PvP An Investigation Into Frontier's Actions on Combat Logging, Part 2

5 logs in 5 months. Really? I have that many disconnects from internet issues with this game...you really got to make this stuff more believable for FDEV to act.

How about 10 players with increasing levels of ridiculouness? 1 per month for 5 months. 6 times per month for 5 months. 20 times per month for 5 months.....etc. You might actually hit their threshold for banning folks....since you don't know what the threshold is..you can't claim to know if they are, or are not, doing anything.
Ok, but are all your disconnects coincidentally only during PvP?
Seriously, shouldn't there at least be a warning to this player that their disconnects, if intentional, are against the game rules?

And if their threshold is so high that 5 reported and confirmed combat-logs don't even garner a warning, then they might as well just say that combat logging is fine, and we don't care if players do it.

The lack of response from them is the worst part in all this.
 
Come on, folks, all the whataboutery regarding Engineering exploits is very counterproductive. We all know what happened and we all have our opinions. But using it to derail the legitimate concerns raised in this thread is petty at best, and at worst will give the impression that you're tacitly condoning the combat logging by using the well-worn armchair lawyer precedent of "two wrongs maketh a right".

The thing is, there is no technical solution to the problem of combat logging that doesn't involve a major rewrite of the code, and an investment in network infrastructure that might well require a monthly subscription to fund it. And while there are some players who would see this as a necessary sacrifice, it's by no means true of all players. So it's effectively off the table.

Which leaves monitoring, analytics and sanctions. Something FD claims to be doing, but which the OP's evidence would seem to suggest isn't happening. I say "seem" because, while I admire the dedication to data gathering, I'm not convinced that five incidents over as many months is a sufficiently high threshold to have hit FD's radar. There have been anecdotal messages on these very forums and on Reddit from people who claim to combat log far more regularly than once a month without any response from FD. Obviously the anonymity afforded by message boards leads to exaggeration and hyperbole so such anecdotes must be treated with caution, and are by their nature not as robust as the experiment described in the OP.

But the raw numbers still seem low to me, and if FD uses that as a get-out I would not be surprised. At some point around the fourth incident I would have upped the ante by taking the alt account to a CG and CLing several times in a single session, to underscore the idea that this is not another random disconnect caused by a flaky connection. But hey, I'm not the one who put the time in here so I'm hardly in a position to criticise. I just won't be shocked if FD responds by saying that one log a month is basically lost in the noise floor.

Either way it's disappointing that the only real solution available to FD is apparently being applied very gently, if at all. It's been said before but I think there's a valid argument for treating all "in danger" disconnects as CL, even if there's a chance it was a flaky connection. If players with genuinely iffy networking want to continue to risk a shadowban that's their choice, otherwise there are two other modes available if the flakiness can't be avoided.

Unfortunately it looks as though FD have gone to the other extreme and may only be tackling the most blatant examples.


[INDENT](Aside: one change I would make to the OP is where it refers to logging out via the 15 second menu timer as a form of Combat Logging. I understand how annoying it must be to Open/PVP players that this "legitimate" exit exists, but if its use is sanctioned by FD then it is not, by definition, Combat Logging of the sort FD are supposedly interested in punishing. It's an issue to be discussed for sure, but conflating the two here does SDC no favours. Personally I would grit my teeth and change that second reference to read Menu Logging. The timer fight is a fight for another day.)[/INDENT]
 
... and they wonder why Open is such a barren wasteland.

[video=youtube_share;5XcKBmdfpWs]https://youtu.be/5XcKBmdfpWs[/video]
5XcKBmdfpWs
 
So FDEV ignored some more faked reports of combat logging from SDC.

Well done FDEV.

They we're not fake, the account they used legitimately combat logged. Therefore it should be punished accordingly to Fdev original statement on cheaters. That was the whole point of the investigation.
 
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So glad I don't play this game anymore. They probably won't bother to give us an answer.

They don't give answers to lots of stuff, it is a shame but we are in this situation because they cannot be held to it if they don't say anything, and some members of the community are not good at taking no for an answer. So I see the lack of response from FDev as a result of many short-sighted 'open will burn if I don't get my way' stuff.

Shame you're not playing Sole Hunter, but I hope you'll stick around anyway, your posts are usually worth reading ;)
 
Fact is, take the number of combat loggers you think there is a multiply if by 50. SO MANY people CL in this game its untrue. FD dont have A: the resources to police it and B: wouldn't if they could because so many of the community are aggressively against non-consensual PVP they would annoy more people than they would appease.
 
You are aware what you just did, right ?
You claimed the benefit of the doubt, the very same benefit a good portion of PvPers are more than willing to throw overboard when it comes to combat loggers.
FD can't prove an intentional combat log, no matter the amount of "evidence" and documentation thrown at them....and yes, that is a sad situation for PvPers.
It's one of the shortcomings of the game, and i'm afraid one that PvPers have to live with, just as the rest of us live with other shortcomings.

And the only party that can say so for sure is Frontier. They did so for the 5-1 exploiters but they refuse to do anything about blatant taskkillers that have been doing so for years.
 
By far the funniest thing about this discussion is that people actually think a crime & punishment system would stop people from logging.

No C&P system required, although it can add to the existing proposal. This can be implemented very quickly, it doesn't rely on any other mechanism.
 

Goose4291

Banned
Fact is, take the number of combat loggers you think there is a multiply if by 50. SO MANY people CL in this game its untrue. FD dont have A: the resources to police it and B: wouldn't if they could because so many of the community are aggressively against non-consensual PVP they would annoy more people than they would appease.

When people started advocating CL-ing against NPCs that were merely scanning you, I think that's when I realised the problem was a lot worse than I originally thought.
 
And the only party that can say so for sure is Frontier. They did so for the 5-1 exploiters but they refuse to do anything about blatant taskkillers that have been doing so for years.

Now that's not true. They just haven't yet :)

When people started advocating CL-ing against NPCs that were merely scanning you, I think that's when I realised the problem was a lot worse than I originally thought.

I think when you care about this it's a sign you probably care too much ;)
 
They don't give answers to lots of stuff, it is a shame but we are in this situation because they cannot be held to it if they don't say anything, and some members of the community are not good at taking no for an answer. So I see the lack of response from FDev as a result of many short-sighted 'open will burn if I don't get my way' stuff.

Shame you're not playing Sole Hunter, but I hope you'll stick around anyway, your posts are usually worth reading ;)

unlike Rinzler and Ryan_m I don't have enough patience to deal with this kind of stuff. When it's clear the developers do not enjoy developing or interacting with a community to improve the latter then it's clear to me I shouldn't waste my time playing their game.
 
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Achilles7

Banned
Would the mods please move this thread out of DD just like all of the other slightly awkward threads - from Frontier's point of view - are moved?

In this case, the PvP forum (or 'graveyard forum' as it is affectionately known) would seem to be the best place to bury it! [big grin]
 
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