An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
That's just your rules though that you've made up.
Frontier as far as I'm aware allowed players to shoot other players without restriction. Is that true or false?
It's true so within the context of the content that FDEV have provided people can shoot who they please.
If Frontier want it otherwise then they've got to develop the game to handle it.
Greifer scum, question for you.
Whats the difference between a player in Solo constantly that you never engage with, and someone you engage with briefly only for them to Log and go back to solo? Surely by your logic these are both "cheating" you out of a kill.
Genuine question.
This is a genuine answer from the perspective of a hypothetical developer of this game:
- logging during combat is not something i want players to do
- if they are forced to do it I want to know about it
- if I do not allow logging in combat they surely tell me about it and I can fix my game
In most cases I prefer 'crash early and often' over 'muddle through and hope for the best'. Combat logging is one of those cases.
In other words: I do not think that greifing, griefing, pvp, pve, or <name it>, is relevant for the core of the issue.
Whats the difference between a player in Solo constantly that you never engage with, and someone you engage with briefly only for them to Log and go back to solo? Surely by your logic these are both "cheating" you out of a kill.
Genuine question.
This is a genuine answer from the perspective of a hypothetical developer of this game:
- logging during combat is not something i want players to do
- if they are forced to do it I want to know about it
- if I do not allow logging in combat they surely tell me about it and I can fix my game
In most cases I prefer 'crash early and often' over 'muddle through and hope for the best'. Combat logging is one of those cases.
In other words: I do not think that greifing, griefing, pvp, pve, or <name it>, is relevant for the core of the issue.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
that is solid logic... but the argument could also be used for CLing... ie if FD want to stop it they have to close the loopholes which allow players to do it.
the problem is, it seems to be hard to do, and to get right, just like a working crime and punishment seems to be hard to do to get right.
Players have shown they will go to almost any lengths and use any exploit to get an advantage over another... hell even members of SDC have combat logged themselves in the past. perhaps they have banned all their members who did this... but, i somehow doubt it,
FD said players can choose to play in different open modes with different rules......... [nope never happened]
FD said players who solely attack other players to blow them up would be instanced in their own special "hell mode" [nope never happened]
FD said crime and punishment would be tweaked to find a balance and to dissuade a certain type of PvP [nope never happened]
FD said if you did not want to be instanced with a player, you could add them to a block list and not see them again [nope never happened]
So..... when FD say CLing is an exploit and players doing it will be punished............ why should this be accepted as any different to the above statements of intent from FD? esp when players have been openly exploiting the game in other ways for the last 2 years and its an accepted norm..
i wonder how many of the players arguing its only credits..... are saying this due to exploiting the 100mil per hr srv exploiting missions, or who hauled sh*** for hrs on end when that paid insanely? if they did no wonder money is no issue to them.
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1) I'm not asking the developer, I'm asking the roleplayer
2) The reason for someone to Log is absolutely relevant to the issue.
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Whenever there's some problem, issue/bug with the game, issue with the developer you get a certain set of people attempting to either make it out that it isn't an issue, everything is great, the people with issues are wrong.
They quite often end up looking at bit daft when Frontier holds their hands up and admit that there is an issue/bug and they'll look into it.
In this instance, Kerresh was attempting to close the barn door not just after the horse has bolted but it's run 6 miles away and lost a shoe.
FD have admitted they are wrong so attempts to make out there isn't an issue anymore is a bit off especially coming from a Mod.
Is it my rules that I just made up though? That gave me pause for thought - then I realised that by specifically not marketing the game as a gankfest, the marketing as worded implies that any phrasing or wording within that marketing is intended within the context of the game world as intended by the game authors.
It is only true because FDEV have done nothing to address indiscriminate player killing, but at the same time have created and marketed a game world with 4 specific careers of Trader, Bounty Hunter, Explorer, Pirate. I repeat - in none of their marketing have they specifically mentioned "Indiscriminate Psycho Killer" as an in-game career.
And if they don't develop the game to handle it, then I suggest that FDEV tell everyone exactly if they want to have indiscriminate player killing in the game. They should tell everyone now that they want Psychopath to be an in game career. And they should tell everyone to just not bother with all the other content they have created because now the game is nothing more than a 400 Billion Star System CQC Arena arcade shoot-em-up.
Oh but I'll trot this video out again just in case you missed this...
[video=youtube;n7tGV7VVlhE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7tGV7VVlhE[/video]
Yes, they do have to enforce their own rules regards CLing. We've been told since Jan 2014 that they were enforcing that rule (first time I remember MB saying so). That FD were caught not doing that it the whole reason for this thread is it not?
p.s. I also think the issue with Crime and punishment is the same issue I have with a lot of the game, it's just underdeveloped. It's not hard to get right it's hard to get FD to knuckle down and improve it when they're too busy adding shinies to ED and making coaster games.
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Can't really speak for SDC or any of the people who do that, but I imagine it is similar in nature to playing a horror game.
Many ask, "Why would you play a game just to scare yourself?" Well, in the back of my mind, I know I'm not in any danger when I play a horror game.
For the for the unfair, I guess, PKer it's similar. They are asserting dominance and control over another player, but knowing full well that they are not causing any lasting damage.
There is a sort of high one can get from that, just like there is a sort of high one can get from scaring themselves with a horror game.
It's why I was never really critical of the behavior and playstyle. I never really spoke out against SDC behavior, or held anything against them prior to this post.
thanks for responding cmdr
o7 yeah the only issue here was that "internal" processes were not followed properly ... we have since had assurances that this had happened and that it "wont" happen againIf you want to find out what motivates the guys from SDC I suggest you get in touch with them. I'm sure theyll be happy to explain their motivation and perhaps their grievances on their discord channel. Take care though, they will likely eat you for breakfast if you give them the opportunity [haha]
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I gave you rep for that because I absolutely agree with you on that point.
This idea shines above most....!
Brilliantly stated.
thanks for responding cmdr
Which is great, hopefully they will and the thought someone might check up on them will keep them on their toes.
We should be thanking the people for taking the time and effort to investigate an issue and bring it to FD's attention, it's far far far more effort than I could even be bothered doing, we shouldn't be trying to undermine them because it doesn't fit the narrative that everything it awesome.
Completely agree.
The last point about Planet Coaster I find interesting too, and led me to grab these - the credits for both games:
Elite Dangerous:
Planet Coaster:
While there is some sharing of devs (audio, networking) the predominant overlap is of "backend" staff like admin, support, servers, QA, etc.
However, what is very obvious for both games is that the actual programming teams are relatively small, and they code the gameplay mechanics. Hopefully the revenue brought from PC's release will allow the hiring of more coding devs to suppliment the existing superb team.
Keep your life simple. Do not open up ways for reasoning.
Imagine that, namely that people have accused them of slowing down elite development due to planet coaster, yet that is not the case? how about that, and yeah the overlap is obvious, because team leads aren't often those doing the actual programming, they direct and lead, are responsible for quality and whatnot, and sure that could probably affect 'some' things but I doubt it, fact is, Frontier is a small studio still, compared to many triple A studio's, yet quality is...at least in my eyes, significantly better.
You're not incorrect about consensual scaring of ones self. Bit like watching a horror film. Horror bounces off me like water off a duck. However, my girlfriend is greatly disturbed by anything horror. No kidding, the house lights were on for almost a week after watching some supernatural stuff.. Each person handles stuff their own way.
I can no more force my girlfriend to watch the stuff I do. Not even one bit, there's no conversation, there's no compromise. She WILL NOT watch anything horror at all, period.
The compromise is on my side.
I personally cannot stick chick-flicks... she loves them. Can I watch them without having to turn the light on for a week.. aye I can. Sometimes one just has to go with a compromise.
I guess ED is similar. People only combat log to get away from a situation they choose to actively avoid. Bit like my GF immediately running out the room if she comes in to see me watching someone get ripped in half by a raging monster... I have empathy and do not try to force her to stay
(i know i'm such a softie). Forcing PvErs to get clubbed for the sake of satisfying the amusement of the one with the bat; really, is not the way forward. Even implementing a C&P system, a bribe system will not work. I offer my GF a cookie if she sits through a full Saw movie? yeah right, doubt she'd do it for £20,000. PvE needs a PvE mode. Not solo, not player managed groups. This fragments the PvE community. PvE needs its own mode. It's the only true way to take folks wanting to play in an open environment (watch a film) but one that satisfies their own play style (genre of movie).Folks still hate this idea as it literally gives 'easy prey' a way to play in safety, and quite rightly to. Surely it's the players choice to choose a mode that satisfies their game choice. Ones happy to role play helpless seal, can still do so.
It really is the perfect middle-ground, without dictatorship barking how someone else is allowed to play or not.
The whole toxic episode against combat loggers, is a symptom of combat loggers avoiding game interaction they simply do not subscribe to against the backdrop of little to no GROUP PvE options. The latter solves both.