An open email to FDEV from a hardened PVP Veteran...

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I have just been through every post in this 16 page thread and have yet to see an actual answer to the question posed very early on

Why dont pro-pvp groups just fight each other in open??

Not a single coherant answer - if they want pvp surely its the perfect solution
Or perhaps will a wing of 4 corvettes vs another wing of 4 corvettes gets too expensive very quickly?
But think of the rush - the buzz - the visceral excitement
Personally I think they dont want a fair fight, a balanced fight, equal odds - they want to see a weaker less geared opponent go pop and high five their wingmates

So go on - leet PVP endgamers - Why arent you challenging other leet PVP endgamers to a war???

I am really looking forward to your balanced reply
 
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Sorry did not mean it in that way.
its hard to express with dyslexia but I will try :

Most users who just use solo and group are cool , I have nothing against that or them in fact I encourage it due to the fact they are playing it there way.
however I noticed a trend of users ''exploiting'' (just my opinion) powerplay in solo to avoid conflict making defending a system impossible , however you could argue thats a powerplay issue.
But it is true that most dont do that


I do belive in the defence of the non PvPers that the pirates have it easy when it comes to bounties they are low and the local police takes a while to arive...
Its just that my dream in elite was to form a escort group with players and defend them against pirates and killers and the like.

> I hope you get your dream CMDR. However, I shall be in Solo, completely ignoring Power Play and the BGS :D
 
Sorry did not mean it in that way.
its hard to express with dyslexia but I will try :

Most users who just use solo and group are cool , I have nothing against that or them in fact I encourage it due to the fact they are playing it there way.
however I noticed a trend of users ''exploiting'' (just my opinion) powerplay in solo to avoid conflict making defending a system impossible , however you could argue thats a powerplay issue.
But it is true that most dont do that


I do belive in the defence of the non PvPers that the pirates have it easy when it comes to bounties they are low and the local police takes a while to arive...
Its just that my dream in elite was to form a escort group with players and defend them against pirates and killers and the like.
I get that, yes.
I too would like to see it more like this, but PvP'ers/Griefers are there, and so we need to deal with them, not here on the forum, but by ganging up on them, by griefing the greifers.
My moto: Don't get mad, get even, and preferably in such a way even hell itself would be ashamed.
 
> I hope you get your dream CMDR. However, I shall be in Solo, completely ignoring Power Play and the BGS :D
Thats fine. I hope you have fun.

Maybe if the AI gets better in the next patch there will be no need and I will have fun with the NPCs again.
 
Why dont pro-pvp groups just fight each other in open??
See, this I said a wee back in this thread.
This would be the solution, and over time, the ONLY way they can have a fight.
Others, by then, would have already left Open.
 
I get that, yes.
I too would like to see it more like this, but PvP'ers/Griefers are there, and so we need to deal with them, not here on the forum, but by ganging up on them, by griefing the greifers.
My moto: Don't get mad, get even, and preferably in such a way even hell itself would be ashamed.
Thats what I want to be ! I want to fight for those who cant fight !
if thats what you are planning count me in some day because that sounds like my cup of tea.
sins I play as a sort of space knight who goes ''town to town righting wrongs''
 
Meh. I'm a Solo kinda guy, so whatever floats your boat I say. Want PvE? Superb! Want PvP? Fantastic! Want just you and your mate? Why not?! Want to force people into a certain mode? Probably not going to work out the way you thought it would.

Don't think you read the posts properly mate. I am not advocating a PVE mode, nor am I dismissing it. I agree that you can play whatever mode you want, however you are failing to take into account the groups ofplayers that don't want to PvP, but DO want to encounter other people. They may not have a readymade group of mates to play with (the folk I know are largely FIFA/CoD players and to them I am the ubernerd of the group), there are quite a few people like this as can be seen from the forum posts of those looking for folk to play with without putting themselves at risk of being ganked. Not PvP'd, ganked.

I spout piracy as the perfect example since there is abolutely NO difference whatsoever in whether the pirate is player or NPC, it's gonna happen, someone WILL try and steal your cargo. The difference arises when a PLAYER makes a conscious decision to kill the target. A good pirate allows his target to live so that he may be robbed again...and again. Currently even NPC pirates seem to have given up and shoot first, scan later.

I'm not forcing anybody to play a certain mode, so why you are quoting me for this nonsensical statement is beyond even my capacity. I am merely offering suggestions as to how we could keep people playing together that want to play together. Solo is great and all, but it's damned lonely and frankly, the only action that defines players from NPC's is needless, unsanctioned murder. All other actions such as piracy, smuggling, trading, mining, bounty hunting are all devoid of the need to kill someone and part of the game...even in solo. NPC's will attempt those actions, as will players.

Again I state "the issue has not been caused by PvP'ers, it has been created by those who choose to grief others."

If you are complaining about the ability of players to steal your cargo solo is not the answer since NPC's are going to do it to you in solo as well. I suspect it's more a case of you not wanting *players* to be able to steal your cargo. Otherwise it simply boils down to not wanting to get killed. So why bother playing at all?

The only exception to this is powerplay which effectively allows you to engage in PvP outside of the game's selected career paths with hostile ships from another faction. Killing another player not involved in PP is.....yup, griefing. When players are following in-game careers like bounty hunting and piracy correctly there is no difference between a player ship and npc ship. If you have a bounty and are scared of being hunted, or cargo you don't want to lose the solution is to log out and play something else because those are *part of the game* and differentiating between players and NPC's at this juncture is irrelevant.

The only reason people aren't crying about NPC's performing all the same hunting/robbery actions is because they are, quite laughably, pathetic. I know for a fact that there's nothing in this game controlled by an NPC that's going to be able to take the cargo from my python. As mad as it sounds I welcome player pirates to come and try to take it, if nothing but for the adrenaline rush. The problem is that I know, along with many other players, that those three condas aren't here to take my cargo.....
 
Thats what I want to be ! I want to fight for those who cant fight !
if thats what you are planning count me in some day because that sounds like my cup of tea.
sins I play as a sort of space knight who goes ''town to town righting wrongs''
Well, we could try to make a "police clan" or "BH clan" and go "grief" the flying *censor* out of any PvP'er? XD
 
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I get that, yes.
I too would like to see it more like this, but PvP'ers/Griefers are there, and so we need to deal with them, not here on the forum, but by ganging up on them, by griefing the greifers.
My moto: Don't get mad, get even, and preferably in such a way even hell itself would be ashamed.

Then start a group and seperate forums and have people come to your forums and name and shame the griefers. Sounds like some serious emergent gameplay if you take up the banner! (just be warned, trying to find said griefers is nearly impossible due to PtP and instancing...but it will be nice to know someone out there is trying!)
 
Well, we could try to make a "police clan" or "BH clan" and go "grief" the flying *censor* out of any PvP'er? XD
What I want is to defend the traders , miners and new players , but not drive out the pirates or hunters. because being rude to them is a bit too much for me
 
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I have just been through every post in this 16 page thread and have yet to see an actual answer to the question posed very early on

OP wanted to know whether FD were interested in supporting PvP in Open.

A spurious proposition since PvP in Open is supported by the game itself.

However, when asked to clarify the OPs response was support for massive fleet battles.

Massive fleet battles are not possible due to the game's architecture, so OP is effectively asking if FD plan on completely redoing the game architecture, including additional costs as well as development efforts in order to support PvP.

I think we all know the answer to that one. OP hasn't returned to the thread since that post, but at least they now have their answer.

From here on out its just people probably going round in circular arguments about PvP (for the last erm.... 10+ pages probably).

I'd lock the thread just for that, but i've been involved in it too much. Have to leave it to one of the other mods as to whether they make that call.
 
Response to open thread from a hardened PVPer by another hardened PVPer:
>
Gee OP, there are PVP venues supported and in game already. No one will stop you or complain if you use them... but that's too easy, isn't it? You know, there are these things going on... I think they are called "wars", as well as the CQC, and CZs. Yeah, I know, it's no fun for you without the delicious taste of QQ.
>
Good luck trying to convince people to play the way YOU want them to. I wouldn't think badly of anyone who combat logged if cornered by your little street gang bunch. They have every right to play like they want to as well. If that means combat logging and/or going solo to pursue their "lives", then so be it.
 
The difference arises when a PLAYER makes a conscious decision to kill the target. A good pirate allows his target to live so that he may be robbed again...and again. Currently even NPC pirates seem to have given up and shoot first, scan later.
Problematic, and why I asked for a Cruise Locker system: if you do not KILL the target, he WILL get away.
a serious design flaw right there that I hoped to fix with a cruise interuption system, which OF COURSE got shot down before I could even post it.
For me this system was so the pirates could not run, if I was unable to kill them fast enough (which they often try).
It would be a more pacifistic system, I reckoned, but no, no one ever thought it a good idea.
And this again turns to "you HAVE to kill to get the loot".
 
FD for the year have not been able to fix the combat logging.
Do you believe that they can make PvP relevant?
This game PvE and PvE community.

Useless.
 
I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, but if the Dev team is not interested in supporting player versus player combat in open, i would like to know if our efforts are in vain. If you don't want us here, we will be happy to go elsewhere.

Nothing personal, but: Goodbye. I wish you luck.

To me, PvP has ruined so much of the game. And I don't mean griefers in open - they can easily be avoided. I mean the forced online play, the arcady flight model that impacts every command input to the ship, the over-the-top bounty system that punishes players for AI bugs, the endless, meaningless and annoying rebalancing of ships and game mechanics and so on.

It would appear that Frontier's "one size fits all" approach ultimately is to the detriment of every player type.
 
What I want is to defend the traders , miners and new players , but not drive out the pirates or hunters. because being rude to them is a bit too much for me
With all due respect, aren't they JUST AS RUDE?
Why would it be wrong to give them the same pleasure? ;)
The satanist in me says: an eye for a tooth, your skull for an aye.
Which, btw, is NOT satanic, it's even Catholic (the old laws).
 
Problematic, and why I asked for a Cruise Locker system: if you do not KILL the target, he WILL get away.
a serious design flaw right there that I hoped to fix with a cruise interuption system, which OF COURSE got shot down before I could even post it.
For me this system was so the pirates could not run, if I was unable to kill them fast enough (which they often try).
It would be a more pacifistic system, I reckoned, but no, no one ever thought it a good idea.
And this again turns to "you HAVE to kill to get the loot".

You could shoot out the FSD
 
Problematic, and why I asked for a Cruise Locker system: if you do not KILL the target, he WILL get away.
a serious design flaw right there that I hoped to fix with a cruise interuption system, which OF COURSE got shot down before I could even post it.
For me this system was so the pirates could not run, if I was unable to kill them fast enough (which they often try).
It would be a more pacifistic system, I reckoned, but no, no one ever thought it a good idea.
And this again turns to "you HAVE to kill to get the loot".


The problem with the cruise lock..is that it makes it even easier for the griefers to kill someone. So, yeah, large amount of negative feedback expected there!
 
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