I know this old trick in order to make me confess i am in the Dark s....
Damnit!
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I know this old trick in order to make me confess i am in the Dark s....
Damnit!
Yes but the key difference is it only effects the clogger so as cheats go it's as minor as they can be, other cheats such as station moider japes effect everyone except the cheat and as such are more serious.
Actually clogging, much like clog dancing, does indeed affect others. For example, if a dastardly balloon (swear filter is strict yo) knows they can always just pull the plug to completely avoid the consequences of being a dastardly balloon then there truly is nothing to stop them from breaking Wheaton's law all over Open wherever they want. The station blocker in the OP's scenario is a good example of this. If a bunch of us decide to hunt the guy down like the player bounty hunters that this game is supposed to support btw, and we kill him enough times he will retreat to Solo/PG for a while until he gets his rebuy cash supply back up. Thus saving a couple of players from being hassled by him for a couple days.
If on the other hand he just C-logs every time he's about to die, including when the station itself is trying to kill him, well then he can simply carry on with ultimate impunity and hassle other players till his heart's content. That is a pretty significant problem in my opinion. And I haven't even mentioned how the player piracy playstyle (say that 3 times) is pretty much ruined by players who c-log during an interdiction.
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You are right, comparing task killing with engineer cheats, the engineer cheat is worse. The engineer cheat has been dealt with, its closed case as of today.
Task killing is the only cheat that remains un-patched atm.
Station ramming is not a cheat.
I'm quite binary on the matter.
Yes, high waking is basically just another form of cheating anyway
True... Guess why I seek shelter in the PvP forum?
Yes, high waking is basically just another form of cheating anyway
Highwaking from 1 v 1 is close to cheating tbh.
The ability to high-wake in a matter of seconds, barring the application of very niche weapons and/or completely overwhelming firepower, then be impossible to follow (if you have any sense), is a prime example of a poor mechanism that is also clearly not cheating.
Just because it's dumb and one-sided doesn't mean it's not completely intended.
Ah, thanks for the update on that. I skimmed through the thread before posting but didn't see whether or not it was a menu log.
That particular comment may be tongue in cheek, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if removing combat logging (not that it can really be done) just caused the campaigning to shift focus onto the other ways people escape griefers.
top kek
I am sorry to say but thinking Ramming mechanic dealing damage is intended is too mainstream. You can't ram and damage a star or a black hole. Why should you be able to ram a station, a planet or a ship ?!
It is exactly the same for people exploring and scanning systems. It is exploiting a game mechanic and spoil my fun : in other words it is definitely cheating.
/s
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I said 1 v 1, not ganking.
Dastardly balloons generally have effectively limitless rebuy thanks to also exploiting space-cash, hence stuff like the suicide ramming orca. The new karma thing won't work either for the same reason.
Griefers clog all the time, it's just part of cheating. Piracy has been damaged more by gankers/griefers claiming to be pirates than anything else, it's so common people just assume it's more of the same.
The engineer cheat was never dealt with, the modules were removed but all cash, rep, kills and ships gained with exploited modules were kept. That's not punishment, it's just removal of one of the artificial advantages gained.
So we all got hit with the speed limit hammer because station ramming isn't considered naughty by FDEV then ?.
I'm quite binary on the matter.
Yep, and so are the cheats you either cheat or you don't it's binary as you say. Anyone who exploits or cheats will clog at the drop of a hat, but it's still a minor thing compared with the other things they do.
I'm sorry but I don't speak fluent drivel.
Yeah, like I say, I realise your comment isn't a perfect example.
Regardless, it's obvious that most of the complaining (in general, not from you specifically) about combat logging is driven by a desire to trap people in combat rather than by a moral stand against exploits, especially in the wake of the engineering exploit. That being the case, it's equally obvious that getting rid of combat logging would merely redirect those players' energy onto whatever is the next most reliable way to escape combat. Menu logging most likely, since there is already some hand-wringing about it. Who knows after that; probably something like high waking not being affected by mass lock and/or mass lock not being cumulative with multiple ships. Not to mention more subtle goals like reducing TTK.
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Well let's start by dealing with one issue at a time. Start penalising repeat offenders (3 strikes and you're out) by costing them the rebuy of their ship every time they do the log of combat. Then plug up the holes that allows an exploit to be used for limitless space-cash. With those things addressed eventually they will be whittled down to semi-gadgilionaire levels of petty cash. If the worst thing to come out of that is to make sure the super rich dastardly balloons stay in the game to eat their rebuys then that would be a resoundingly positive thing for the bounty hunting play style and less of an embarrassment for the multiplayer nature of the game as a whole.
Still doesn't remove the fact that rampant abuse of C-logging if left uncontrolled pretty much puts a dead end on more than one of the advertised features of the game. Ergo it affects other players and is a problem. Ergo I got to use the word "ergo" and that tickles me.
Yeah... it's like running away from a fight in town on a Saturday night and jumping on a bus just because you'd get beaten up... you should stay in the area so the bully can find you again! [yesnod]
One of the most exploity things in this game is logging in and out to refresh mission boards etc and nearly everyone does it.
So yeah, it is an exploit, but an exploit FDev doesn't care about.
The hard part apparently is separating cloggers, connection issues and people performing naughty connection shenanigans to disconnect other players. If FDEV can crack that, then they should have at it however they like. The problem is whacking innocents with the hammer who like me have a shaky rural connection or following an update when the game seems to regularly get unstable for everyone.
It's an issue but a minor one I think, If pushed into a corner cloggers will just finally git-gud at the Sir Robin maneuver, which isn't exactly challenging and would still be unsatisfying for the players who really want to see things explode. I'd set clogging priority below C&P, cash exploits, greifer banning and pretty much every QOL improvement there could be.
Any get rich quick scheme they patch out is clearly regarded by them as an exploit.
The only players who've ever clogged on me have all been failed gankers who initiated the fight then clogged when it went wrong, I rarely initiate PVP though so I'm not really up on how noobs or the unarmed react.
One of the problems there is now FDEV have set a precedent for dealing with cheats in a less than harsh way, any action they take in future will likely be along the same lines. So the chances of them dealing harshly enough to deter naughtiness with cloggers or any other kind of cheat are pretty much zero.
The speed limit doesn't effect me, I land at full speed and use the control tower as a brake. The fact remains it was inflicted on all because of a few, who then switched to small ship suicide attacks instead. It would have been less hassle for FDEV and all the legit players to scare the ramming griefers away from doing it with some publicized example bans to the shadow server.
If you are fine with exploiting to make space-cash (quince), why do you have a problem with people exploiting to avoid losing space cash in a rebuy (cloggers). There's no difference between the two to a legit player like me.
Well given he can't instance with me, why would I care.
This is the problem with claims clogging is a game breaker, there are legit alternatives that work and it paints the whole argument as "I'm a PK'er give me targets".
Increase the board refresh time, make it pointless to hang around. High enough to deter switching low enough so that people running poop between two stations have new missions on arrival at the second station or even tie the refresh to a system change.
I don't actually know what the current refresh time is, which shows you how much switching I do.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://d2aefvhu2f0gi9.cloudfront.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
raises hand.... I dont!. I really do not think you can broadly state nearly everyone does it (i hope they dont anyway). the 3 people i usually play with, none of us do it. (i am not saying it isnt rife, just that sometimes you get an echo chamber if you play in a group with similar ideals... therefore from my perspective it maybe isnt as rife as you think, where as if your group do it all of the time, it may look like everyone does it.... <shrugs> i guess FD can probably tell.
The day FD fix this will be a happy day for me indeed... and i do think they are working on it, changes do seem to be happening with the mission board.
it is a bit soul destroying as the "other" group i sometimes play in do it all the time and i am well aware that because i dont, it means i am not at all effective in helping them with BGS stuff..... but the one session i DID do it, using the logic, "everyone does it therefore i need to to stay competetive" I lost the will to play so much i almost gave up playing at all..
verisimilitude and keeping the 4th wall intact when possible is the only reason i play (and if i had my way much of the "because game" logic which is in the game now would be gone!) , which is why i am "for" fixing any of the exploity / loopholey / gamey crap in the game, be it the likes of the OP, ramming to exploit the lame system security OR mode switchng to reset the bounty boards etc etc etc.
agree with me or not, in my defence i try to be consistent
btw just last night i would have appeared to CLog!
(I posted my apology this morning on the cqc board) though it would have been the most silly CLog as i was about to get a kill!. but my internet just booted me, had it of been in the main game i am sure i would have entered some of the "special" KOS lists, through no fault of my own.)
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+1 rep been asking for a public bounty hunting board for AGES.
OP I would have been asking for a ten second 'GET OFF THE PAD' warning anyones engines can get them out of the way in that time. On your original point that was griefing plain and simple I would report the player to FDEV as that was uncalled for and something that should not be allowed in ED.
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