AMD Mantle Support?

[Shintai]

Consider that without Mantle there probably would not have been a Dx12 - and absolutely not this fast. MS simply didn't care until they came under threat.

Thats another false statement. DX12 have been in development for years and was scheduled for Windows 10. Also why you can see such a broad support of the API. Haswell, Broadwell, Fermi, Kepler, Maxwell, GCN.

And back in march on GDC 2014 DX12 was demoed with Forza 5 demo on nVidia hardware. Thats not something you put together over night.

However a certain person from a certain company was foolish enough to claim there would be no DX12.

 

[Seldarine]

You might want to consider that without Mantle there probably would not have been a Dx12 - and absolutely not this fast. MS simply didn't care until they came under threat.

I am completely aware of this, but I think it would be naive to think that AMD developed Mantle to spur MS into action in this area. They brought out Mantel to get an edge over their rivals and generate huge PR.

However I do personally regard AMD as the more ethical of the 2 companies so who knows.

Oh and I forgot to mention, with their APUs so strong in the GFX department and so weak in the CPU cycles, Mantle is also a very good way for AMD to shore up some of their CPU performance loss. If it was the other way round, and their APUs were bottlenecked in gaming by the GPU cores, I doubt the company would have funnelled so much cash into Mantle development.

 

[adoredtv]

I am completely aware of this, but I think it would be naive to think that AMD developed Mantle to spur MS into action in this area. They brought out Mantel to get an edge over their rivals and generate huge PR.

However I do personally regard AMD as the more ethical of the 2 companies so who knows.

Oh and I forgot to mention, with their APUs so strong in the GFX department and so weak in the CPU cycles, Mantle is also a very good way for AMD to shore up some of their CPU performance loss. If it was the other way round, and their APUs were bottlenecked in gaming by the GPU cores, I doubt the company would have funnelled so much cash into Mantle development.

Yes it's part of their overall strategy. Fact is, CPUs shouldn't really matter in gaming but games were being held back by DirectX so that only a single fast-core mattered. Mantle was more an attempt to shore up AMD's CPUs than anything else, by removing the Dx12 bottleneck. Dx12 is a huge win for them as it'll basically put them on CPU parity (while gaming) with Intel and as you rightly say, their APUs will get even more of a win.

This stuff is incredibly interesting from an AMD standpoint. With Crossfire being so amazing under Mantle, and the ability to mix discrete GPU and APU graphics (while sharing fast memory with HSA) the sky could be the limit. AMD are really good at screwing up their advantages though, you probably noticed.

 

[Shintai]

The problem is any gains are short term. Mantle or DX12. As soon as the CPU resources used on the overhead is gone, its just going to get used on something else and you sit in the exact same spot again. Just with better games. And it will only get worse for the slower CPUs. Bench below is with a terrible DX driver tho.




And again, the ugly face of a poorly designed API.

 

[adoredtv]

The main issue with DirectX is "stalling" and that should mostly be removed with Dx12. This is why Mantle shows much better minimum framerates than DirectX - it doesn't have the dips where DirectX becomes extremely serial and chokes even the fastest core.

No reasonably-fast CPU should ever be taxed by gaming, it's just a flaw in the system (DirectX) that we are currently suffering. Most of the other improvements in Mantle/Dx12 are GPU-oriented (compute shaders etc) and shouldn't affect CPU performance much if at all.

 

[Shintai]

The main issue with DirectX is "stalling" and that should mostly be removed with Dx12. This is why Mantle shows much better minimum framerates than DirectX - it doesn't have the dips where DirectX becomes extremely serial and chokes even the fastest core.

No reasonably-fast CPU should ever be taxed by gaming, it's just a flaw in the system (DirectX) that we are currently suffering. Most of the other improvements in Mantle/Dx12 are GPU-oriented (compute shaders etc) and shouldn't affect CPU performance much if at all.

Not seeing those better minimums. The delta is still around the same.


And you are still going to need strong CPU.

 

[adoredtv]

And again, the ugly face of a poorly designed API.
View attachment 10656

Actually Mantle does what it should do - makes the game run much faster on slower (single threaded) CPUs.



As you can see, the multi-threaded nature of the API really helps to alleviate the real issue - a really poorly coded game. I'm sure you knew that already though.

Maybe this one will help to bring the true value of the API to your focus?



Check out those minimums. And holy crap at this horrible green stutter - what's that all about?



How much did you pay for your 980 again Shintai?

 

[Acen ONYX]

Hey, HAPPY NEW YEAR, everyone!

Just found this -- yes, I'm behind the times a bit and reading to "catch up"..

Since we're over a YEAR on from the advent of MANTLE, does anyone have any fresh info they already know about? (As opposed to hunting it out, which I'm gonna skip for now, as looking at other stuff online real quick..)

Obvs, DX12 is by now v well established.. but is EVERYONE on DX12 and not Mantle, if given the option?

Just wondered...

(Now, I'm also not a big Forum user - and am a relatively NEW FD forumite, too - so while I've seen the term "necro", and think i know what that means, I hope my raising this Q or two about Mantle is not anything too late or overdue or "necro" re this thread... But please tell me if it is - and accept my apologies. Thanks!)

 

[Optiim]

Mantle is pretty much dead vulkan is what is left of it.

 

[Acen ONYX]

Thanks.

I actually just saw mention of VULKAN in a features list on the AMD website, while double-checking on my CPU .. APU ..
.. but didn't look it up. Will check it out -- thanks, Optiim.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

...aaand, apologies to all.. I'm REALLY behind the times.

For anyone interested, here's the article I've just found, which kinda brings me mostly up-to-date... (kinda)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8962/the-directx-12-performance-preview-amd-nvidia-star-swarm

Enjoy!