An open email to FDEV from a hardened PVP Veteran...

[Salami]

The problem with the cruise lock..is that it makes it even easier for the griefers to kill someone. So, yeah, large amount of negative feedback expected there!

Hmmyes, though, the way they play, they do not need such system, do they...
But true, any system can be used goos as well as bad.
In the end, EVERYTHING is a weapon, if you chose it so...

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

With all due respect, aren't they JUST AS RUDE?
…

"Kill them all and let god sort them out!" ("Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt emus.")

 

[Salami]

Jesus said otherwise (something about turning cheeks), and last I checked, Catholics were Christian.

I said I am CATHOLIC, not Christian.
And no, believing in God does not mean in Jesus.

"Kill them all and let god sort them out!" ("Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt emus.")

AMEN!

As a good satanic Christian, i believe in the golden rule: "Do three times upon them, what they wrought upon you."
I live by this, both IRL as online.

 

[Faded Glory]

I have just been through every post in this 16 page thread and have yet to see an actual answer to the question posed very early on

Why dont pro-pvp groups just fight each other in open??

Not a single coherant answer - if they want pvp surely its the perfect solution
Or perhaps will a wing of 4 corvettes vs another wing of 4 corvettes gets too expensive very quickly?
But think of the rush - the buzz - the visceral excitement
Personally I think they dont want a fair fight, a balanced fight, equal odds - they want to see a weaker less geared opponent go pop and high five their wingmates

So go on - leet PVP endgamers - Why arent you challenging other leet PVP endgamers to a war???

I am really looking forward to your balanced reply

Don't hold your breath... That question has been asked many times, that solution to their problem has been suggested many times. It's occasionally brushed aside, but never answered or accepted as a solution.

 

[Siobhan]

I said I am CATHOLIC, not Christian.
And no, believing in God does not mean in Jesus.
AMEN!

As a good satanic Christian, i believe in the golden rule: "Do three times upon them, what they wrought upon you."
I live by this, both IRL as online.

Well, as another popular religion says: An' it harm none, do as thou wilt.

 

[Salami]

Well, as another popular religion says: An' it harm none, do as thou wilt.

Sadly many cause harm.
And those are the folks that cross my path.
I pity them, really...
Poor chaps.

 

[Privata]

With all due respect, aren't they JUST AS RUDE?
Why would it be wrong to give them the same pleasure?
The satanist in me says: an eye for a tooth, your skull for an aye.
Which, btw, is NOT satanic, it's even Catholic (the old laws).

If you are talking about the real greifers those who insult other users and use in real life context to hunt they should be report I belive.
I dont know about the rules of in game trash talk (some games like UT4 encourage player toasting but you can turn off the display of it) I dont ever insult any one and the only times I have attacked another player outside of a war was because he pleged to hudson.

My best friend is a greifer but he does not see it as wrong , he feels that as long as he does not insult other users and he is not exploiting a game bug thats its fair game.

I dont know its a complex subject and I think it would be wise if FD explain there opinion on the matter and maybe if needed expand on the rules (I do think the bounties need to be higher because then it makes players like me have a purpose because whats the point of bounty hunting real killers (virtualy) when NPCs are worth more? I dont care about the creds but that because I am rich lol.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Don't hold your breath... That question has been asked many times, that solution to their problem has been suggested many times. It's occasionally brushed aside, but never answered or accepted as a solution.

Because for majority PvPers PvP *is* about owning a space, about fake achievement over some real person. Some of them even openly says so. Why do you think grinding is important, creds/hour, etc? Because of ownage. It's sad state of affairs but that's how humans are at this age.

However, FD needs go and make PvP and piracy meangingful anyway, for sake of principle, because then more reasonable crowd and some PvPers willing to change have a chance. There's no point of taking part in turf war going on in this thread or elsewhere. It is about tribalism, owning someone because he has bigger ship.

 

[Salami]

As I see things: there are only 2 species in the entire universe/multiverse (whatever you believe in): Those that I like, and those that better move to the next galaxy, just to be safe.
I do not care for religion preference, I do not care for sexual preference, gender, skin colour,...
Just don't cross me or my principles, and we'll get along perfectly.
Live and let di... erm, live.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I play in open, but I see problems here. I play in open for the interaction with other players. Not necessarily to fight them. Obviously I will defend myself. But if you play the game just to fly around and fight other players, I don't think this is the right game for that. There is a galaxy which we all share and just starting fights with people with zero roleplay to it isn't good. Most of us want to feel immersed in the game and PvP for no reason really doesn't work with that. If you were a pirate for instance, that would be a different matter. I don't do PvP even though I play in open unless it's a part of my story in defending my home system. I have a reason to do that.

If there are good gameplay reasons for PvP, then fine, but PvP just because you can isn't for me and I suspect a lot of others as well.

 

[Jypson]

Don't think you read the posts properly mate. I am not advocating a PVE mode, nor am I dismissing it. I agree that you can play whatever mode you want, however you are failing to take into account the groups ofplayers that don't want to PvP, but DO want to encounter other people. They may not have a readymade group of mates to play with (the folk I know are largely FIFA/CoD players and to them I am the ubernerd of the group), there are quite a few people like this as can be seen from the forum posts of those looking for folk to play with without putting themselves at risk of being ganked. Not PvP'd, ganked.

I spout piracy as the perfect example since there is abolutely NO difference whatsoever in whether the pirate is player or NPC, it's gonna happen, someone WILL try and steal your cargo. The difference arises when a PLAYER makes a conscious decision to kill the target. A good pirate allows his target to live so that he may be robbed again...and again. Currently even NPC pirates seem to have given up and shoot first, scan later.

I'm not forcing anybody to play a certain mode, so why you are quoting me for this nonsensical statement is beyond even my capacity. I am merely offering suggestions as to how we could keep people playing together that want to play together. Solo is great and all, but it's damned lonely and frankly, the only action that defines players from NPC's is needless, unsanctioned murder. All other actions such as piracy, smuggling, trading, mining, bounty hunting are all devoid of the need to kill someone and part of the game...even in solo. NPC's will attempt those actions, as will players.

Again I state "the issue has not been caused by PvP'ers, it has been created by those who choose to grief others."

If you are complaining about the ability of players to steal your cargo solo is not the answer since NPC's are going to do it to you in solo as well. I suspect it's more a case of you not wanting *players* to be able to steal your cargo. Otherwise it simply boils down to not wanting to get killed. So why bother playing at all?

The only exception to this is powerplay which effectively allows you to engage in PvP outside of the game's selected career paths with hostile ships from another faction. Killing another player not involved in PP is.....yup, griefing. When players are following in-game careers like bounty hunting and piracy correctly there is no difference between a player ship and npc ship. If you have a bounty and are scared of being hunted, or cargo you don't want to lose the solution is to log out and play something else because those are *part of the game* and differentiating between players and NPC's at this juncture is irrelevant.

The only reason people aren't crying about NPC's performing all the same hunting/robbery actions is because they are, quite laughably, pathetic. I know for a fact that there's nothing in this game controlled by an NPC that's going to be able to take the cargo from my python. As mad as it sounds I welcome player pirates to come and try to take it, if nothing but for the adrenaline rush. The problem is that I know, along with many other players, that those three condas aren't here to take my cargo.....

lol, I think we must be both misunderstanding each other or something. I read

Normally I would be on board with the open-pve suggestion, however this would only serve to divide the playerbase even further than it already is and with a galaxy this large that's not something we really want to do at this stage.

and took it to mean that you are against 'Open-PvE' because it would further divide the playerbase. My response was meant to convey that I think more options the better as forcing people to play a certain way could cause people to just stop playing all together and end up dividing the playerbase anywho.

The rest of it I have no opinion on as I only play solo because I have no interest in multiplayer games. Peace be with you CMDR, we have no quarrel

 

[mossfoot]

Suggestion:

For those PvPers actually interested in PvP (let's not include seal clubbers in this definition please)

The solution doesn't have to be creating your own version of Mobius, or forcing the Devs to something about something. It doesn't have to be about getting highly organized, either.

Maybe what you need is to plot out a micro-bubble.

Comb though the galaxy map, find a region of space 50LY in diameter that includes everything you could possibly need for a normal game: an even mix of Fed and Empire planets, all economy types, most government types, and most importantly, an easily recognized "center" with an easy to remember name. Buy a Sidewinder there to act as a marker on the galaxy map. Spread the word to PvPers about this place, and encourage them to focus their attention there. This would also warn PvEers who want to stay in open that that's an area to be approached with caution.

With the right mix of planets you could do anything you want anywhere else in space, trade, bounty hunt, shift minor factions around. But the more PvPers you have there, the more chance you have for natural organic PvP occurring.

Just a thought.

 

[Lily from anim.o.v.e]

In my opinion, your never going to get the vast majority in open for PVP. Not everyone likes PVP and the reality is, if you loose, you can loose a lot. Like your ship, your cargo. This happens a few too many times and your back at the beginning of the game. Unlike other MMO's that have PVP servers, if you die 30 times you simply pay a small about of gold and move on. It's not the same in Elite regardless if the person PVP'ing suffers penalties or not. The other commander at the end of that cannon stands too loose a lot more than 200gold.

You can post as many "please come back and be my target dummy" all you want, it won't change the mind of people who only enjoy PVE.

And in RL there is maybe 1 killer amongst 1000 peopel or less, + once that killr is busted or shot he can not respawn which grants peace for the others. But this is totally off in elite by relation.
It is quite a nonsense comparison by the PvP'ers brining RL in.

 

[Salami]

To a different point: ED: If even the makes of ED are undesicive as to how ED was meant to become, either PvE or PvP, then how can we know.
The absolute lack of any form of punishment for griefers would indicate that the game was more meant to be/become a more PvP oriented place.
Why else would there be such lack of punishment?
I know, the game is far from complete, but still.
If I were (and I am aware ED ain't me) and i would not have either griefing or PvP in my game, I would simply, first of all, not implement this option, and if implemented, see to it that this was taken care of by either NPC police showing up and SWARMING the griefer/PvP'er.
The fact nothing has/is done about this would imply they want this factor in here, I'd think.
As i stated before, there is absolutely not a single shred of danger in ED, folks make billions upon billions in virtually no time (which baffles me, seeing this game is a 10 year long work in progress).

Perhaps they allow this just to have a money sink.

Point is, it's here, so we'll have to deal with this.
Especially since ED isn't doing anything about this.

 

[StuF]

It is about tribalism, owning someone because he has bigger ship.

Exactly why many many peeps have escaped Open - I agree with your analysis
And it is exactly why there has been no response from the PVP "End Gamers" - they dont want exciting challenging player vs player combat
They want one side lol's so they can feel superior and manly

I actually pity them

 

[Salami]

Suggestion:

For those PvPers actually interested in PvP (let's not include seal clubbers in this definition please)

The solution doesn't have to be creating your own version of Mobius, or forcing the Devs to something about something. It doesn't have to be about getting highly organized, either.

Maybe what you need is to plot out a micro-bubble.

Comb though the galaxy map, find a region of space 50LY in diameter that includes everything you could possibly need for a normal game: an even mix of Fed and Empire planets, all economy types, most government types, and most importantly, an easily recognized "center" with an easy to remember name. Buy a Sidewinder there to act as a marker on the galaxy map. Spread the word to PvPers about this place, and encourage them to focus their attention there. This would also warn PvEers who want to stay in open that that's an area to be approached with caution.

With the right mix of planets you could do anything you want anywhere else in space, trade, bounty hunt, shift minor factions around. But the more PvPers you have there, the more chance you have for natural organic PvP occurring.

Just a thought.

Why should they be moving?
It's open play, which translates in: do what the hell ever you want.
And I, though anti-PvP, can do nothing but agree to this.
It's general freedom, right?

 

[NecoMachina]

When we finally do engage in PVP, we are often labeled as "griefers" and shunned by a large majority of players simply because they are either incapable of giving us a decent challenge, are either too afraid to engage us, or are unwilling to take up a banner to organize against us.

I have not come across your group, so I don't know your style of PVP. I have come across one of the other PVP groups you mentioned. They had about 10 of them in Corvettes, Gunships, Anacondas, and the like sitting outside Obsidian Orbital picking off unarmed explorers one by one. Their "excuse" is they were protecting the barnacles from us evil explorers. There was no talk of "turn back or die", they just all 10 fired on anything that moved that wasn't them. To me, and many others, this is not PVP this is blatant griefing. Heck, even if we tried to fight back and jumped in a full combat wing that would be 10 vs 4. And before anyone says, "well bring 3 wings then", we all know that instancing issues make it problematic to make sure all 3 wings got in the same instance at the same time. For anyone who doesn't feel this is griefing, I jumped into the live-stream of one of them and their group was talking on voice chat. They were discussing how many rebuys they could afford if one of them happened to die, and a quote from one of them "I have 2 billion credits worth of griefing I can do here."

Things like this cause most people to either play in solo or private group, or to run when we see other players we suspect might be trying to PVP. Now, please understand, I don't know you and am not accusing your group of griefing, but some of your "friends" are. You want to promote a "healthy" PVP environment? To do that we need to stop the rampant griefing. We need to have the pirates ask for cargo instead of killing unarmed traders instantly. We need to make PVP interesting and fun for both sides. Honestly though I don't see this happening because in every online game you always have "those guys".

 

[Cula-Ta]

Seriously?
We play in group to be social, which is why Mobius has so many members.
We don't play in open to avoid psychos

 

[CMDR Thon Mystra]

lol, I think we must be both misunderstanding each other or something. I read and took it to mean that you are against 'Open-PvE' because it would further divide the playerbase. My response was meant to convey that I think more options the better as forcing people to play a certain way could cause people to just stop playing all together and end up dividing the playerbase anywho.

The rest of it I have no opinion on as I only play solo because I have no interest in multiplayer games. Peace be with you CMDR, we have no quarrel

Ahh, yeah. I see what you mean

I think open-pve to be probably the best solution currently (short of my suggestion of tools to police griefers) as it would probably require less resources to implement; more options means more happy peeps which means a longer shelf-life for the game.

As I said before, RoA, SDC, CODE and the like have made this situation themselves, and whilst I am finding it difficult to supress the urge to wet myself with laughter at the irony of the situation they are now complaining about, I would much rather not take away their 'right' to gank at will; as technically I *would* be forcing them to play a different way.

But I do think that they should be thinking long and very, very hard about doing it in the first place. "Gank if you want, but yo gonna get yo       kicked by the community" kind of thing.....

 

[EddyRockSteady]

Why should they be moving?
It's open play, which translates in: do what the hell ever you want.
And I, though anti-PvP, can do nothing but agree to this.
It's general freedom, right?

Well, they must do something cause they're moaning about the current state of affairs.

Sitting back and doing nothing won't help. Doing whatever the he'll you want is just......not.......working.......out.....for the PvP exclusive club it would seem.