but consequence isn't a form of punishment.
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
but consequence isn't a form of punishment.
Goose4291
Banned
Consequence free gaming is fine. But wasn't Eintended to be a simulator/arcade hybrid? Sims without consequences sound pretty dull.
Signed,
CMDR Sun "Critical Thinking Is My Thing" Dae
Particularly when those championing consequence free gaming when it comes to combat logging/loss of profits etc. are usually those who bang the drum about 'immersion'.
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The issue for a long time has been asymmetric risk/reward and lack of balance through a sensible crime/punishment system that would help introduce some balance.
Some use that as justification to CL with a "2 wrongs make 1 right" mentality.
More rational players think that situation is more appropriately resolved by just moving to a large PG.
FD has had eons to do anything sensible but instead just continues the Ostrich approach trying to make public statements designed to convince players that something is really being done, when in fact there's zero evidence of that actually happening. Instead they hide behind some privacy mythology that totally undermines their credibility.
Why would anyone fear using CL when there's no evidence that there will be any consequences.
Ironically, many posters are defending FD say that no one has proven that FD hasn't ever taken action, when the reality is that it is FD that has never demonstrated that they have taken any remedial actions an has led players to conclude that there are no consequences for CLing.
Why would FD or anyone conclude that empty threats would deter unwanted behavior? Irrational.
If they really wanted to control this problem, you'd at least expect them to publish some numbers of actions taken for offenses committed and allow those affected who so choose to go public with what they did and confess their indiscretions voluntarily.
Due to any lack of evidence, it's only fair to assume that nothing is being done along these lines.
Having been here for over 2 years, I do remember one well known incident that resulted in a temporary Shadow Ban and did have an affect on the player base. That is the one and only incident that players were aware of to the best of my recollection.
You slow down on the express way when you see someone else getting a ticket.
It's just the way we roll
Good on you to state the obvious...?
Well sure it's easy to say that and write it off, but if the consequence to one side vs the consequence to the other are so imbalanced, then there's certainly an argument for reducing the consequences.
I don't recall hearing players who want to be able to go on consequence-free killing sprees talking about immersion.
Or you know, actually observe the circumstance and the vision of a game that boasts a "cutthroat" universe then concludes that we need to elevate punishment for actions that are likely to cause combat logging .-.
If it's obvious then why are you missing the point?
He's trying to say players who want an easy in game life and minimal consequence are the same as those don't want punishment for a menial loophole that only effects the lowest of the low CMDRs.
Those killing sprees are not consequence free, thank you very much. I have to go home every night, pull my FDL into my starport, and face my Space-Wife knowing that I have blood on my hands and a hardened heart. If you think that is easy, perhaps you should take a frame-shift jump in MY shoes.
Signed,
CMDR Sun "You are my content" Dae
Consequence free gaming is fine. But wasn't E
Nowadays I mainly look for duels but when I was more of RP-PvP-er, every time I killed someone it was because I wanted to cause them, their group, or their cause, to suffer loss (however notional).
But I'm increasingly of the view that the majority of players of this game have neither any group, nor indeed any cause.
They rightly or wrongly perceive themselves as affecting nothing, hence don't believe that anything should affect them either.
Yep.
Half these people want a game with no consequences at all. They want bumper cars. They want bumper bowling. Nothing truly hurts, no mistakes are costly; things only annoy just a little bit. Everyone wins, nobody really loses.
They don't want Elite to be Dangerous. The opinions of these people need to be disregarded by FDev at all turns and at all costs.
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Sure that's what a bunch of us have been suggesting for pages while most of the thread has been focused on the combat logging aspect. Both options are worth talking about, and reducing consequences is not the same as consequence free.
You are exactly correct. Player groups and player interaction is what drives buy-in and investment in both the game and the community. Without both of those things, this game has no direction and no raison d'etre.
Goose4291
Banned
My phone deleted half my sentence as I was typing it in.
What I meant was that some elements of the Immersion brigade (which, I'm part of due to my sim heavy gaming choices) like Immersion right up until it hits them square in the chops and things don't go their way.
Hence the number of people who talk about not wanting to lose credits/exploration data when they die, but are happy with real time delivery for ordering your ship.
verminstar
Banned
Then you've got those like me that think it should be 100% and you basically fly your pod back to a station and replace the ship entirely.. like in any other game.
We already have that as a choice...merely reset yer account
You'll be starting a guild thread next.
Well they are independent. And as someone said earlier being killed by a player has no "context".
It's not like you're doing a mission and you've been warned an NPC will be after you, and that NPC interdicts you.
It's literally some player you've never met before killing you because they're in a vastly superior ship or they outnumber you in their wing, that literally is the context most of the time. Nothing more than that. There is no "meaning" to it.
edit: I'd also say, since it's just been mentioned above, the above standard scenario is not "immersion".
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Oh god, this reminds me why I miss this forum so much .-.
It brings me amusement.
Okay then, let's break this down.
The initial comment:
What's being compared here are the consequences of partaking in some activity. Namely, that wanting to avoid dangerous situations with combat logging.
Then you come along and assign values and hierarchy to situations, namely what you assume to be the difference between player-caused situations and non-player caused situations.
Then you make the distinction of players avoiding non-player caused situations being somehow different than players avoiding player-caused situations.
Following that, you indiscriminately label all player-caused situations and their instigators as the "lowest of the low CMDRs" which qualifies all combat logging scenarios regardless of context and their instigators, which mind you, include legitimate piracy and bounty hunting.
So let me ask you this, is this obvious enough for you now or you are still missing the point?
Don't play the logic game with me unless you are serious about it, it doesn't end well.