asteroid ring around a huge blue gas giant and it gave me goosebumps.
The battle was awesome, the ships looked magnificent, the explosions were marvelous, the sounds awesome.

I know we all have things we wish for, but...

I am playing a spacesim the likes has never existed before, nothing in existence comes close.
There is a multitude of diverse and highly customizable ships.
The flight and combat mechanics are just awesome.
The game's galaxy is incomprehensibly huge and detailed.

I just launched into space from a cratered planet were I drove around in an SRV and flew to an outpost in close orbit inside the rings of a gas giant.

Just imagine what ED enables us to do.
If you look at that big picture it is breathtaking what FD has done so far.
It is all I ever wished for when I was playing Elite, x-wing, tie-fighter and the x games so many years ago.

Yes we want it to become better and more and bigger and... whatever... Of course we do.
We are all very spoiled gamers and we are accustomed to a lot of high quality games.
But this is a huge 10 year project. Give it time.

What ED enables us to do now, the scale, the quality of it, the detail... it is unheard of.
6 years ago I had all but given up on spacesims.

Look at us now!

Grumpy181155 · Dec 29, 2015

Bokugo said:
Go watch the trailers then come back and tell us what main activity is put on display throughout pretty much all of them. I'll give you a hint, it's combat.

While I was reading this thread I was thinking exactly what you wrote. Don't get me wrong because I love ED but the promo gives the exact wrong impression.

Juluka · Dec 29, 2015

Deareim said:
Even if we put all other problems aside, how can you not say that the game is lifeless....
It discredits completely your post.

No it doesn't. OP has his opinion, you have yours. Neither is more valuable than the other.

The difference is, the OP is happy.

h347h · Dec 29, 2015

First off, FD nailed combat. No other space sim game even gets a 4 out of 10 in my book and ED got a 9.5 out of 10 from me. That for me not only sets it far apart from the rest of the crowd but makes the rest of the things they accomplish very well echo what they are trying to do with the game. Elite is so much more than just combat though. I mean the ability to use community goals to tell a story which then becomes canon within the game is amazing. Then you get the opportunity to leave your mark on the legacy of the galaxy buy building stations or improving stations with in the game. I have backed SC for more than I would like to admit but sadly I doubt ill be doing much other than Squadron 42 after that I'll be back here for the next 9 years.

I also use VR and I find that it greatly enhances the game for me. The sense of scale when driving next to my multirole Anaconda on the surface of a planet constantly leaves me with a gasp as I see how large that observation deck is from the ground.