An open email to FDEV from a hardened PVP Veteran...

[Faded Glory]

BTW: I am anti-PvP.
Which does absolutely NOT mean I run from it, nor that I do not get PvP'ers.
I am entirely unbiassed in the matter.
But even PvP'ers should have their thing, in the end.
If only because the OPTION for this is there.

Just for the heck of it, imma make a poll for a policing group. XD

So, you're anti PvP, PvPers should be able to play the game how they want (which includes killing for no reason), but you quite fancy being a PvP vigilante...

 

[Shinhwa]

ED isn't a PVP game. Once I came to that realization, I finally started to enjoy ED. Would rather it was, but it isn't. Frontier should just add a PVP Flag to Open and be done with it.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

You must be one hell of a pilot then. Just remember, there are plenty of players who find the game a challenge and for them there are many dangers in the game.

Roger *that*.

Duly +1'd

 

[StuF]

ED isn't a PVP game. Once I came to that realization, I finally started to enjoy ED. Would rather it was, but it isn't. Frontier should just add a PVP Flag to Open and be done with it.

Cant see why this wouldnt work - especially if it only worked in "safe" space and wasnt effective in Anarchy systems
Would permit consentual pvp and prevent ganking - if a CMDR decides to travel into Anarchy space there is a risk!

 

[Salami]

So, you're anti PvP, PvPers should be able to play the game how they want (which includes killing for no reason), but you quite fancy being a PvP vigilante...

Well, that's what happens When PvE just doesn't become challenging.
Aside, even as a kid, now millions of years ago, i was extremely pro-weak, and always had fights with bullies and the likes.
How many I hospitalized...
I just HATE injustice.
So why not do the same here?

 

[the100thmonkey]

(much like CQC) open is slowly dying

Open isn't dying. Arguably, PvP-focused players are realising that the game isn't designed around large scale PvP. I play in open always, but haven't logged into the game in about three weeks. Not because of the PvP, though. I've just been too busy.

 

[Deathwatch]

The Reason why ToC is currently wasting Brestla is because we are technically the enemies of them, Also they invited us to PvP their and be the bad guys, they said they were going to hire people to fight us, so they hired SDC whom are by far worse than ToC.

Obviously TIIQ then went and hid in their PG to avoid any conflict with ToC while the Open Traders got killed as they weren't their protecting their CG, though they got killed today because TIIQ let some ToC in their PG by accident...

 

[HeavyGroovez]

To the the creators of Elite,
I started the Elite: Dangerous PVP Subreddit in hopes that PVP would get some more love within the Elite universe. I've spent many long hours leading squadrons(yes, squadrons, not just wings) into PVP this past year. We've played with and against some of the best fighters this game has to offer. I feel that i have great insight into the flight mechanics and my experiences represent a large subset of mentalities within this game.


Our group Reign of Annihilation has logged thousands of player kills. We've done weekly training sessions to improve the piloting skills of our group. We are largely focused upon improving "fleet combat" as we call it within the Elite universe. We often can be seen supporting and assisting the player group The Inquisition(TIIQ), both in-game and on teamspeak.


When we finally do engage in PVP, we are often labeled as "griefers" and shunned by a large majority of players simply because they are either incapable of giving us a decent challenge, are either too afraid to engage us, or are unwilling to take up a banner to organize against us. This makes myself and many other PVPer's sad. If we are really being honest, the size of the PVP player-base within the universe is slowly fading. I've struggled to keep players interested in PVP and i've watched as many players only get enough of the game to fly a cobra in open and then are never to be seen or heard from again.


Many gamers, including myself, have waited years for a space simulation as open and wonderful as this. We had high hopes that player groups would be implemented into the game itself and that competitive play in the open world would be an element that FDEV would be more interested in supporting. As the flight logs have slowly filled this past year, and the days and months have gone by, i've watched many very, very skilled pilots get 'bored' of the game and disappear. They have either grown tired of the instancing issues, difficulty finding players to PVP, lack of reward to PVP, or any combination there-in. Put simply, the majority of PVPer's within the Elite universe are feeling alienated.


As i've struggled to keep people interested in PVP, and with the release of horizons we had high hopes of planetary combat. I read other player groups forums(Inquisition, CODE, Smiling Dog Crew, etc) and chat with them on teamspeak,i play the game daily, i keep up with what's going on with other player groups, and i feel that the Elite: Dangerous title is slowly but surely losing its best, most committed PVP players to the vast emptiness. I'm now at a point where i've tired of promoting "PVP in Elite." I and many other players are wanting to know, are our hopes of PVP support in open play(not CQC) in vain? Are we going to have to look elsewhere to find a place where we can participate in the glorious combat of large fleets clashing?


I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but if the Dev team is not interested in supporting player versus player combat in open, i would like to know if our efforts are in vain. If you don't want us here, we will be happy to go elsewhere.


Thanks,
AshesOfHegemony
Fleet Commander
Reign of Annihilation
http://ra-elitedangerous.enjin.com/

CC Zac Antonaci, Edward Lewis, Brett Cooper

No shortage of PvP in my experience, I have hostile encounters nearly every game session and ive been at it since beta.

 

[Eidolon]

Good for you, I don't expect you to stay in the same system to be killed over and over again
There are always fresh targets

But there won't always be fresh targets. That's the dark ominous cloud hanging over this thread.
I learned a year ago to only private group with my friends...
Listen to Vindicator Jones, Agony Aunt and especially Iskariot in regards to this. PvP will eventually eat itself.....

 

[Salami]

No shortage of PvP in my experience, I have hostile encounters nearly every game session and ive been at it since beta.

NPC encounters are not PvP, brother.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

But there won't always be fresh targets. That's the dark ominous cloud hanging over this thread.
I learned a year ago to only private group with my friends...
Listen to Vindicator Jones, Agony Aunt and especially Iskariot in regards to this. PvP will eventually eat itself.....

Sithism: They like to dominate the universe, but to achieve this, they kill what they want to dominate.
Empty victories: there will be none left to dominate.

And yes, an imperial with a brain: go figure.

 

[Jypson]

The Reason why ToC is currently wasting Brestla is because we are technically the enemies of them, Also they invited us to PvP their and be the bad guys, they said they were going to hire people to fight us, so they hired SDC whom are by far worse than ToC.

Obviously TIIQ then went and hid in their PG to avoid any conflict with ToC while the Open Traders got killed as they weren't their protecting their CG, though they got killed today because TIIQ let some ToC in their PG by accident...

lol, I have no idea what you just said

 

[the100thmonkey]

lol, I have no idea what you just said

Glad it wasn't just me.

 

[Achilles7]

Jesus said otherwise (something about turning cheeks), and last I checked, Catholics were Christian.

Bart Simpson also advocates turning cheeks, in accordance with Christian philosophy!
.
I appreciate that I have upped the ante in this argument & that one party is merely fictional...my mistake..all parties are fictional!

 

[Salami]

lol, I have no idea what you just said

Probably Yoda'ism: he makes no sense either. XD

 

[Scoopy Doopy]

Sorry did not mean it in that way.
its hard to express with dyslexia but I will try :

Most users who just use solo and group are cool , I have nothing against that or them in fact I encourage it due to the fact they are playing it there way.
however I noticed a trend of users ''exploiting'' (just my opinion) powerplay in solo to avoid conflict making defending a system impossible , however you could argue thats a powerplay issue.
But it is true that most dont do that


I do belive in the defence of the non PvPers that the pirates have it easy when it comes to bounties they are low and the local police takes a while to arive...
Its just that my dream in elite was to form a escort group with players and defend them against pirates and killers and the like.

While there may be some powerplay users using solo to "cheat the system" there is also an entire army of Xbox users changing things to their liking and you never, ever see them. Xbox and PC/Mac users share the same galaxy but are never instanced together, you are ware of that aren't you?

Oh, and it's good to dream but this game doesn't fulfill yours. I thought that was obvious.

 

[Martian Successor]

I don't want to see PvP die because I believe it adds a uniquely fun and exciting portion of the game play in ED - contrary to popular belief it actually contributes more towards cooperative play rather than the image of anti-social or aggressive player vs player engagements. You get people winging up and making squadrons to have pre arranged duels, i.e. to have a good time with other player wings and squadrons and it is an infinitely different feeling than going up against hordes of lifeless NPCs together. For some it's way more exhilarating, for others its not and for others still it's just alright.

The problem that I see is the etiquette and attitudes surrounding PvP and, as Vindicator Jones already very eloquently expressed, the simple fact is that PvPer's are entirely responsible for the attitudes towards PvP and how the community as a whole views PvPers. It's all about the etiquette of PvPers in-game and the behaviour that we witness from people that are outspoken about PvP in the forum that dictates our reaction to and view of PvP and those who enjoy playing the game that way.

Let me take, for example, some of your forms of expression to those that are not sold on PvP, Ashes - I don't mean this as a form of nitpicking on you though. It is just to make a point that hopefully you too will agree with.

Honestly, what we really want is more incentive to PVP. We want you non-PVPer's to come PVP us, and come to the realization PVP is actually REALLY fun. Right now we are just a bunch of 'space salt miners' versus a bunch of scrubs who can hardly survive against overpowered NPC's. Get better at pilotingand give us a challenge. That's what we want. There's no incentive to taking us down or becoming a better pilot. We refrain from killing "harmless and mostly harmless" players, but most players hardly even fly a cobra. If you don't want to PVP just fly only cobras...its a waste of our time to chase you.

The three pieces of text that I've highlighted are a representation of what I see as the main problem of PvPer's digging their own hole. A lot of PvPers express themselves like this and I see that as a problem because it portrays a very negative view of PvPers in general. When words like "scrubs" and sentences like "get better at piloting" and "If you don't want to PvP just play in Solo/Private/fly a certain ship/keep away from a certain system, ete, etc..." get thrown about it portrays a negative image of PvP. It sounds like PVPers are being the big cheese about town and pushing people around. Way too many PvPers are expressing themselves by telling other people how to play the game. Now when someone starts dictating to me how I should play the game in order to either get out of their way or join them then I start loosing interest in the validity of their argument because they are clearly not interested in a two way dialogue.

If PVP's reputation is to improve and if we are to interest more players back into Open (where PvP is at its most lively) then the people who make themselves the spokespersons for PVP by virtue of speaking out on the forums and those that practice PVP in-game need to have a better etiquette. Being more open, helpful and inviting rather than insulting, aggressive or pushy.

I hate seeing PVP die, but the basic truth is that PVP'ers are the cause of their own demise. Am I saying all of them? No.. but it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. I love PVP, I love the rush it gives, and that feeling you get after an epic battle, win or loose..

But the reality is, there are too many socially challenged morons out there in clippers, FDL's and other higher level ships blowing up cobra's, T-6's, Sidewinders for no apparent reason other than.. just cause.. And when anyone complains about it, PVPers say, well, if you dont like it go and play solo.. Well guess what.. THEY DID..

PVPers need to take SOME of the responsibility of whats happened to open, not just FD. Are ALL PVPers like this? no, of course not, there are some awesome PVP groups out there, and I have had fun with quite a few of them.

Pirating is one thing, but c'mon guys, how many times do we see the same thing.. some poor noob being blasted in erevate by some jerk for no really good reason. This is not an isolated problem.. this is not just happening every now and then.. it happens too much...

The biggest problem is that there is no in game punishment for people who choose to act this way, there are no penalties, there are no deterrents, and whenever people like me try and go into a system to teach these idiots a lesson, they either run or log, and the way that bounty hunting works right now, its completely useless to try and track them down.

They just blow themselves up, and bang.. slate wiped clean, only for them to go off and do the whole thing again...

I would love to see a more organized approach to hunting down "trouble makers" and that when they commit serious crimes, there are serious consequences that go with it.

Making someone think before they pull the trigger and weighing the pros and cons of killing another commander, and if its worth the trouble it will cause, is the first right step in making open a more populous place to be.

Very well said. And yes, it is very annoying when griefers keep on popping up in Eravate. Ghost Squadron bagged us some of those greifers a couple of days ago which was immensely satisfying But the whole run around of instancing and the griefers having no penalties on their ability to just vanish by exiting the game was annoying. Got one in the end though. Rest assured Ghost Squadron is watching.

I really have nothing to add to Jones' words except to re-state that I think the key to PvP's image is the etiquette and behaviour of those that engage in and promote PvP. It is in the hands of the people that play in Open and participate in PvP over how PvP is accepted across the community, will we work together as a community to make it a negative experience or a positive one?

 

[the100thmonkey]

Bart Simpson also advocates turning cheeks, in accordance with Christian philosophy!
.
I appreciate that I have upped the ante in this argument & that one party is merely fictional...my mistake..all parties are fictional!

I believe that I speak for all of us when I say that this thread doesn't actually exist.

 

[PsyaNyde]

I don't think it's fair to label pvp'ers in one group and blame them for their own demise, there's RP PvPers which are fine and generally play by a set of acceptable standards and then there's ' the others', griefers, bullies etc that just get kicks from ganging up and generally getting their jollies by ruining someone elses game, BUT, I don't blame them either, I fully blame FD, they are the ones that allowed this toxic behaviour to exist by not implementing safe zones, proper ai security and properly implemented fines/ seclusions etc for crimes commited. FD has allowed it to happen and fester and the result is now everyone looses, i'm no real pvper, but I have played games where I've decided to take a shortcut through known enemy / pirate systems to get good loot or save time, and getting chased down or even getting spotted sneaking through has given me a buzz. When you've jumped 30 systems in a weaponless new battleship , hyperjumping into the middle of no-where 50 times just trying to lose a group chasing you...AND you make it home to safe space! , well, it might take years from your life , but damn....it's a buzz
This game lacks that kind of experience

 

[Chris M Fortune]

Bart Simpson also advocates turning cheeks, in accordance with Christian philosophy!
.
I appreciate that I have upped the ante in this argument & that one party is merely fictional...my mistake..all parties are fictional!

I have to disagree, whilst the veracity of a certain jewish carpenter is yet to be confirmed the "philosophy" based on the stories that surround the life he had (fictitious or not) is real

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

I believe that I speak for all of us when I say that this thread doesn't actually exist.

So there is no spoon?.