An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
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The sole purpose of their existence is getting a rise out of people, either in game, or even better, the forums.
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Sole Hunter
Banned
at least someone here understand.
Munchkin too. As does "Truco", a very popular game here that uses common playing cards (imagine a simpler version of Poker where if you are caught cheating, or if you accuse someone of cheating but he isn't, you lose the hand, while undetected cheating is just fine).Illuminati specifically *authorizes* cheating.
And a new conundrum: if a game explicitly authorizes cheating, is "cheating" in it still cheating? After all, it's in the rules
Except that:
A. you proved nothing, for anyone who bothered reading between the lines
B. Combat logging is not "cheating", it's an "exploit".
Let's consider an imaginary game of dodgeball.
A "cheat" would be a dodgeball that magically tracks its target like a bludger from a game of Quidditch. (If you don't know what those terms are and have never heard of Harry Potter before, lord help you.)
An "exploit" would be stepping out of bounds (presumably somehow without your opponent noticing) to get out of the way of an incoming ball.
Part of the issue here is that you lot are chucking dodgeballs at people on the sidelines & claiming they were engaged in the game from the very start, then complaining they're breaking the rules by running out-of-bounds.
Part of the issue is that others like you lot are then going out-of-bounds when some people catch and chuck dodgeballs right back at them.
Main point is, combat logging is not an outright "cheat".
It's an easy fix — in a game that uses a client/server network architecture. Which ED does not.
While I agree with most of your reasoning, I believe stepping out of bounds in a dodgeball game would be cheating, not exploiting. For the most part, the simpler the game is the harder it is for exploits to exist, which makes exploits in common sports and simple board games very rare, potentially inexistent.
An exploit is something either authorized by the rules or that results from the common behavior of the game or console, and which allows the player to sidestep part of the game. For example, in Skyrim (all versions, for PC and all consoles), if you save in front of a merchant, attack it, and load the game, the merchant's inventory and gold will be reset without having to wait for two days; that is an exploit.
Combat logging is an exploit; by abusing how the game deals with disconnections you can bypass the logout wait. Just like switching modes to get more missions is an exploit (you bypass the far longer timer before missions change), and most of the currently existing quick ways of making cash in game are exploits.
More to the point, they're throwing the dodge balls at people who are playing an entirely different game. It's as if ED were filled with different playgrounds and in one, you have people running a marathon (trade CG) and suddenly these guys come in throwing dodge balls at the runners and they complain indignantly that the runners aren't willing to play with them.
Even more to the point, it isn't outright cheating because there is no official score keeping. Each "kill" adds nothing tangible in terms of in game accomplishments. It doesn't go on a ranking ladder. It doesn't complete he terms of a mission. It doesn't get remunerated in credits. It's a disruption that is not related to the in game universe in any tangible storyline way. Arguably, that they can come in for no other reason than to disturb others using in game mechanics is the real exploit and frankly that's on fd for not dealing with it.
Unfortunately, it seems they are confused as to what kind of a game they are making and for whom. This has led to serious imbalances as mechanics that might be reasonable in a single player game (engineers) completely throw any sense of balance and "fairness" out in the pvp elements of the game.
Meanwhile they are doubling down on decidedly bad decisions by making engineers even more necessary to the combat aspects on the game and the introductions of weapons effects that make it much harder to evade that style of play. The majority are pve players. A minority is like me, that enjoys both and the other minority is only interested in blowing up other players ships. FDs changes seem to largely cater to them. The Grom missiles alone will blow the whole CLing business sky high. Permadeath on NPC hires has tempted me for the first time to consider the CL as a viable option. Engineers has shut down anyone not dedicated to the grind from any pvp in the "wild". These changes are horrific. They make the majority of players into second class citizen to the grind and gank brigade. So yeah, this is FD stuffing up big time when it comes down to the core of all these issues. CLing will only get worse until fd decide what kind of a game it is they want to make and people can complain about CLing as much as they like and everyone else can complain about gankers as much as they like but this is the environment FD has created and no one else.
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Let the witch hunt begin ...
Recall the statement I am discussing "Multiplayer cheating, if nothing is done about it, ruins that game, every time."FD have stated that combat logging is cheating.. they are also aware that people change their hud colour and are ok with that afaik.. it's their game, players are expected to abide by their rules
If we define "cheating" as "anything the dev says is cheating" (which is what you are implying there); then we find that Blizzard could say "carrying weapons in Diablo is cheating" and suddenly Diablo would be ruined (retroactively I assume) by all the weapons we were carrying. Since that's obviously not the case: your definition would disprove his claim.
I needed him to define cheating so we could evaluate whether cheating always ruins the game.
I wasn't actually arguing that combat logging was not cheating (at least not in this case); rather, I was disputing his underlying claim that cheating (by any reasonable definition that did include Combat Logging) always equals "ruined game".
Removing it wouldn't cost money. Making an expensive 100% insurance that you can buy would add another goal to ship building.
As for the rest? Telling people to find a new game because they play a game differently than you is just asinine and actually offers nothing toward problem resolution.
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Braben has described combat logging as against the rules. What is another word for breaking/going against the rules? C H _ A T I N _.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...m_anything_david_braben_obe_fdev_ceo/d96tzev/
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Wow. Just wow. I NEVER would have predicted the level of apologia and borderline endorsement of Combat Logging that's going on here. I had no idea of the degree to which so much of this community has been silently in favor of the practice and quite happy that nothing has been done about it. SDC has overturned a large stone to reveal the ugliness underneath and frankly I'm astonished.
Yea, ED has one of the most ridiculous player bases in gaming history.
It might help if players didn't lose upwards of ten hour of progress per death.
No. Because in combat, it gives no advantage to you nor does it put an opponent at disadvantage.
No. Because in combat, it gives no advantage to you nor does it put an opponent at disadvantage.
We're discussing an exploit/cheat that has a material impact on gameplay. You're discussing HUD colors and paintjobs, things that do not impact degrade gameplay for an opponent.
So you're either being purposely obtuse, or are completely unfamiliar with Elite. Which is it?
Been around many a gaming forum. The ED player base is the worst I have seen, by far. No other gaming community I have been a part of has been so childish, narrow minded, and petty.
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To me, cheating is cheating. End of story. PvE or PvP, people know what they're risking when they get in a ship. They accept that risk when they undock. Combat logging is cheating, there is no arguing that. FD has said so. The fact that people openly defend it is mind boggling.
Sole Hunter
Banned
if you can't get the joke you never will lol.
I know right, it's astonishing. At least now, we know who support combat loggers.
Funny story: they are the first one to turn to frontier when they want to dispute an argument from us but when we talk about combat logging...it will somehow not constitute as ''cheating'' for ''them'' even when ''frontier'' themselves have defined it as cheating.
The irony is funny.
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Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Give us a chance - it's only tuesday!