PvP An incident in open

[John Tenzer]

One of the most exploity things in this game is logging in and out to refresh mission boards etc and nearly everyone does it.

So yeah, it is an exploit, but an exploit FDev doesn't care about.

Well, I don't. I just deal with the stuff offered there and customize either/and/or my ship and route around it. If life gives you lemons and stuff...!

Also I don't shoot people in open on sight or station-scooter them.

On the other hand I'd stopped playing open a long time ago, because some others did, so....

 

[Darkfyre99]

One of the most exploity things in this game is logging in and out to refresh mission boards etc and nearly everyone does it.

So yeah, it is an exploit, but an exploit FDev doesn't care about.

I agree it is an exploit, but I most certainly don't use it. I find it absurdly easy to make money in this game as it is, so certainly I don't need to make it even easier by using exploits, whether they are acknowledged by Frontier or not.

There is, however, a difference between Frontier not caring about something, and something being low on their priority list. The day Frontier finally invests the time to do something about that is the day I get some popcorn to take advantage of all the salt that will be generated.

 

[babelfisch]

One of the most exploity things in this game is logging in and out to refresh mission boards etc and nearly everyone does it.

So yeah, it is an exploit, but an exploit FDev doesn't care about.

I never refresh the mission boards, and yes, it's an exploit.

 

[GreyAreaUK]

---redacted---

 

[Oggy85]

Highwaking from 1 v 1 is close to cheating tbh.

Now this is silly. C-logging is definitely not fair thing to do in a dog fight.

Escaping with FSD (low or high wake) is admitting defeat and running for your life (role play vise).

Should we simply lower our shields, reboot our powerplant and perhaps trigger self destruct sequence when you start shooting on us...

 

[ALGOMATIC]

Now this is silly. C-logging is definitely not fair thing to do in a dog fight.

Escaping with FSD (low or high wake) is admitting defeat and running for your life (role play vise).

Should we simply lower our shields, reboot our powerplant and perhaps trigger self destruct sequence when you start shooting on us...

Its an opinion shared by many in the PvP community, even 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2.

You fight to the death. Sure you can highwake, but it will be held against you.

 

[Morbad]

Only time my CMDR feels compelled to stick around when he's capable of leaving is if he's explicitly agreed to, which is a rare occurrence.

As a player, I play by the rules of the game and try to avoid even gray areas, but within those boundaries, my CMDR has zero pretensions to honor and will almost always attempt to prevent the loss of a vessel he's in.

 

[sovapid]

Its an opinion shared by many in the PvP community, even 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2.

You fight to the death. Sure you can highwake, but it will be held against you.

This depends, Type 7 vs FDL is still PVP, but highly asymmetric PVP.

If I'm cruisin around in a Type 7 and get jumped by an FDL I'll be high waking like a pro.

 

[Oggy85]

This depends, Type 7 vs FDL is still PVP, but highly asymmetric PVP.

If I'm cruisin around in a Type 7 and get jumped by an FDL I'll be high waking like a pro.

^^ This.

 

[Martian Successor]

Its an opinion shared by many in the PvP community, even 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2.

You fight to the death. Sure you can highwake, but it will be held against you.

It's an opinion held mostly by SDC and the groups that want to be considered cool by them. Holding a high wake against someone is a shaming tactic used to play meme-wars and wage salt campaigns.

High waking irks some because it means they cannot register a kill on their opponent, forgetting the fact that it means you beat them and they conceded defeat.

 

[Morbad]

I have no more shame in high-waking from a single inferior vessel, if that is what proves necessary for my CMDR to save his ship, than I do waking from two full wings of superior vessels.

High waking irks some because it means they cannot register a kill on their opponent, forgetting the fact that it means you beat them and they conceded defeat.

I'm one of those survival is victory enough types, and in a game where survival via magical ejection seat, if nothing else, is guaranteed, I rarely feel defeated. I don't particularly care what my opponents feel and if we both claim victory, so be it.

This is one of the reasons why, as a player, I think PvP would be greatly improved by patching some loopholes and fleshing out various long-neglected aspects of the game.

You cannot have a tangible victory without inflicting losses that can actually be felt, and the game, as is, prevents any sort of tangible loss, except to foolish newbies who race to some arbitrary goal without experience enough to handle it then don't provision for the inevitable insurance claim.

 

[ALGOMATIC]

This depends, Type 7 vs FDL is still PVP, but highly asymmetric PVP.

If I'm cruisin around in a Type 7 and get jumped by an FDL I'll be high waking like a pro.

I meant 1 v 1 duel of equal ships, not ganking a type7 with an FDL, by all means high wake in that case.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

It's an opinion held mostly by SDC and the groups that want to be considered cool by them. Holding a high wake against someone is a shaming tactic used to play meme-wars and wage salt campaigns.

High waking irks some because it means they cannot register a kill on their opponent, forgetting the fact that it means you beat them and they conceded defeat.

For god sakes, they even do it!

 

[ryan_m]

For god sakes, they even do it!

Prove it.

 

[Oggy85]

In proper fight (even when FdL interdicts T7) C-log (task killing, menu log or whatever the method) is completely wrong and breaks game experience.

Here I'm not referring to cheep station ganking as that is also game braking experience IMO and should not be allowed.... If someone pulls that on you, I cannot blame people for logging back to menu and frankly it is one exploit against another...

Use of FSD, SCB, chaff, ECM and any other ship equipment to survive an attack/combat is not cheating, you can think differently, but that is your opinion. It might not be brave act but it is using perfectly valid game mechanics.

I like to have immersion and playing in open is definitely more filled with adrenaline. If you like immersion, you will try to stay "alive". Some may role play to be a crazy killers that will stay in fight until they kill or get killed.

Both are valid. Be brave sir Robin or mad max but play the game fair and try not to brake game experience to others just because you know how to band game rules and bypass limitations.

 

[babelfisch]

I meant 1 v 1 duel of equal ships, not ganking a type7 with an FDL, by all means high wake in that case.

If two players agree on a fight to the death and one of them decides to run when he gets a beating I agree, it's bad form. But how often does this happen?

 

[Stigbob]

So...
You're kind of a bad pilot (maybe you should use a docking computer...)

Where did you get that idea from ?.

with a really bad internet connection, so you don't PvP unless you have to.

Or unless I want to, I sometimes hunt noob killers and gankers.

Here's the thing, since your internet connection is admittedly "shaky", it's more than likely that much of your experience with cloggers is the fault of your shaky internet connectivity. Noobs will often stick around to fight, just because they don't know when to run. In these cases I'm always glad to offer sound advice. But you can't give any advice to someone who just vanishes and adds you to their block list. As you say, there are viable alternatives to clogging. People should learn how to use them.

Why would my connection fail just after the shields of my attacker drop.

They clearly don't have an issue with defining certain behaviors as exploits, yet they never define the cash grabs as such. Even the ones they patch out.
Board refreshing falls along the same lines. Neither have been defined as an exploit or a cheat, as much as you seem to wish they had.

It would be nicer for everyone if there was a refresh button for the mission boards.

Not knowing the refresh time is not an indicator of how much board switching you do... it only indicates that you don't care about it.
I don't care why people combat log. It has been defined as a cheat, therefore people should stop doing it.
Furthermore, I don't care if FDEV deals with cloggers harshly, I only want them to be dealt with effectively.

An exploits and exploit, use them or don't it's your choice. But using one (or more, or all) whilst condemning another isn't very convincing.

Harsh usually is effective as a deterrent.

For someone who pushes the block list the way you do, one would think you would have a better grasp of its mechanics.

Here's some specifics for you.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...ners-advice-on-dealing-with-griefing-(part-2)
I'm still getting regular rep for that thread.

 

[Stigbob]

^This.

Doing it without getting fined/rammed/splattering someone is a skill worth learning, it also means never getting caught whilst smuggling.

You're welcome to hunt me anytime. I'm currently living in Maia.

My connection would probably get shaky when your shields drop.

Because your internet connection got shaky.

You should try putting them up on reddit. It can be cathartic..

Reddit is a silly place, although I did discuss and consider setting up a people worth blocking list there.

Again, none of the things you're complaining about are considered cheats or exploits by FDEV. If they make an announcement that these things are cheats or exploits, I'll be the first to stop using them.

"It's OK because I wasn't specifically told not to do the obviously bad thing" isn't any more compelling an argument than "ban this exploit as it's the one I don't use".

Harsh punishment is in no way an effective deterrent to anything. You're not happy the engineer exploiters are still around, I get that... but I don't want anyone banned for combat logging. I just want it to stop. .

Block them.

I'm sure. You certainly spam the heck out of that link.

I do yes, but only as often as people complain I use the block function.

I wonder how many times you've been reported for it so far.

Loads I imagine. At a guess I'd say it gets reported by the same people who follow me round totally unrelated threads to complain at me about it. And since I post the link in response to that the mods can probably see that and ignore it.

Similar to SDC's combat logging reports being ignored.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But you can't give any advice to someone who just vanishes and adds you to their block list.

Indeed. They already got advice and a working solution.

 

[Arguendo]

Its an opinion shared by many in the PvP community, even 3 vs 3 or 2 vs 2.

You fight to the death. Sure you can highwake, but it will be held against you.

I meant 1 v 1 duel of equal ships, not ganking a type7 with an FDL, by all means high wake in that case.

Which is it? 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3? What about fights at CGs that just emerge? The bar keeps moving back and forth depending on who's trying to place it.
And this is also coming from players that consider station ganking "just part of the game."

So...
If you came back and had a decent explanation for what happened, I think you might be surprised.

In my experience, video evidence is a requirement or you're branded a clogger. No ifs or buts; "show me your video or you go on the subreddit".